Depends on how high or low you set the seat, Shane. Most human shapes & sizes catered for! I'm a pretty standard ± 6 footer and I've yet to get my hair stuck in the wagon sunroof. Haven't actually tried the back (and its normal occupant is barely 5') but I'll report back on neck angles tomorrow! It is a while since I've been in the back of a CX , but my ( sacrilegious, I know) memory is that it didn't favour the long kneed or lengthy much. ;-)
406 & 407 - a general discussion
- Thread starter peujohn
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Depends on how high or low you set the seat, Shane. Most human shapes & sizes catered for! I'm a pretty standard ± 6 footer and I've yet to get my hair stuck in the wagon sunroof. Haven't actually tried the back (and its normal occupant is barely 5') but I'll report back on neck angles tomorrow! It is a while since I've been in the back of a CX , but my ( sacrilegious, I know) memory is that it didn't favour the long kneed or lengthy much. ;-)
That's for sure, the early CX's in particular with the "hanging" roof lining as opposed to a moulded "shell" are restrictive in headroom, infact the early Series I cars I used to pull the height adjustment frame from under the drivers seat to provide an extra 1" of headroom. It still has far, far more headroom than the 407.... I imagine the 407 wagon will be a LOT better than a sedan with a sunroof.... It's the sunroofs, they suck bigtime. The XM with the sunroof had my hair against the roof all the time. The XM here without a sunroof had plenty of headroom....... i could have grown another 4" in height and still not come close.
I had to laugh .... Every modern car I've driven I've been hugely dissapointed with. I've just refitted the wheels to the old rat infested CX and lowered it down...... I've built my own sphere regasser, so for the first time in a decade, she's been treated to a fully gassed set of spheres..... Now this stinky old CX being a Series II Turbo Petrol has tree trunk sized rollbars, stiffer valving in the spheres ..... Hard (aged) low profile 215/50 16" rubber .... It's bloody hysterical compared to the 407.... Down the hill and around the corner, across the single lane bridge at 100km/h with a gentle raising motion from the car (60 km/h in the 407 smashes it into it's bumpstops and throws everyone out of there seats), over the speed humps at 80km/h (gentle thump in the distance .... 407 == 40km/h ... everyone hold on tight) .... I've decide PSA has simply lost the plot, how can they go from a car such as this to building the cars they do now
The only other small car I've owned was a Citroen GS .... absolutely brilliant ... unbelievable ... the C4's suspension was a complete joke in comparison (infact I was bloody certain if I looked under it, there would be axles welded to the body).I was looking for some CX HT leads for a friend and found them on special at CX basis ....... Hmmm.... Come to think of it, I can't recall changing (or needing to change) the plugs or leads since I purchased the poor old girl ..... must be 12years ago .... what the hell, I lashed out and order in some plugs and leads..... The burnt cremated old plugs that come out looked perfect (not bad for a 28 year old petrol turbo motor that's never even had the head off .... only oil changes in all the time we have own it). No measurable oil usage between changes ..... Performance ??? A 407 wouldn't see which bloody way it.... Lets not mention fuel economy
Oh well, we'll just wait for the next 45degree day and see which car I want to climb into
.... I bet it wont' be the old stinky CX that I still haven't put the ventilation box back into.seeya,
Shane L.
They might make it ride better. But the main thing is it sounds to have a lot more ground clearance. The sedan here really is crazy low. ...
It looks if anything lower than the sedan
The 407 wagon actually sits almost a centimetre higher than the 407 sedan, which may partly explain our different personal experiences. The 407 and 406 sedans have the same clearance (130 cm), so in my case I'm actually moving skywards with the move to the 407 wagon. ;-)
That's not a lot more .... But it would be enough to clear most wheel ruts and rocks. the biggest problem we had were "fist sized" rocks on the drive. They get stuck under the car and drag down the entire length of it..... I'm sure it sounds a hell of a lot worse than it actually is, and extra cm would most likely clear 99% of these. I actually quite like the 407, it's just a huge dissapointment. When I get a car tha's 25years younger than mine, I expect 25year worth of progress.... It just doesn't show in the driving even if it is there (remember the CX was already 11year old when mine was made new ... it's a late 60's early 70's design, it should be like driving a shitty old vintage car compared to a modern car like the 407).
seeya
Shane L.
