First car being a Peugeot 205 GTi? Thoughts...

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Zac_

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Tadpole
Tadpole
Joined
Apr 25, 2023
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Adelaide
Hello everyone! So the past couple of years since I got my driver's license, I've been thinking and looking for a cool qwerky first car. I've zeroed in on the Peugeot 205 GTi. I mean I just love them so much! Everyone talks about their handling being out of this world and how fun they are to drive. Plus they look so good, whilst also being very understated, and to the untrained almost looking like a shitbox (according to my friends).

An important point is that I intend on owning the car my entire life.

.... but every now and again I get this awful feeling that it's a bad idea to get one as a first car, and I should consider another car like the early 2000s Mini Cooper S (R53 specifically). I worry that I'll have huge problems with the Pug 205 and it will become an absolute nightmare, breaking the bank, and my mind! To even consider an engine rebuild is scary and I wouldn't even know the costs involved in that. I am really attracted to the zippy cars with go-cart-like handling that are a pleasure to drive the twisty roads in. I have budgeted 5k every year for maintenance/problems.

For things that help my cause:
- I'm at university staying at home
- My parents bicycle to work (I can drive their cars when the pug isn't working)
- I can essentially walk the car to the local mechanic
- Even though it will be my 'daily' I ride my bike most places
- Parents have offered to go halves (so long as they get to drive it too, but it's 'my' car) <- I pay for the costs of maintenance, insurance, rego etc.
- 20-25k Budget

Things that are bad:
- I have very little knowledge about car mechanics and doing things myself when things go wrong :(
- 205 market seems to be a little inflated so I don't know what a reasonable price to pay for one is.


Cars I've considered are:
- Peugeot 205 GTi
- 2002-2005 Mini Cooper S (Cheap!)
- Suzuki Cappucino, Honda Beat (WAY too Impractical and I think I could outgrow these cars quickly)
- Pre-2000 Mini (My favorite cars in terms of looks, but I worry these lack the power to enjoy driving properly around the Adelaide hills in)

A side note, I've met someone who actually owns both a 205 GTi and a 2002 Mini Cooper S and been for a ride in both. The Mini is a much faster car and the owner said I should consider the Mini a bit more, but I tell you what, that Pug just FEELS faster. You just have this sense that you are going so quickly when you aren't, and I love it.

Anyway, sorry this was a long read. Just seeking feedback on what people think I do, and if they have any opinions to share. Be honest, be brutal. I need it.
 
I'll contribute a few thoughts.

First a disclaimer: I've never owned or driven a 205GTI.

I have owned two 206GTIs and currently have a 206GTI180.

I have felt the appeal of the 205GTI. It really does have something about the visual design. There are a few negatives though.
Cost is high for what they are. They are all pretty old now and finding one that hasn't been 'enjoyed' a little too much may be difficult. You will probably need someone with good mechanical experience to help you locate the right one - and it may take some time and effort.

Be aware that they don't have the safety equipment of the more modern cars. If I have it correct there are no airbags at all in there, for example.

You mention a nearby mechanic. How does he feel about Peugeots? Most mechanics I come across are totally paranoid about anything french and either don't want to touch it or make a mess of it when they do and charge too much for the mess.

I think if you want to get one of these and have it for life it would be in your best interests to learn some mechanics yourself.

It looks like you have realised there will be some downtime with the vehicle. Parts are probably available, but may take time to order and arrive before repairs and maintenance can be done.

When you think about a car being fun to drive it pays to think about what makes it fun and when it is fun. Fast cars sometimes become most fun well on the wrong side of the speed limit. An otherwise fun car isn't very pleasant on a hot day if the aircon doesn't work.

I can't say much about the minis - other than I know BMW have had heaps of issues with their 1.6 engines. The 205's engine is pretty bulletproof.

If you want to go a little more practical, the 206GTI and 206GTI180 offer a lot of the same things as the 205 and have more power and modern safety and features, whilst the cost a lot less money and are easier to maintain. I do understand the pull of the 205's looks though.

Just a few thoughts that I hope help you with your decisions.

Kim
 
KimHowe said:
I'll contribute a few thoughts.

First a disclaimer: I've never owned or driven a 205GTI.

I have owned two 206GTIs and currently have a 206GTI180.

I have felt the appeal of the 205GTI. It really does have something about the visual design. There are a few negatives though.
Cost is high for what they are. They are all pretty old now and finding one that hasn't been 'enjoyed' a little too much may be difficult. You will probably need someone with good mechanical experience to help you locate the right one - and it may take some time and effort.

Be aware that they don't have the safety equipment of the more modern cars. If I have it correct there are no airbags at all in there, for example.

You mention a nearby mechanic. How does he feel about Peugeots? Most mechanics I come across are totally paranoid about anything french and either don't want to touch it or make a mess of it when they do and charge too much for the mess.

I think if you want to get one of these and have it for life it would be in your best interests to learn some mechanics yourself.

It looks like you have realised there will be some downtime with the vehicle. Parts are probably available, but may take time to order and arrive before repairs and maintenance can be done.

