Tyres

[LettCat]

Interesting topic.in it is coming when I was thinking of writing about tyres and how the new thread is going down.and I would like opinions from people who bought tyres recently.
I had to buy new tyres for my Peugeot 2008 SUV and for my daughter Peugeot 4007.i got Michelin 195x60 16 for the my Peugeot 2008 and fallen 215x70 16 for the Peugeot 4007.the new tyres have much lower thread than it was to be5 years a go when I bought tyres.for some reason they look like 70 present of what they used to be few years ago.
It remind me of the Cadbury chocolate who did years ago ,changing the chocolate block from 200g to 180g without changing the price.
I did mention it to my friend who recently got some new tyres for his wife Toyota rav4,and he agrees with me.
Are there any regulations?
Or is it free wild market?

Or it is w8ild market.

If in the case of chocolate it's not scary, in the case of tires it can be life-threatening. Did I understand correctly that tires of the same model don't look the same? Or is it a different model?

 

[4cvgordini]

Of possible interest given some of the above discussion.

2023 ADAC Summer Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

It's the 50th anniversary of the ADAC tyre test, and to celebrate the German automotive body have tested fifty summer tyres in the popular 205/55 R16 tyre size, and have included wear testing for ...

www.tyrereviews.com

 

[Greenpeace]

If in the case of chocolate it's not scary, in the case of tires it can be life-threatening. Did I understand correctly that tires of the same model don't look the same? Or is it a different model?

What the discussion was about is that some brands/models of NEW tyres have less tread depth than others. The concern was more around whether the tyre manufacturers were doing it to reduce their production cost, while still charging the consumer the same price (or more) for a product that may not last as long.

 

[Froggy Pete]

Maybe I am driving sensibly now but did get an amazing 105,000km from first set of Michelin tyres on my Japanese daily driver.

 

[Greenpeace]

Maybe I am driving sensibly now but did get an amazing 105,000km from first set of Michelin tyres on my Japanese daily driver.

My son and his wife have a manual 2015 turbo diesel Nissan Dualis that they bought new and they both drive it like they stole it. I have lost count of the sets of tyres and brake rotors/pads they have fitted, but it's several of each, the vehicle has just under 200K on it and it's also had one clutch and one turbo replaced.
My wife bought a manual turbo petrol Nissan Juke new in the same year. The factory Kumho tyres were replaced at the 90K service, they weren't on the wear indicators but the dealer told my wife they probably wouldn't make it to the 105K service. She sold the vehicle last year with 130K on the clock still running on its original brakes, and had zero mechanical issues.
A bit of sympathetic driving goes a long way.

 

[Whippet]

Of possible interest given some of the above discussion.

2023 ADAC Summer Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

It's the 50th anniversary of the ADAC tyre test, and to celebrate the German automotive body have tested fifty summer tyres in the popular 205/55 R16 tyre size, and have included wear testing for ...

www.tyrereviews.com

Hi.

Have Goodyear head hunted some of the materials and design engineers from Continental and Michelin? The GY Efficient Grip Performance 2, was nominated as the best tyre in the test. We have the two generations earlier Efficient Grip on our Peugeot 2008, and like them.

Of note, the Double Coin is the lowest cost and longest wearing tyre, but in almost every other test category it is at the bottom of the pile. But hey it might have deep tread.

If you didn't have any interest in tyres, you wouldn't go far wrong in choosing from one of the European brands with a long maintained reputation for good tyres.

Re the tyre manufacturing YouTube, you get all of those materials, compounding, production and quality control for only $250 a tyre, its a pretty good deal. If you think about the economics: the materials suppliers, production factory, freight carrier, importer/distribution agent, local reseller and tax man are all making a margin. The production cost per tyre must be quite low.

Cheers.

 

[Greenpeace]

Well I'm convinced I must have run over a China..... err black cat.
I just replaced the failed front tube on the TA250 and thought I'd go for a fang. As I pulled back into my drive I could feel a slight bumping and thought "oh I've picked up a stone in the tread".
Yeah, nah.
This is the rear Barum tyre (owned by Continental), Barum motorcycle tyres actually have a fairly good reputation.

