First car being a Peugeot 205 GTi? Thoughts...
- Thread starter Zac_
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I thought about the 405MI16 too, but didn't mention it because it's not a hot hatch and the ones you can find now probably need attention. Dunno about the one for sale mentioned, maybe worth a look.
One thing I can say, the diesel versions seem to be very good and long lasting. I would get a diesel wagon in a heartbeat.
One thing I can say, the diesel versions seem to be very good and long lasting. I would get a diesel wagon in a heartbeat.
PS. There's a nice looking (I love the colour) Mi16 for sale for not much money in QLD from one of our frogger brothers on here.
Here's his rebuild thread:
Gumtree ad:
www.gumtree.com.au
And if you want to consider a 205Si, here's one:
www.gumtree.com.au
A bit rough, but not discouraging.
I was going to suggest, if you really want to stick with a 205GTI, get one that needs work, that way by the time you're finished you'll know it a little bit better before you put your foot down for the first time. Might get you in the right mindset for driving it as a daily.
Here's his rebuild thread:
Boden's 405 Mi16 Rescue
Hi all, Over the last few months during my coronavirus-induced unemployment I've been in the process of fixing up a '92 405 Mi16. I figured many of you would enjoy seeing the details behind this so I'll be documenting the work I've done so far, and the work to be done in the future. It first...
www.aussiefrogs.com
Gumtree ad:
Free local classified ads
Find Other Automotive ads. Buy and sell almost anything on Gumtree classifieds.
www.gumtree.com.au
And if you want to consider a 205Si, here's one:
1991 Peugeot 205 SI 1.6 | Other Automotive | Gumtree Australia Brisbane South East - Capalaba | 1313576464
If this ad is still up its available For sale is one 1991 Peugeot 205 SI with 16 GBDY engine and driveline Car is sold as is, unregistered and ..., 1313576464
www.gumtree.com.au
A bit rough, but not discouraging.
I was going to suggest, if you really want to stick with a 205GTI, get one that needs work, that way by the time you're finished you'll know it a little bit better before you put your foot down for the first time. Might get you in the right mindset for driving it as a daily.
My goodness, that's an absolute hassle! I'll have to quote you when I complain about SUVs and call them 'Wank Tanks' haha. Thanks for the alternatives, for some reason I've never really considered anything from Ford, might have to look into them a little more. Thanks!
Thanks. You also make a good point about buying one that needs work.PS. There's a nice looking (I love the colour) Mi16 for sale for not much money in QLD from one of our frogger brothers on here.
Here's his rebuild thread:
Boden's 405 Mi16 Rescue
Hi all, Over the last few months during my coronavirus-induced unemployment I've been in the process of fixing up a '92 405 Mi16. I figured many of you would enjoy seeing the details behind this so I'll be documenting the work I've done so far, and the work to be done in the future. It first...www.aussiefrogs.com
Gumtree ad:
Free local classified ads
Find Other Automotive ads. Buy and sell almost anything on Gumtree classifieds.
And if you want to consider a 205Si, here's one:
1991 Peugeot 205 SI 1.6 | Other Automotive | Gumtree Australia Brisbane South East - Capalaba | 1313576464
If this ad is still up its available For sale is one 1991 Peugeot 205 SI with 16 GBDY engine and driveline Car is sold as is, unregistered and ..., 1313576464
A bit rough, but not discouraging.
I was going to suggest, if you really want to stick with a 205GTI, get one that needs work, that way by the time you're finished you'll know it a little bit better before you put your foot down for the first time. Might get you in the right mindset for driving it as a daily.
4 wheels might be a minimum I'm guessing
I have to say I don't envy you. Within your budget there are many cars that on the face of it, seem wonderful buys. I don't know what I'd buy from a clean slate if I had your budget.
There are many cars that haven't been mentioned as yet. I have been fortunate in my life to have owned hundreds of cars and motorcycles, and driven/ridden thousands of others. On several occasions they were my "dream cars/bikes" only to find that much of the "dream" was actually hyperbole.
