Love the work really great mods. But a bit of a bugger to change the fan belt. Does work place health and safety demand a cover for the chain? They don't for a belt, but............
The dry sump Gordini motor.
- Thread starter Frans
- Start date
Love the work really great mods. But a bit of a bugger to change the fan belt. Does work place health and safety demand a cover for the chain? They don't for a belt, but............
JohnW..I use a silicon gasket sealer. It is only water at 80 degrees and max 15psi. It worked for me so far, no failures yet and it holds the sleeves in place but not so that you have to press them out.
rubyalpine...They used to use a light oil but nowadays you get chain lube and that doesn't splash that much.
Sunroof...Thanks for the compliment. Safety is forced down my throat so much at work and I have built up such a resistance/grudge against it that I would rather not.
Legally, I don't know. For me? It is my work place and I have common sense so it will have no cover. I might fit one to minimise oil splashes.
Regards.
Frans
rubyalpine...They used to use a light oil but nowadays you get chain lube and that doesn't splash that much.
Sunroof...Thanks for the compliment. Safety is forced down my throat so much at work and I have built up such a resistance/grudge against it that I would rather not.
Legally, I don't know. For me? It is my work place and I have common sense so it will have no cover. I might fit one to minimise oil splashes.Regards.
Frans
Actually the question in mind is why did you use chain?
I'd be interested to know.
My feeling that a poly vee (like holden, falcon, toyota serpentine drive belt) may have been easier and smoother running. If you absolutely want positive drive use a toothed timing belt. These are both oil less and quiet running.
The problem of a drive belt belt breakage can be solved with a pressure switch and ignition interlock to halt the engine.
I'm also wondering if the chain is running within the specs of 2-3 m/s as I recall manufacturers suggest and not exceeding 9m/s.
I'm not trying to be difficult , just interested in your choice.
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I was thinking along the same lines with the chain choice. There are many off the shelf pulleys with two sets of grooves for two belts and i am sure one would be found to fit if belt drive was good enough. Some of these pulleys don't even the require the shaft extender you had to bodge, Frans, because they have necks you can shorten/machine down to fit on the c'shaft as is.
Just for a hint, some european versions of 205 (pug) engines have a model of c'shaft pulley with two sets of grooves of unequal diameter (close enough to the diameters required here, I would guess).
Just for a hint, some european versions of 205 (pug) engines have a model of c'shaft pulley with two sets of grooves of unequal diameter (close enough to the diameters required here, I would guess).
I am not sure I understand your objection. I was talking about twin pulleys. They can be poly-vee, toothed, etc. One belt drives the oil pump, the other whatever ancillaries, completely separately, don't see the need for matched lengths.
"Off the shelf" is a manner of speaking. "Readily available" any better?
Point is you can get loads of options by just visiting a wrecker's yard or s/h from one of many sources.
"Off the shelf" is a manner of speaking. "Readily available" any better?
Point is you can get loads of options by just visiting a wrecker's yard or s/h from one of many sources.
That's not the only possibility of having two (sets of) grooves, and doesn't imply the two have anything in common apart from being part of one pulley. 205GTI Euro crankshaft pulleys are like that. One poly-vee section for power steering (or A/C?) and one single V section of smaller diameter for alternator/whatever.
The English language, unlike almost all other languages IS a perfect science. There are enough words to chose from to make it so!
The English language, unlike almost all other languages IS a perfect science. There are enough words to chose from to make it so!
Hmmm. How do you explain homonyms then?
The English language, unlike almost all other languages IS a perfect science. There are enough words to chose from to make it so!
The number of words available with very slight variations in meaning is the problem. It is only perfect if the writer uses the correct words to clearly state their intended meaning. And unfortunately I am not always one of them. Sometimes, a few days later, I reread what I have written on A/F only to realise I could have said it a bit differently or more clearly.
Good point,it's easy to get off topic!
Meh, we're merely filling up time and keeping Frans' thread at the top so he doesn't need to look it up when he's back with some more progress report.
How do you delete your own posts?
How do you delete your own posts?
Robmac.......You are asking questions that I can't explain. It is a chain drive because it was a chain drive when I got it. Then maybe some stubbornness from my side trying to be more authentic when it doesn't matter I keep on doing before asking and the worst of all is that Johan gave me a pump from a Nascar that was virtually brand new. I returned it with the above ideas of this thread in my mind. Ross has that pump now and it will go on his Dauphine one day. The speed of the chain? All I can say is that it will run at exactly the same speed as the cam chain. It is old Renault cam gears.
Plugs.
I have a few holes that is not going to have any use after this mod. 1) Is the dipstick. I drilled that to the next suitable size which was then tapped M10 and a Loctited grub screw will go in there. 2) The oil pump outlet into the filter. The nearest size turned out to be ½” WW and that is what it became. 3) Then the dizzy hole. That is now plugged as well and there will be an empty space in there because it is not going to have neither oil pump drive nor dizzy drive.
Regards.
Frans.
I keep on doing before asking and the worst of all is that Johan gave me a pump from a Nascar that was virtually brand new. I returned it with the above ideas of this thread in my mind. Ross has that pump now and it will go on his Dauphine one day. The speed of the chain? All I can say is that it will run at exactly the same speed as the cam chain. It is old Renault cam gears.Plugs.