 

[4cvgordini]

The steel belt/"rubber" bond is a difficult one for resistance to stresses (both centrifugal & those provided by driving manoeuvres). The stresses are aggravated by underinflation.

For car tyres, I advise reading the fine print on the sidewall under 'tread plies'. Seek out an overlay (usually nylon) ply. So: '1 (or2) polyester + 2 steel + 1 nylon', not just the polyester & steel.
Thin ply was a splendid invention decades ago by Pirelli - as fitted first on the CN36 SM (still available in upgraded form as a "classic" tyre).

 

[4cvgordini]

On the Double Coin:

Are Budget Tyres Finally Good Enough? 8 Cheap Tyres VS 1 Premium Tyre - Tyre reviews and ratings

Times are hard, and now more so than ever people are asking me what the best budget tyre they can buy is. As these have never been tested against each other properly, I usually don't have an answer, ...

www.tyrereviews.com

 

[Greenpeace]

The steel belt/"rubber" bond is a difficult one for resistance to stresses (both centrifugal & those provided by driving manoeuvres). The stresses are aggravated by underinflation.

Yeah I checked the rear tyre's pressure after I blew up the new front tube, it still had 30 psi in it.

 

[Fordman]

Of possible interest given some of the above discussion.

2023 ADAC Summer Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

It's the 50th anniversary of the ADAC tyre test, and to celebrate the German automotive body have tested fifty summer tyres in the popular 205/55 R16 tyre size, and have included wear testing for ...

www.tyrereviews.com

Interesting, given that I fitted Goodyear Efficient Grip tyres to my Koleos last year, specifically for wet weather grip, as the original Nexens were spinning front wheels on normal acceleration in the wet to a frightening degree (and I am not a heavy driver). In the 2 winters since, I have not had an ounce of noticeable wheelspin, even when I have tried a bit to induce it. And they are generally pretty quiet which was also a consideration. So not outstanding in any one area of comparison, but obviously a very good compromise.

 

[trevorburdon]

Newly released Yokohama Bluearth tyres.
35,000 kms and they were worn out?
Oh and the fuel consumption didn't improve one iota over the Maxxis tyres.
I'm leaning towards the OP's Cadbury chocolate theory myself.

I bought Yokohama Blueearth AE01 tyres in 2013. I sold that car 2 years later and they were still roadworthy as you'd expect.

On all counts, I couldn't speak highly enough of them. It took me weeks to get used to the reduced rolling resistance on the approach to intersections, and my fuel consumption improved by 10%. The tyres had paid for themselves after a few long interstate trips.
Back when tyres were actually comparison tested properly, they scored well, and most importantly for braking in the wet.
I selected them following a Choice test where they achieved:
+ Lowest Fuel Consumption
+ Lowest Rolling Resistance
+ Best Dry Braking
+ Equal Best Wet Braking

I'll be very disapppointed if they're no longer so good - I was thinking of buying some later this year.

 

[Greenpeace]

I bought Yokohama Blueearth AE01 tyres in 2013. I sold that car 2 years later and they were still roadworthy as you'd expect.

On all counts, I couldn't speak highly enough of them. It took me weeks to get used to the reduced rolling resistance on the approach to intersections, and my fuel consumption improved by 10%. The tyres had paid for themselves after a few long interstate trips.
Back when tyres were actually comparison tested properly, they scored well, and most importantly for braking in the wet.
I selected them following a Choice test where they achieved:
+ Lowest Fuel Consumption
+ Lowest Rolling Resistance
+ Best Dry Braking
+ Equal Best Wet Braking

I'll be very disapppointed if they're no longer so good - I was thinking of buying some later this year.

I don't recall the tread pattern we had, the Bluearth "advantage" is available in several different patterns.
I can only reiterate my experience, in that, the ones we bought offered zero advantage over the OE Maxxis tyres, and they wore out (evenly) in less than than half the kms.
I've attached a Bluearth review from a Citroen C5 owner. Interestingly he said they transformed his car's ride into something akin to a "combine harvester". Oddly enough the very next review for the exact same tyre was from a Honda driver and he said he "loved the soft, floaty ride".
Sounds like, to coin a phrase, "results may vary".