Different parameters for Euro cars these days from the time when the Cx was designed. Its all autobahn & motorway criteria determining what matters for 'em. Once the French lost the African market toJapanese utes the marketing needs changed. Mind you, the 505 wagons actually had less clearance than the 407, despite the higher profile tyres etc. Its a long time since the 7 1/2" clearance of my old Pug 403's!
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AAARRRrhhhhhh.... I dont' bloody believe it. I was just ringing around to find out cost of getting some new tires stripped, fitted and balanced on the poogoe .................... looking out the window at the car while I was on the phone I thought ............ Surely not ......... Walked out and checked..... Yep I have another @#$@#$ car in the yard without center holes in the wheels. Why would poogoe do that ?? Looks like I'm going to have to ring everyone and everywhere and have them all try to put me onto someone else 'cos no-one will want to fit the attachment (they all pretend they don't ahve) to the machine
seeya,
Shane L.
seeya,
Shane L.
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205 Sis have 8 inches.
Not as long as you think, my 205 Si has 7.25 inches at the lowest point.
OK, I have slightly oversize tyres 195 60 14 but a steel sump from a non air con car will give more again as well as not shattering when hit!
I had 8 inches at the sump guard of my 205 rally car when last measured.
As well as this no overhang, you really can go anywhere with these things.
Graham
Not as long as you think, my 205 Si has 7.25 inches at the lowest point.
OK, I have slightly oversize tyres 195 60 14 but a steel sump from a non air con car will give more again as well as not shattering when hit!
I had 8 inches at the sump guard of my 205 rally car when last measured.
As well as this no overhang, you really can go anywhere with these things.
Graham
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205 Sis have 8 inches.
Not as long as you think, my 205 Si has 7.25 inches at the lowest point.
OK, I have slightly oversize tyres 195 60 14 but a steel sump from a non air con car will give more again as well as not shattering when hit!
I had 8 inches at the sump guard of my 205 rally car when last measured.
As well as this no overhang, you really can go anywhere with these things.
Graham
Not as long as you think, my 205 Si has 7.25 inches at the lowest point.
OK, I have slightly oversize tyres 195 60 14 but a steel sump from a non air con car will give more again as well as not shattering when hit!
I had 8 inches at the sump guard of my 205 rally car when last measured.
As well as this no overhang, you really can go anywhere with these things.
Graham
What tyres are you going to fit, by the way? I've been using Kuhmo Solus on the 406 in recent times & was surprised to find they were at least equal to the Yokohama C Drives I'd previously been so happy with (much happier than with its original Michelins) . The 407 SV came with Kuhmo Ku 31s & I suspect I'll stick with them as replacements. Very good tyres for the price, the modern Kuhmos, I reckon.
Fair enough, Graham, but the 205 is a 30 year old design - not much younger than the CX - and the French still ruled the African roads back then.
Even then it was far removed from the regular sedans of the day, and your rally car, even more so.
If we get back to peujohn's original brief in this thread, ground clearance notwithstanding, it ain't going to fit the needs of someone who likes their 307 estate but needs something a little larger! But yes, if someone wants a fantastic little bother boy of a car, that makes a great toy for young and old, can be thrown around on outback roads, and doesn't have to deal with basic daily family accommodation needs, a 205 GTi, Si or rally car fits the bill beautifully. ;-)
Even then it was far removed from the regular sedans of the day, and your rally car, even more so.
If we get back to peujohn's original brief in this thread, ground clearance notwithstanding, it ain't going to fit the needs of someone who likes their 307 estate but needs something a little larger! But yes, if someone wants a fantastic little bother boy of a car, that makes a great toy for young and old, can be thrown around on outback roads, and doesn't have to deal with basic daily family accommodation needs, a 205 GTi, Si or rally car fits the bill beautifully. ;-)
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The 405 was nowhere near as good.