When you think about a car being fun to drive it pays to think about what makes it fun and when it is fun. Fast cars sometimes become most fun well on the wrong side of the speed limit. An otherwise fun car isn't very pleasant on a hot day if the aircon doesn't work.

I can't say much about the minis - other than I know BMW have had heaps of issues with their 1.6 engines. The 205's engine is pretty bulletproof.

If you want to go a little more practical, the 206GTI and 206GTI180 offer a lot of the same things as the 205 and have more power and modern safety and features, whilst the cost a lot less money and are easier to maintain. I do understand the pull of the 205's looks though.

Just a few thoughts that I hope help you with your decisions.

Kim
Click to expand...
How about a RenaultSPORT Clio? I would argue that they are every bit as good as the equivalent Peugeots and better that the Minis. They are also likely to be cheaper to buy and maintain. (I owned one of the original 85 RS Clio 172s for many years and still regard it as the best car that I have ever owned)
 
I've had lots of 205GTIs - I love them. My first was used as a daily driver back in the early 2000's. Mechanically, there is nothing exotic about them - they are pretty simple and robust. However, I would see a couple of downsides to using one as a daily driver:
  • As I'm sure you know by now, the interior plastics are terrible and there are no repro parts available. It is a constant battle with plastics cracking and trying to repair or source decent replacements.
  • Lots of external trim parts are now getting hard to find as well. Someone backed into mine and it took over a year to source a replacement front bumper in good condition.
  • The AC is complete rubbish.
  • Safety. No ABS or modern safety aids mean there is nothing to save you in a 205 if you make a mistake. And I would not want to be in a crash in a 205. Even by the standards of 30 years ago, their safety levels were not good. This issue has really come home to me recently as I was involved in my first ever significant crash last month. Luckily I was driving a fairly new BMW X5. The seatbelt pre-tensioners and all the airbags deployed, and the front of the car crumpled exactly as it should. I (and my son!) walked away with nothing more than a big scare and a bruise on my thumb from the airbag deployment. If I had been in the same crash in my 205, I believe I would be dead. At the very least, I would have been very seriously injured, and I would probably have killed or maimed my son. It has really made me reassess how and how much I use my classic cars.
I understand the desire for a cool first car - my first car was a genuine Mk2 Morris Cooper S. I have no idea how I survived!

The modern Mini is not the classic that that 205 is, but I expect it would be vastly safer. If you were my son, I would be encouraging you very strongly to go for the modern Mini - still fun to drive, and so much more to save you when you or the other person eventually makes a mistake.
 
Imagine this in a 205...

1691026596543.jpeg
 
Ouch, I also cart my family around in an X5. Glad to hear it served you well. I really only drive myself in the 80s plastic box! Although with its plastic guards I do call the X5 a big Bx!

I agree that with the price of 205s these days you can get a very fun/fast and competent safer car as a first car.
 
Also consider the X5 feels small compared to some utes these days. This is it next to the Bx...imagine a 205!


IMG_4279.jpg
 
I really like the early 2000s Mini Coopers as well (before they got fat). I can't help noticing many for sale have a list as long as your arm of repairs carried out. I would certainly be hesitant on buying one that didn't come with a long list of work completed, as most likely, all those repairs need to be done (or soon will). My nephew had a supercharged 2003? model and he was forever fixing it. Not sure on SA's licencing but in QLD you can't drive a boosted version of the Mini on your P plates.
If you are allowed to drive a turbo and want something a little different how about a 2018- Nissan Juke Nismo? 160 kw, and 280 nm in the 6 speed manual version. The manual is FWD with a LSD.
Most testers describe the Juke "like a hot hatch" to drive. Platform is shared with the Renault Captur. My wife had the 140 kW 6 speed manual Juke STS for 6 years and absolutely loved it, she only sold it because she got a company car. Never had an issue with it, they are also a timing chain engine, so no cambelt to worry about.
The Jukes were very popular in France due to their quirkyness.
You can pick up a very low km Nismo in the low $20K range. There's a couple on carsales at the moment.
Just a thought.🤷‍♂️
 
Anyone interested in a (modern) Mini Cooper should look at a Citroen DS3 DSport with the same turbo engine and a six speed manual box. It would be cheaper, more comfortable, and just as able to be chucked about in corners. They are great fun to drive.

Neither the Mini nor the Cit would be a lifetime proposition unless the mileage is controlled.
 
I know pretty much nothing about 205 GTis. However, they are now very old cars and, to paraphrase others, will most likely have problems that crop up necessitating them being off the road for various lengths of time and parts can be/are hard to get. Them there is the safety, or lack thereof, aspect to consider.

Is this a car that would be much better as one that is tucked away under cover, taking the role for use on an occasional weekend drive to somewhere?
 
If you want a 205GTi ... go for it. Worse case, it breaks down and you have your parents car to still drive. no big deal :)
 
I actually think the reliability point is in the 205s favour compared to a modern complex car 😂
 
I’m only ever trusted with the Activa 😳

Edit. P.s it’s the X5 that breaks down not the Bx 😂
 
You will pick up a few speeding tickets....I sold my 206 because of this. The zippiness draws you in.
 
Dave said:
Also consider the X5 feels small compared to some utes these days. This is it next to the Bx...imagine a 205!