I have a few holes that is not going to have any use after this mod. 1) Is the dipstick. I drilled that to the next suitable size which was then tapped M10 and a Loctited grub screw will go in there. 2) The oil pump outlet into the filter. The nearest size turned out to be ½” WW and that is what it became. 3) Then the dizzy hole. That is now plugged as well and there will be an empty space in there because it is not going to have neither oil pump drive nor dizzy drive.
Regards.
Frans.
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Love the finish on the machined blanking plates Frans. Very nice.
Now, regarding exposed chains, the attached photos show a real exposed chain!! That car held the outright record at Shelsey Walsh Hillclimb in England for years in the 1920s, and is still competing. Behold the fabulous GN Spider.
There are two, very similar cars with different exposed chains. Very loud and fast. I wouldn't stand beside....
Now, regarding exposed chains, the attached photos show a real exposed chain!! That car held the outright record at Shelsey Walsh Hillclimb in England for years in the 1920s, and is still competing. Behold the fabulous GN Spider.
There are two, very similar cars with different exposed chains. Very loud and fast. I wouldn't stand beside....
Attachments
Yeah, nice blanking especially the contoured one on the pump hole. I hate generic square plates over round holes and have fabricated my own for the 17G engine, just like yours. Polished and zinc plated gold they look like a million bucks.
If I am allowed a comment, I would say these plates and the rest of your work has a certain feel (a zeigeist of sorts if you will) the exposed chain breaks away from a bit.
If I am allowed a comment, I would say these plates and the rest of your work has a certain feel (a zeigeist of sorts if you will) the exposed chain breaks away from a bit.
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Franz I noticed you blocked off the distributor hole as well so now you got me curious as to what ignition system you are planning on using ?? Love the pictures and your engine build up .
Manic GT
Manic GT
I will be using a MegaJolt system as with my current engine in the race car. After 4-5 years it hasn't played up yet and Johan and Ross are using it as well. If you don't know it, I can elaborate on it.
Frans
Pistons and rods.
The pistons have been machined and the conrods re-sized to take the Fiat gudgeon pins. There might be a little more machining to be done when I get the cylinder head back just to fine tune the compression ratio. That I will make 12.5:1 as the existing motor. It proved to be a fairly good recipe for reliability and performance.
The pockets in the pistons are already a little bigger because of the bigger valves that are going in. You can see the nice fit and that is exactly where the valve will be with relation to the piston because I did a dry assembly and inserted a 7mm punch through the valve guides and made a pock mark on each of the pistons. I have made a drawing way back to mark the pocket positions but I wanted it 100% this time because of the limited clearance with the bigger valves.
punch marks on the piston.
Before and after.
The new bigger valves.
Regards
Frans.
The pistons have been machined and the conrods re-sized to take the Fiat gudgeon pins. There might be a little more machining to be done when I get the cylinder head back just to fine tune the compression ratio. That I will make 12.5:1 as the existing motor. It proved to be a fairly good recipe for reliability and performance.
The pockets in the pistons are already a little bigger because of the bigger valves that are going in. You can see the nice fit and that is exactly where the valve will be with relation to the piston because I did a dry assembly and inserted a 7mm punch through the valve guides and made a pock mark on each of the pistons. I have made a drawing way back to mark the pocket positions but I wanted it 100% this time because of the limited clearance with the bigger valves.
punch marks on the piston.
Before and after.
The new bigger valves.
Regards
Frans.
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Shims.
The shims are done and cut and after installing the sleeves and making sure they sit rock bottom on the pedestals, I held a straight edge across the sleeves. Then I started feeling the gaps with my feeler gauge and noted them down. I ended up with 3 different sizes of 2 x 0.004”, 1 x 0.007” and a last one of 0.002”. These shims will now elevate the sleeves back to the required 0.004” plus the little ridge that I cut in the top is another 0.004” and that will force itself deeper into the fire ring of the gasket for better sealing. That is now cut and waiting for installation. I will only start that next week because time is now a little scarce.
Frans.
The shims are done and cut and after installing the sleeves and making sure they sit rock bottom on the pedestals, I held a straight edge across the sleeves. Then I started feeling the gaps with my feeler gauge and noted them down. I ended up with 3 different sizes of 2 x 0.004”, 1 x 0.007” and a last one of 0.002”. These shims will now elevate the sleeves back to the required 0.004” plus the little ridge that I cut in the top is another 0.004” and that will force itself deeper into the fire ring of the gasket for better sealing. That is now cut and waiting for installation. I will only start that next week because time is now a little scarce.
Frans.
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Lovely Frans. How did you cut the shims?
With a smear of silicone, that is obviously the way of dealing with the copper ring types on the Ventoux engines, which I know from measurement squish by 4 thou (0.1 mm) when the head is tightened and run for 23 years. There are plenty of thin ones around (they came in 4 thicknesses) but the maximum thickness one is rare to unobtainable.
Exciting engine.
Cheers
With a smear of silicone, that is obviously the way of dealing with the copper ring types on the Ventoux engines, which I know from measurement squish by 4 thou (0.1 mm) when the head is tightened and run for 23 years. There are plenty of thin ones around (they came in 4 thicknesses) but the maximum thickness one is rare to unobtainable.
Exciting engine.
Cheers