I did one rally in a 405 and the sumpguard was almost destroyed.
The same guard is now on the 205 and has been hit lightly once or twice in many events!
I did the Oodnadatta track in a 406, it went well although I was being careful in the floodways.
Also drove a 407 on minor tracks and it was fine, but really bad on potholes whether on dirt or bitumen.
The 205 is REALLY good for space unless you want to take more than one passenger, then it becomes just a little better than average for size of car.
Graham
I did one rally in a 405 and the sumpguard was almost destroyed.
The same guard is now on the 205 and has been hit lightly once or twice in many events!
I did the Oodnadatta track in a 406, it went well although I was being careful in the floodways.
Also drove a 407 on minor tracks and it was fine, but really bad on potholes whether on dirt or bitumen.
The 205 is REALLY good for space unless you want to take more than one passenger, then it becomes just a little better than average for size of car.
Graham
No. The 504 passenger compartment is smaller than either. Lighter looking, though.
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Rod, we don't have a 307, but I can see how you might assume that from the OP! We have a 1990 Mazda 323. We considered a 307 but decided they are too small.
Just to make it more interesting, any thoughts on current shape Mondeo diesel?
Just to make it more interesting, any thoughts on current shape Mondeo diesel?
I've had Toyo's and Kuhmos (usually chinese made crap) on my cars in the past .... and found them a better tire than the michelin they have replaced. I ended up ordering in some kuhmo KR21's ... if you read the reviews, about 50% say there brilliant, better than OEM, and about 50% say there shit So I'd say there average and will be fine for a family non performance oriented car.
they were $90 delivered to my doorstep online. The cheaper ones (KR19?) are on special at Bob Jane in there current catalogue for $150 each These tires will be $180 each at bob jane no doubt (yes double the price).
This is the underbonnet of the 2litre HDI's .... Note: amazing, normal service items are in plain view with enough space around them for removal.... The V6 must be a squeeze
It obviuosly still has the original tires, there wearing incredibly well. The car had 42,000kms on it when we got it about 6months ago.... it's upto 52,000 already. The tires probably have another 10,000km in them yet, but look at the age cracking in the side walls ..... I also found a slight bulge in one of the sidewalls, that's why I decided they need changing ASAP.
I don't get why they'd make crappy wheels with no center hole in this day and age. Don't they know, no bloody tire retailer will balance them I've found someone that'll do an oncar balance, they want an extra $40 to do it.
seeya,
Shane L.
So I'd say there average and will be fine for a family non performance oriented car.they were $90 delivered to my doorstep online. The cheaper ones (KR19?) are on special at Bob Jane in there current catalogue for $150 each
These tires will be $180 each at bob jane no doubt (yes double the price).This is the underbonnet of the 2litre HDI's .... Note: amazing, normal service items are in plain view with enough space around them for removal.... The V6 must be a squeeze
It obviuosly still has the original tires, there wearing incredibly well. The car had 42,000kms on it when we got it about 6months ago.... it's upto 52,000 already. The tires probably have another 10,000km in them yet, but look at the age cracking in the side walls ..... I also found a slight bulge in one of the sidewalls, that's why I decided they need changing ASAP.
I don't get why they'd make crappy wheels with no center hole in this day and age. Don't they know, no bloody tire retailer will balance them
I've found someone that'll do an oncar balance, they want an extra $40 to do it.seeya,
Shane L.
Attachments
Let's see some pix of your 407, Shane.
I drive a fair bit on gravel (I have a habit of getting lost) I have the metal bash guard under the engine so this makes me feel a little better.
I currently have two baby seats in the car atm and even with a rear facing seat I can fit in the front seat. For a laugh I was able to squish three seats in the back of the car.
I have 17' wheels so i have not had any issues with balancing. My car is starting to get some rattles but it is almost 8yrs and had just clicked over 160k.
Looking to replacing some suspension components which should quell the squeak.
shobbz
) I have the metal bash guard under the engine so this makes me feel a little better. I currently have two baby seats in the car atm and even with a rear facing seat I can fit in the front seat. For a laugh I was able to squish three seats in the back of the car.
