1925 Citroen 5CV

[Ron McGr]

It is likely a scroll and thrower on the crankshaft without an oil seal. Maybe it simply has too much oil in the sump?

David, after taking the carby off to be rebuilt, I've pushed it in and out of the garage and there is oil everywhere. Looks like the crankcase and gearbox sump plugs seals are stuffed. That is where the oils is coming from. I'm starting to feel like a real idiot!

 

[David S]

Those drain plugs would be a good place to begin and hopefully easily corrected.

 

[Ron McGr]

Your Citroen or the car on the youtube link? He does actually pull that carby down and clean it out and shows you how it works. Did you like the big enrichment jet that is adjustable from the cabin ? The Citroen carby is probably more basic as the car is older.

Have not seen that, will have a look for it.

 

[DoubleChevron]

David, after taking the carby off to be rebuilt, I've pushed it in and out of the garage and there is oil everywhere. Looks like the crankcase and gearbox sump plugs seals are stuffed. That is where the oils is coming from. I'm starting to feel like a real idiot!

I'm not sure why you think that. You're talking about a car here that is nearly 100years old. Its a toy .... Go tinker with it!! Even if it was fully rebuilt 10years ago, it is entirely possible the the fuel system is gummed up and any seals (rope type ?) have dried out and started leaking. No doubt how to fix these issues are even in the owners handbook (old handbooks nearly described how to rebuild the car). That model A in the youtube video ... its fascinating, he fights the rope seal in the waterpump and oil leaks like you have the entire drive.

I'm sure if I asked my grandfather he would tell me you're probably supposed to service these old cars every 1000miles (after he tells me they were pieces of crap when they were new .... and they still will be today ).

Just enjoy tinkering with the old thing. If we wanted boring and reliable, we'd buy a modern plastic shitbox with a 7year warranty and throw it away every seven years.

 

[Greenpeace]

I'm sure if I asked my grandfather he would tell me you're probably supposed to service these old cars every 1000miles (after he tells me they were pieces of crap when they were new .... and they still will be today ).

Just enjoy tinkering with the old thing. If we wanted boring and reliable, we'd buy a modern plastic shitbox with a 7year warranty and throw it away every seven years.

My old Rover when new recommended castor based oils. 500 mile oil changes and the head off for a decoke every 3000 miles. The owner's manual even kindly pointed out the copper head gasket was reusable.
Owner's manual stated: check engine oil level daily, gearbox and diff levels every 300 miles. Grease and oil everything every 500 miles. It had 40 odd greasing points and about the same number of oiling points.
I must admit I wasn't that diligent as I figured they would have been driving on pretty shitty roads back then.

 

[Greenpeace]

Do be diligent oiling/greasing the engine accessories' bushes and bearings however. You won't forget the screeching sound of a dry magneto in a hurry.

 

[Ron McGr]

Today I managed to fit turn signal indicators from a tiny Honda 50cc motor bike on the car.
All 6 volt, no holes drilled any where on the car, apart from the rear of the dashboard.
Tomorrow I'll work on the brake light. All good, pics tomorrow

 

[DoubleChevron]

excellent. I've watched a few jay leno youtube videos where he says hes fitted "wireless" indicators/brake lights/tail lights to his vintage cars without drilling any holes or adding wiring (he does have cars worth enormous sums of money). There must be remote "rechargable" light systems you can attach these days that don't require modifications to you car.

seeya,
Shane l.

 

[Greenpeace]

Today I managed to fit turn signal indicators from a tiny Honda 50cc motor bike on the car.
All 6 volt, no holes drilled any where on the car, apart from the rear of the dashboard.
Tomorrow I'll work on the brake light. All good, pics tomorrow

Good stuff.

I bought an old radio on EBay a number of years ago and when the seller gave me his details it turned out to be a guy I knew.
When I went round to collect the radio he showed me a Model T he had just bought which was one family owned and recognised by the Model T community as one of the most original examples in the country.
He was in the middle of fitting motorcycle indicators to it by drilling big holes through the original paint on the top of the original guards.

 

[Ron McGr]

Good stuff.

I bought an old radio on EBay a number of years ago and when the seller gave me his details it turned out to be a guy I knew.
When I went round to collect the radio he showed me a Model T he had just bought which was one family owned and recognised by the Model T community as one of the most original examples in the country.
He was in the middle of fitting motorcycle indicators to it by drilling big holes through the original paint on the top of the original guards.

Oh No!

 

[Ron McGr]

Photos of the turn signal fittings, being new indicator lights and flasher can for a 6 volt M/C (Honda 50cc Monkey), and a switch unit intended for a tractor. I also fitted a pull/push switch next to the three way turn switch, to provide power. The hanging wires at the rear are for the m/c stop switch, that I'm fitting to the steel rods that pull the brakes on. Photo of the unit included. The power switch will stop the battery draining when the hand brake is on, as in this car, the hand brake is also on the rear brakes instead of the transmission brake.

 

[Greenpeace]

Photos of the turn signal fittings, being new indicator lights and flasher can for a 6 volt M/C (Honda 50cc Monkey), and a switch unit intended for a tractor. I also fitted a pull/push switch next to the three way turn switch, to provide power. The hanging wires at the rear are for the m/c stop switch, that I'm fitting to the steel rods that pull the brakes on. Photo of the unit included. The power switch will stop the battery draining when the hand brake is on, as in this car, the hand brake is also on the rear brakes instead of the transmission brake.