A car or bike is much more than the sum of its parts, the fastest isn't necessarily "the best", the same goes for the best handling, the smoothest, the quietest, the prettiest, the most technical etc, none of these things are capable on their own of making any vehicle the best to own. On occasion you'll drive a car or ride a bike that's just a nice place to be. Worst part is you can't put your finger on it, for whatever reason some vehicles just have that "je ne sais quoi".
Power is nice, but with all the cameras now, unless you go to the track, it is for the most part, useless. I have a modified 2300cc Triumph motorcycle that has more power than you could ever need as a daily ride. I actually don't enjoy riding it, it's fine to smoke the back tyre up on every now and again for a bit of of a buzz, but at 350 kg with a 240mm wide rear tyre it doesn't stop or corner particularly well. I have a couple of 125cc bikes I jump on and go for a burn around the local twisty mountain roads on, and have a great time.
Same with cars, I have a lovely '57 Studebaker, a '71 DS Citroen, a couple of early Minis, the supercharged Reliant 3 wheeler (that I put the photo up of for a joke earlier in the thread) a '66 Mustang, a '55 Austin, a '65, 351 Ford F250, an early Berlingo and a 6 cylinder, '71 Ford F100.ambulance.
Now I can't 100% tell you why, but if I was only allowed to keep (and had to daily drive) one of those vehicles (sorry AFers), it would be the old F100 ambulance.
It is just a pleasant, stress free place to be, it's competent at everything, plus it's easy and cheap to get parts for, and easy and simple to work on.
I've had some wonderful (and desirable) cars and bikes in the past, yet have no real desire to own the same vehicles again.
I guess the main thing I'm saying is, whatever you buy, and no matter how good everyone says the model of car is, make sure you take one for a real good drive first, cos you might f#cking hate it.
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Have had both 205GTI and original Clio Sport and I do support Phil H‘s comment.
Both are awesome cars, but Clio has more safety features and is more civilised
THe other thing to think about, especially as a young driver, is that the 205GTI is awesome fun, like a rocket powered rollerskate, but it will bite you if you get it wrong. You will find this out if you back off at speed in a corner.
I actually like cars which will bite me if I get it wrong, as it keeps me honest and paying attention, but it pays to have some experience on the edge before going there.
You would not go wrong with a Clio, apart from difficulty servicing it yourself, for which 205GTI has advantages. Downsides of GTI have been spellled out by those more competent than me, but searching the world for obscure body bits does wear thin after a while.
You need to also check the rear beam/axle on the Pug and the body is flexible and prone to cracks/rust, so you need to be sure to get a good one, especially as many have had close encounters with the scenery.
All this said, the car for which I pine is the 205GTI
Good luck with the quest
Andrew
Both are awesome cars, but Clio has more safety features and is more civilised
THe other thing to think about, especially as a young driver, is that the 205GTI is awesome fun, like a rocket powered rollerskate, but it will bite you if you get it wrong. You will find this out if you back off at speed in a corner.
I actually like cars which will bite me if I get it wrong, as it keeps me honest and paying attention, but it pays to have some experience on the edge before going there.
You would not go wrong with a Clio, apart from difficulty servicing it yourself, for which 205GTI has advantages. Downsides of GTI have been spellled out by those more competent than me, but searching the world for obscure body bits does wear thin after a while.
You need to also check the rear beam/axle on the Pug and the body is flexible and prone to cracks/rust, so you need to be sure to get a good one, especially as many have had close encounters with the scenery.
All this said, the car for which I pine is the 205GTI
Good luck with the quest
Andrew
Thanks. Certainly quite an amazing list of cars you touched on! I get what you mean about speed. I watched Chris Harris compare the a modern 911R vs the Pug GTI rallye and he mentioned that the experience was better in the Pug. He says “you could have as much fun in this thing as you can any car ever built”. I guess they say, “It is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow”.I have to say I don't envy you. Within your budget there are many cars that on the face of it, seem wonderful buys. I don't know what I'd buy from a clean slate if I had your budget.
There are many cars that haven't been mentioned as yet. I have been fortunate in my life to have owned hundreds of cars and motorcycles, and driven/ridden thousands of others. On several occasions they were my "dream cars/bikes" only to find that much of the "dream" was actually hyperbole.