 

[4cvgordini]

AutoBild is probably the best of the magazine testers. Here's a test from around the same time. Two things to note: usual Yoko problem of mediocre wet performance is manifested with the AE01 & the poor wear of the GY EGP (despite which, I'll be fitting a pair to a daughter's car as I do not prioritise longevity).

2015 Auto Bild Top 18 Summer Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

Following on from the 53 tyre wet and dry braking shootout, Auto Bild have tested the top 18 tyres more thoroughly, putting them through the usual mix of wet, dry, wear and NVH tests in 185/60 ...

www.tyrereviews.com

And, for interest, the wider braking test used as a screening tool to choose the tyres to be in the above, more elaborate, test

2015 Market Overview Braking Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

53 summer Tyres for small to medium cars in 185/50 R15. The top 18 go through to the full Auto Bild test. There are the wet and dry braking results from 62mph.

www.tyrereviews.com

 

[LettCat]

AutoBild is probably the best of the magazine testers. Here's a test from around the same time. Two things to note: usual Yoko problem of mediocre wet performance is manifested with the AE01 & the poor wear of the GY EGP (despite which, I'll be fitting a pair to a daughter's car as I do not prioritise longevity).

2015 Auto Bild Top 18 Summer Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

Following on from the 53 tyre wet and dry braking shootout, Auto Bild have tested the top 18 tyres more thoroughly, putting them through the usual mix of wet, dry, wear and NVH tests in 185/60 ...

www.tyrereviews.com

And, for interest, the wider braking test used as a screening tool to choose the tyres to be in the above, more elaborate, test

2015 Market Overview Braking Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

53 summer Tyres for small to medium cars in 185/50 R15. The top 18 go through to the full Auto Bild test. There are the wet and dry braking results from 62mph.

www.tyrereviews.com

The wet road tests raise some questions for the tires. If I were racing on a track, I would need 2 sets of tires: dry and wet.
But for daily use, I need wet tires. After all, I don't know when exactly it will rain.
A difference of 26 meters, according to the article, is really a lot.

 

[4cvgordini]

I like 14" rims for rear-engined Renaults (& my Djet). Part of my motivation has been good-tyre availability. 13" is dire-ish &, given my liking for different front/rear sizes, front tyres in 15" is also awkward. Regrettably, 14" is also becoming worrying.

My RER rims are 4.5x14 fronts & 5.5 rears. My chosen sizes have been 165/65 F (sometimes 165/70) & 185/60 R. The spare is 145/65-15 on a standard R10 rim (4x15), Each of these sizes has a near-identical circumference (thus gearing). Also near-identical is 155/80-13. This is the standard size for an R12 & that vehicle is the source of my speedo. So, all of the dimensional planets are aligning here. So far, so good & has been so for decades. But things are now worse.

Briefly put, there's not enough demand for these sizes & what demand there is increasingly demands cheap & nasty. What I want from the tyres are good wet grip from the fronts & relatively lower slip angles at the rear. The latter is a function of tautness of structure & tread stability. If the former of these is dominant, then tyre pressure tuning can adjust matters but if the latter, one is stuffed until the tread grinds down. So far, I have generally been able to find suitable tyres from those available. (I have had some front/rear relative slip angle hassles &, with my R8, reverted to softer rear springs to accommodate some non pressure-tuneable tyres which had tread edge stability issues).

The available 165/65 fronts have become a bit of a hassle but the rears have been better (until recently) with the Pirelli P6. Regrettably, that tyre is no longer available in 185/60-14 (I bought the last two in Australia for the R8). So, what now? I have two paths forward. One is to keep playing with what is available in my chosen sizes & hope to find a combination that satifies my criteria. This is complicated by a paucity of test data on available tyres. The other is to shift sizes to access better tyres.

The latter path has some attractions & is the path I suggest to anyone starting off with a RER & 14" rims. My motivation is the (regional) P6. Pirelli have done a good job with this tyre on criteria important to me. It's grippy in the wet, has good limit behaviiour &, having a stable tread, is pressure tuneable for slip angle adjustment. Relevantly to this note, it's available in 175/70-14 & 185/65-14. Minimum rim widths are 4.5 & 5 respectively. These sizes' circumferences are near identical & also identical to 135/80-15, the standard R8/R10 tyre size (So the spare could be a standard tyre - Nankang make a rubbish, but cheap, tyre in this size). I would be astonished if one couldn't get a lovely handling balance from this option with a bit of pressure tuning.