Doesn't the handbrake operate a separate set of shoes independent of the footbrake?
My old Rover had 4 brake shoes in each back drum. 2 for the foot brake and 2 for the hand brake and they weren't interconnected with each other.
The lights look good.

 

[Ron McGr]

Doesn't the handbrake operate a separate set of shoes independent of the footbrake?
My old Rover had 4 brake shoes in each back drum. 2 for the foot brake and 2 for the hand brake and they weren't interconnected with each other.
The lights look good.

I have just discovered that. The foot brake only operates the single brake behind the gear box. The hand brake, the rear wheels. To me that looks like it is the wrong way around. Surely the two rear brakes would be more effective than a singular one

 

[Greenpeace]

I have just discovered that. The foot brake only operates the single brake behind the gear box. The hand brake, the rear wheels. To me that looks like it is the wrong way around. Surely the two rear brakes would be more effective than a singular one

I had a Google and your brakes are the correct way around.
The transmission brakes work pretty well, my F250 has one and you cannot move the vehicle at all when it's on. The 351 just stops dead.

 

[Ron McGr]

Emptied the oil out of the sump and gearbox today. The washers are copper gasket sandwich ones. i.e., copper both sides and gasket material inside. So, while I'm waiting for the new ones to be made in Adelaide, I boiled the old ones, then polished both sides and put them back on the car. After they were boiled clean, the gasket thickness doubled in size and the copper came clean. Tomorrow I'll put some oil in and see if it still leaks from around the sump and gear box plugs. Still trying to work out how to fix the brake switch. I have a good idea on what to do. add a bolt on extension to where the brake pedal swivels, and attach it to that lever and the body. Untidy but cannot be seen from above.

 

[Greenpeace]

It's always fun trying to hide stuff on cars that never had it originally.
I had a 1924 Bean, I got some bulbs that are only amber when energised and put them inside the headlights along with some white ones for parkers, you can just make them out in the first photo.
On the back I got some wrinkle black motorcycle lights with smoked lenses. These had amber blinkers, and red parkers and brake lights built into them. You can see one of them in the second photo tucked under the beaver panel near the rear spring shackle.
All the extra wiring, flasher unit, fuse box and switches etc I put under the driver's seat.

 

[Greenpeace]

Photos of the turn signal fittings, being new indicator lights and flasher can for a 6 volt M/C (Honda 50cc Monkey), and a switch unit intended for a tractor. I also fitted a pull/push switch next to the three way turn switch, to provide power. The hanging wires at the rear are for the m/c stop switch, that I'm fitting to the steel rods that pull the brakes on. Photo of the unit included. The power switch will stop the battery draining when the hand brake is on, as in this car, the hand brake is also on the rear brakes instead of the transmission brake.

I've got the same brake light switch on my Douglas. I didn't legally need a brake light, but in this day and age.
You can tuck them away pretty well, and if you paint the zinc bits black they're not too obvious.

 

[Andrew Watkins]

I have just discovered that. The foot brake only operates the single brake behind the gear box. The hand brake, the rear wheels. To me that looks like it is the wrong way around. Surely the two rear brakes would be more effective than a singular one

This was a common arrangement in the day, especially pre WW1

Rolls Royce used it on the Silver Ghost until they went 4WB ( very late ) in the 20‘s

Transmission brakes are a bit rough in daily use. Brake linings also rather cheaper than crown/pinion

Andrew

 

[IDear]

I drive the B2 Citroen into town when the weather is good. The brakes are excellent for this small car.
I use the method of pulling the "handbrake" to slow down and as I do this, I already have my foot on the brake pedal ( transmission drum brake ) to bring the B2 to a stop.
This works well and doesn't put too much stress on the "drive - line".
Brother John's B2 has the brake handle and pedal swapped around.
You still need to use both systems, as to use just the one when stopping would put to much load on either the rear brakes or transmission drum brake.
The universal joint on the rear of the gearbox is a flexible canvas type so with heavy use it would need more maintenance.
Ofcourse it doesn't have the luxury of front wheel brakes, and hydraulic brakes were something of the future.
Michael

 

[DoubleChevron]

Photos of the turn signal fittings, being new indicator lights and flasher can for a 6 volt M/C (Honda 50cc Monkey), and a switch unit intended for a tractor. I also fitted a pull/push switch next to the three way turn switch, to provide power. The hanging wires at the rear are for the m/c stop switch, that I'm fitting to the steel rods that pull the brakes on. Photo of the unit included. The power switch will stop the battery draining when the hand brake is on, as in this car, the hand brake is also on the rear brakes instead of the transmission brake.

That looks quite ok. I'm all for doing absolutely anything possible to make them as safe as you can for driving on modern roads I find my eyes are always frantically going to the mirrors whenever I need to brake, even in my far more modern cars. The brake lights are quite small and feeble on our old cars compared to modern cars. Not to mention the traffic has usually panic braked infront of me because there is something to look at on the side of the road (eg: police car, flashing lights, accident....etc) .... It just takes a car doing a fast stop to look and no-one behind them looking in front.