A car or bike is much more than the sum of its parts, the fastest isn't necessarily "the best", the same goes for the best handling, the smoothest, the quietest, the prettiest, the most technical etc, none of these things are capable on their own of making any vehicle the best to own. On occasion you'll drive a car or ride a bike that's just a nice place to be. Worst part is you can't put your finger on it, for whatever reason some vehicles just have that "je ne sais quoi".
Power is nice, but with all the cameras now, unless you go to the track, it is for the most part, useless. I have a modified 2300cc Triumph motorcycle that has more power than you could ever need as a daily ride. I actually don't enjoy riding it, it's fine to smoke the back tyre up on every now and again for a bit of of a buzz, but at 350 kg with a 240mm wide rear tyre it doesn't stop or corner particularly well. I have a couple of 125cc bikes I jump on and go for a burn around the local twisty mountain roads on, and have a great time.
Same with cars, I have a lovely '57 Studebaker, a '71 DS Citroen, a couple of early Minis, the supercharged Reliant 3 wheeler (that I put the photo up of for a joke earlier in the thread) a '66 Mustang, a '55 Austin, a '65, 351 Ford F250, an early Berlingo and a 6 cylinder, '71 Ford F100.ambulance.
Now I can't 100% tell you why, but if I was only allowed to keep (and had to daily drive) one of those vehicles (sorry AFers), it would be the old F100 ambulance.
It is just a pleasant, stress free place to be, it's competent at everything, plus it's easy and cheap to get parts for, and easy and simple to work on.
I've had some wonderful (and desirable) cars and bikes in the past, yet have no real desire to own the same vehicles again.
I guess the main thing I'm saying is, whatever you buy, and no matter how good everyone says the model of car is, make sure you take one for a real good drive first, cos you might f#cking hate it.
I think one amazing thing about Adelaide is that there’s plenty of roads to have fun on within the speed limit - a mix of generous speed limits and very windy roads. See the photo attached with an 80km/h limit. This is the only road I can think of where you can see multiple corners, just to show you.
Here’s the link if anyone else is interested to Chris Harris comparing the 911R to a Peugeot 205 Rallye:
Attachments
Thanks for the insight Andrew. I think it’s definitely worth waiting to get a 205 for when I’m a little older and wiser… in all aspects.
From all the amazing car ideas that people have presented, I’ve narrowed it down to a couple ones. Sorry to anyones ideas I’ve put aside, I very much value your input! At the moment the toss up is between a Clio and an early 2000s Mini Cooper S. They mainly set the middle ground for safety, fun, practicality, and similarity to the 205. I think any 2 seaters would be too impractical for me.
I have seen a lot about the minis being rife with issues, but am not too familiar with Clios.
Does anyone have any opinions on the Clio 172 vs 182 models in terms of how they drive? I thought Jeremy Clarkson‘s review of the 182 was pretty funny
The poogoe and renault hot hatches would be mind blowing from a performance perspective... and much more reliable than the 1.6turbo fitted to all the later carsThanks for the insight Andrew. I think it’s definitely worth waiting to get a 205 for when I’m a little older and wiser… in all aspects.
From all the amazing car ideas that people have presented, I’ve narrowed it down to a couple ones. Sorry to anyones ideas I’ve put aside, I very much value your input! At the moment the toss up is between a Clio and an early 2000s Mini Cooper S. They mainly set the middle ground for safety, fun, practicality, and similarity to the 205. I think any 2 seaters would be too impractical for me.
I have seen a lot about the minis being rife with issues, but am not too familiar with Clios.
Does anyone have any opinions on the Clio 172 vs 182 models in terms of how they drive? I thought Jeremy Clarkson‘s review of the 182 was pretty funny
I went to a caryard last year to take a manual transmission Fiat Panda with the Twinair engine for a drive. Not because I wanted to buy it, but to see if the Twinair engine lived up to the hype piled on it by (it seems) every motor journalist that has driven one.
Not praise from an outright performance perspective, but rather from the fun factor it apparently gives both the Panda and the 500 that it is fitted to. Manual Twinair 500s are thin on the ground, there's only 2 on Carsales at present.