View attachment 225410
Click to expand...

we got the boss women a little 2 door poogoe to drive ..... The damn thing is the widest car I've ever driven. It measures about 2.2meters from mirror to mirror. A squeeze for a 2.5meter wide roller door.... or carpark to open the doors
 
The OP did mention a couple of JDM Kei class sports cars too. The JDM Kei car hatchback market was/is hotly contested as well. If there was a technological advancement to be had they found a way to stick it in these pocket rockets. Don't let the mandated kW limit fool you, I think some shenanigans went on there. Turbos, superchargers, AWD, DOHC, 5 valves per cylinder.
I had a 550cc supercharged intercooler Subaru Rex (same body as our Fiori). It ran mid 16s at Willowbank over the quarter mile, would pull 8000 rpm in 5th gear which equated to 180 kph and would fly up the Toowoomba Range at 100 kph in 5th gear at 1/2 throttle with the ice cold AC on. It was an absolute hoot to drive. I haven't driven a later 660cc Kei car but I couldn't imagine they are any less fun if it is a perfomance orientated version.🤷‍♂️
 
KimHowe said:
I'll contribute a few thoughts.

First a disclaimer: I've never owned or driven a 205GTI.

I have owned two 206GTIs and currently have a 206GTI180.

I have felt the appeal of the 205GTI. It really does have something about the visual design. There are a few negatives though.
Cost is high for what they are. They are all pretty old now and finding one that hasn't been 'enjoyed' a little too much may be difficult. You will probably need someone with good mechanical experience to help you locate the right one - and it may take some time and effort.

Be aware that they don't have the safety equipment of the more modern cars. If I have it correct there are no airbags at all in there, for example.

You mention a nearby mechanic. How does he feel about Peugeots? Most mechanics I come across are totally paranoid about anything french and either don't want to touch it or make a mess of it when they do and charge too much for the mess.

I think if you want to get one of these and have it for life it would be in your best interests to learn some mechanics yourself.

It looks like you have realised there will be some downtime with the vehicle. Parts are probably available, but may take time to order and arrive before repairs and maintenance can be done.

When you think about a car being fun to drive it pays to think about what makes it fun and when it is fun. Fast cars sometimes become most fun well on the wrong side of the speed limit. An otherwise fun car isn't very pleasant on a hot day if the aircon doesn't work.

I can't say much about the minis - other than I know BMW have had heaps of issues with their 1.6 engines. The 205's engine is pretty bulletproof.

If you want to go a little more practical, the 206GTI and 206GTI180 offer a lot of the same things as the 205 and have more power and modern safety and features, whilst the cost a lot less money and are easier to maintain. I do understand the pull of the 205's looks though.

Just a few thoughts that I hope help you with your decisions.

Kim
Click to expand...
Thanks for your thoughts!
 
Richard W said:
I've had lots of 205GTIs - I love them. My first was used as a daily driver back in the early 2000's. Mechanically, there is nothing exotic about them - they are pretty simple and robust. However, I would see a couple of downsides to using one as a daily driver:
  • As I'm sure you know by now, the interior plastics are terrible and there are no repro parts available. It is a constant battle with plastics cracking and trying to repair or source decent replacements.
  • Lots of external trim parts are now getting hard to find as well. Someone backed into mine and it took over a year to source a replacement front bumper in good condition.
  • The AC is complete rubbish.
  • Safety. No ABS or modern safety aids mean there is nothing to save you in a 205 if you make a mistake. And I would not want to be in a crash in a 205. Even by the standards of 30 years ago, their safety levels were not good. This issue has really come home to me recently as I was involved in my first ever significant crash last month. Luckily I was driving a fairly new BMW X5. The seatbelt pre-tensioners and all the airbags deployed, and the front of the car crumpled exactly as it should. I (and my son!) walked away with nothing more than a big scare and a bruise on my thumb from the airbag deployment. If I had been in the same crash in my 205, I believe I would be dead. At the very least, I would have been very seriously injured, and I would probably have killed or maimed my son. It has really made me reassess how and how much I use my classic cars.
I understand the desire for a cool first car - my first car was a genuine Mk2 Morris Cooper S. I have no idea how I survived!

The modern Mini is not the classic that that 205 is, but I expect it would be vastly safer. If you were my son, I would be encouraging you very strongly to go for the modern Mini - still fun to drive, and so much more to save you when you or the other person eventually makes a mistake.
Click to expand...
Wow, this is a very sobering comment. Thank you. It isn’t really what I wanted to see, but definitely what I needed. You’ve definitely changed my mind on a 205, at least as my first car and as an everyday. It’s easy to see people taking about them having zero safety features and being rather unsafe cars and just brush it aside. But when you consider and see the difference and it can make like with your X5, it really brings it to reality. Glad you and your son have come away from the accident unscathed. Maybe I’ll let you know if your advice saves my life in the future. I showed your comment to my Dad and he said to say thank you on his behalf too! You’ve quote “changed my mind on the order of your car purchases”. My Dad used to ride motorbikes at my age, so I think he was glad that I was not following his footsteps haha. Once again, thanks for your advice.
 
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