I think that this is the path that I will take at some point if the P6 remains available.

175/70-14 P6 availability has wider charms. (It's apparently a popular size & the P6 might thus remain available.)

One is that the cheapest & easiest way of going to 14" rims is to source some R16 rims & have a wheelwright "cut & shut" them with rims reversed on the maximum offset that the wheel well allows. One then has 4.5x14 RER rims. The P6 in 175/70 is the best available choice (& preserves original gearing) & pressure tuning would adjust relative slip angles & thus handling balance. My Djet has such reversed R16 (TX in its case) rims & this is the path which I shall choose when its current (excellent) 165/70 Conti PC2 tyres expire.
Another is that this tyre size is suitable for the Renault R16; much advised as a way of crispening its handling response & improving wet grip (relative to almost anything that might be currently fitted).

cheers! Peter

 

[4cvgordini]

The wet road tests raise some questions for the tires. If I were racing on a track, I would need 2 sets of tires: dry and wet.
But for daily use, I need wet tires. After all, I don't know when exactly it will rain.
A difference of 26 meters, according to the article, is really a lot.

Even more worrying, the worst (Maxtrek) tyre has a 55% longer braking distance in the wet than the best on test (85.6m compared to 47.5). Compared to that Pirelli P1 Verde, the driver with the Maxtrek would be travelling at quite a larger speed into his/her accident.And momentum increases non-linearly with speed so the effect on the impact is more than it might seem.

 

[1972Ren]

But for daily use, I need wet tires. After all, I don't know when exactly it will rain.
A difference of 26 meters, according to the article, is really a lot.

Nicely put re your first line.
I see the brief second link says this:
"Proof it's easy to make a tyre work in the dry, and must harder to make one work in the wet."
Which is no doubt true. The dry performance is just about the compound (ok roughly speaking), but the wet performance obviously enough is significantly about the black are of tread patterns et al.

I have always felt, however, that conclusions typically drawn from these comparisons about wet stopping distance, are often not very realistic. When one drives any vehicle, one does (or should.. ) get a feel for how well or otherwise it stops in dry vs wet. Just like one gets a feel for maximum cornering speed vs straight line, in any vehicle. (almost) everyone adjusts their speed on these sorts of bases (though admittedly some more effectively than others...). I drive my own cars at different speeds in identical circumstances, because I have an idea of the safe and absolute limits of all of them.

 

[4cvgordini]

Nicely put re your first line.
I see the brief second link says this:
"Proof it's easy to make a tyre work in the dry, and must harder to make one work in the wet."
Which is no doubt true. The dry performance is just about the compound (ok roughly speaking), but the wet performance obviously enough is significantly about the black are of tread patterns et al.

I have always felt, however, that conclusions typically drawn from these comparisons about wet stopping distance, are often not very realistic. When one drives any vehicle, one does (or should.. ) get a feel for how well or otherwise it stops in dry vs wet. Just like one gets a feel for maximum cornering speed vs straight line, in any vehicle. (almost) everyone adjusts their speed on these sorts of bases (though admittedly some more effectively than others...). I drive my own cars at different speeds in identical circumstances, because I have an idea of the safe and absolute limits of all of them.

Fine until the emergency stop or swerve is mandated. Then I want my tyres to be part of the solution, not the problem.

 

[lowpugV2]

On Thursday I did an advanced driver course at Sydney Motorsport Park. Apart from being very fun and informative I discovered that the Pirelli p zeros on my 308 are terrible tyres!

In the wet figure 8 and continuous radius turns it was nigh on impossible to hold a line and in the braking swerve test... Well, the straight line braking was fine, but ask the car to swerve and the front just pushed straight. For direct comparison, an i30 on Michelin PS4 (same size as my tyres) had zero issue. In the dry, there were no problems at all.

I know it's wasteful, but I'll be switching out the pirellis asap for something with much better wet performance as priority.