The caryard had taken a deposit on the Panda by the time I got there, so they wouldn't let me drive it.
Has anyone driven one? Even the performance orientated journalists refer to the Twinair equipped 500 as an "addictive drive". One even described it as: "as big a shake up to small car sector as the original Mini was". High praise indeed.
Not praise from an outright performance perspective, but rather from the fun factor it apparently gives both the Panda and the 500 that it is fitted to. Manual Twinair 500s are thin on the ground, there's only 2 on Carsales at present.
The caryard had taken a deposit on the Panda by the time I got there, so they wouldn't let me drive it.
Has anyone driven one? Even the performance orientated journalists refer to the Twinair equipped 500 as an "addictive drive". One even described it as: "as big a shake up to small car sector as the original Mini was". High praise indeed.
I'd never heard of them.... If I need to find a car for the next daughter I might look for one of them. its not the 1.6 like the minis I previously looked at.I went to a caryard last year to take a manual transmission Fiat Panda with the Twinair engine for a drive. Not because I wanted to buy it, but to see if the Twinair engine lived up to the hype piled on it by (it seems) every motor journalist that has driven one.
Not praise from an outright performance perspective, but rather from the fun factor it apparently gives both the Panda and the 500 that it is fitted to. Manual Twinair 500s are thin on the ground, there's only 2 on Carsales at present.
The caryard had taken a deposit on the Panda by the time I got there, so they wouldn't let me drive it.
Has anyone driven one? Even the performance orientated journalists refer to the Twinair equipped 500 as an "addictive drive". One even described it as: "as big a shake up to small car sector as the original Mini was". High praise indeed.
Even though I work in the industry you mentioned, I am stupid enough to spend my own money on all sorts automotive insanity.I went to a caryard last year to take a manual transmission Fiat Panda with the Twinair engine for a drive. Has anyone driven one? Even the performance orientated journalists refer to the Twinair equipped 500 as an "addictive drive". One even described it as: "as big a shake up to small car sector as the original Mini was". High praise indeed.
So I owned a Panda for about 2 years from new in 2014. Panda Twin Air Easy manual. Yes it is a cracker, but after 11,000km of doing all sorts of silly things with it like fitting a towbar and towing a camper Sydney-Mildura and back, trying various tuning chips (didn't do much), fitting Ritmo (16in?) alloys, I was expecting it to be the all-round hot hatch it never was meant to be. Plastics looked like they were not going to last, 1st gear seemed to run out puff quickly and while it was a tardis, it was also a small car. Its crash safety rating was revised, from memory, from acceptable to f-ing dangerous. I saw that well after I sold it.
This was one of 2 brand-new cars I have ever owned, and it went a long way towards why I liked it. They were something like $22K list at launch, and by the time I bought mine they were trying to dump stock. I paid $10,500 with a UVP from a Melbourne dealer, so about $12K in NSW with 12 months rego. It was brand new MY13, with 11km on the clock. That kind of deal would never happen now.
I am enjoying this thread, also wanted to say Greenpeace what you mentioned about finding a car you like (not that everyone else likes) is really important. Unless you are buying something that you don't really care how it drives, go drive it, and drive more than one if you can.
I bought a 605 on what everyone else said (no, actually, raved) about them, and I just could get the enthusiasm for it, even though it was very pretty to look at and ride/handling was sublime. It was the over-assisted power steer and gutless engine response that I just couldn't warm to. It was a car I really wanted to like but just could not. Yet if I found a nice 604, it would be different - I think. Pretty much same gutless engine but its the nostalgia.
What you mentioned about motoring journos. Sometimes I get the feeling that readers think they are some kind of Oracle (or should be) but remember what you are paying for (actually, strictly speaking you get it for free) is their opinion. That's all. Some have an ego that would suggest their opinion counts and no others do, but really it's actually all perspective. I tend to follow journos whose opinions I trust or at least can see why they came up with that opinion.
I just bought a 308 GTi 270. I am old enough to know better, but after a 1987 Swift GTi, 1982 Golf GTI and 1990 AX GT there is something very addictive about a hot hatch. No, the AX GT was not actually a hot hatch, but almost there.
The number that they actually bought in was 85, i have no 27 of 85
I mentioned the journalist reviews more on the consensus of opinion on the Twinair engine's character and performance rather than taking every word they said as gospel. There may have been negative reviews on that engine, but I've never seen one?
Motorcycle testers raved about the first R1 Yamahas. A couple of mates bought them, I had a full power 1200 Yamaha V-Max at the time. I took one of my mates R1s for a spin and added it to the list of vehicles I had no desire to own, I hated it..
It was fast and had good top end power, but it was uncomfortable, it had terrible head shake when you shifted up under full power and it sounded like any other 4 cylinder sport bike. The V-Max was comfortable, rock solid under full power, had strong power delivery all the way through the rev range, and the V4 engine sounded awesome. Acceleration up to about 180 kph was about the same, but the R1 would nudge 300 kph where the V-Max was geared to around 240 kph. But who cares, either of those top speeds would have you walking if you got caught doing them anyway.
The motor is the heart of a motorcar or motorcycle, and if it has no character it soon becomes boring no matter how fast it is.
Out of the countless vehicles I've driven/ridden the shortlist of "holy sh#t, I didn't expect that" vehicles are:
A genuine, unmolested E49 Charger.
A twin shock CBX1000, 6 cylinder Honda.
My 2300cc Triumph Rocket 3.
The 550cc supercharged Subaru Rex previously mentioned.
The little Subaru had no right to drive like it did with a 1/2 litre engine.
Funny part is, it wasn't even "top of the kei car heap" when it was new. The 5 valve per cylinder Mitsubishi Dangan Turbo held that title, and by a clear margin, with its 3 cylinder 550cc engine. But who knows, to actually drive one could be like the R1 anecdote, "yeah it's fast but........"Drive before you buy, and drive more than one is good advice, particularly with older cars, they don't all drive the same.
Some of them were actually garbage when new and time hasn't improved that situation. Yesterday's desirable car can become today's dinosaur quite easily - V12 on 4 carbs and barely better than 10mpg anyone? I have sat in a few of my 'hero' cars at auctions and elsewhere and without even a need to drive them or think about the maintenance headaches of owning, immediately realised they really were not that great or seriously flawed. Even the same model can vary, especially the original vs slightly improved. The original versions can be quite ordinary vs a car that's had a few upgrades. Every Citroen XM I have ever encountered seems slightly different to the next one and some I have liked better than others. Some cars just feel much better as a package than others that present as much the same.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time with a friend's then near new Honda CRX in the 1990's. It is smaller than any car I've ever owned, a fun car to drive and great for the shopping with the hatchback design, but I never felt especially comfortable with so little body behind me.
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As Greenpeace implies - it's horses for courses, and you should never take another's word on whether a car (or bike) will suit you.
Re. the 605 - I thought it was really only Patrick (pj810) that raved about his 605, although Robert (BigRR) always says he regrets selling his.
It most certainly is not a sporty car, but at the time I bought mine I was driving 200km to Tenterfield after work on Friday, then back at the end of the weekend. It's a relatively flat run along the tablelands, and not very windy. The 605 was great for that sort of trip, and probably protected my license compared to a faster, more fire-breathing means of transport.
Re. the 605 - I thought it was really only Patrick (pj810) that raved about his 605, although Robert (BigRR) always says he regrets selling his.
It most certainly is not a sporty car, but at the time I bought mine I was driving 200km to Tenterfield after work on Friday, then back at the end of the weekend. It's a relatively flat run along the tablelands, and not very windy. The 605 was great for that sort of trip, and probably protected my license compared to a faster, more fire-breathing means of transport.
Yes, absolutely. I didn't mean that everyone else's perception is wrong, just that for me the 605 didn't work. I just wanted to love it like others did. Also how you use a car can influence it. A hot hatch for living in the Adelaide hills (or even a 605 for that matter) well hell yeah. But only driving a car like a 605 to local shows in the city (as I didn't want to add too much to its super-low km) was a waste of its talents, no doubt, and in fact probably showed it in its worst light.