I have 17' wheels so i have not had any issues with balancing. My car is starting to get some rattles but it is almost 8yrs and had just clicked over 160k.
Looking to replacing some suspension components which should quell the squeak.
shobbz
I quite like Mondeos, John (don't tell anyone here , though ;-) ) and it was one of the cars briefly in my own mix, but ultimately I came down to a Peugeot 407 touring or a Skoda diesel estate. Peugeot have been making diesel cars for a lot longer than most, though, and I have a certain family affinity with Pugs that is hard to overcome (going back to 1956).
And, yes, I see on re-reading that you were looking at the 307 estates rather than currently owning one.
The 407 Touring is a vastly different vehicle to the old Peug 404, 504 & 505 wagons that i used to love (still do) for their carrying capacity etc. It is like a bloody big sports hatch. It has more cargo capacity than a 504, 505, 406 or 407 sedan (and way, way, way more than a Mazda 323) , but far less than a 505 wagon. It drives though (or at least my SV V6 HDi does) like a bloody good car (not a wagon).
Some of Shane's comments make me wonder about the sedans. I wonder if they have got it together quite so well, and I wonder whether the different trim levels may matter more than they usually do with Peugeots. I really loved my 406 sedan (though some of the negatives that Shane mentioned with his 407 sedan apply equally to it) and think he is seeing things through an old light that might not be so relevant to someone looking for a car for the family today.
If I was looking at a 406 or a 407 (or a Skoda or a C5 or a Mondeo) in your situation I'd be looking at the Estate/Touring/ Wagon options in any of them. They just make bloody good sense space wise for any family, and sacrifice absolutely nothing in driving satisfaction.
Yes. I'd be buying a diesel. The 407 SV turbo 2.7 touring beats the pants off my old 2 litre petrol 406 when it comes to fuel consumption (and makes the 406 SV V6 petrol look so very 1950's) . The 2 & 2.2 litre diesel 406/407 models both out-perform both my old 406 and new 407 in this area - even more economical. The 407 SV diesel turns in some mighty impressive figures, though, both for economy & performance- on balance well in front of the petrol V6 SV, and has fit-out levels that make the standard 2 litre model look comparatively ordinary.
But isn't the ultimate answer that you have to drive 'em all to see what works for you and your family?
And, yes, I see on re-reading that you were looking at the 307 estates rather than currently owning one.
The 407 Touring is a vastly different vehicle to the old Peug 404, 504 & 505 wagons that i used to love (still do) for their carrying capacity etc. It is like a bloody big sports hatch. It has more cargo capacity than a 504, 505, 406 or 407 sedan (and way, way, way more than a Mazda 323) , but far less than a 505 wagon. It drives though (or at least my SV V6 HDi does) like a bloody good car (not a wagon).
Some of Shane's comments make me wonder about the sedans. I wonder if they have got it together quite so well, and I wonder whether the different trim levels may matter more than they usually do with Peugeots. I really loved my 406 sedan (though some of the negatives that Shane mentioned with his 407 sedan apply equally to it) and think he is seeing things through an old light that might not be so relevant to someone looking for a car for the family today.
If I was looking at a 406 or a 407 (or a Skoda or a C5 or a Mondeo) in your situation I'd be looking at the Estate/Touring/ Wagon options in any of them. They just make bloody good sense space wise for any family, and sacrifice absolutely nothing in driving satisfaction.
Yes. I'd be buying a diesel. The 407 SV turbo 2.7 touring beats the pants off my old 2 litre petrol 406 when it comes to fuel consumption (and makes the 406 SV V6 petrol look so very 1950's) . The 2 & 2.2 litre diesel 406/407 models both out-perform both my old 406 and new 407 in this area - even more economical. The 407 SV diesel turns in some mighty impressive figures, though, both for economy & performance- on balance well in front of the petrol V6 SV, and has fit-out levels that make the standard 2 litre model look comparatively ordinary.
But isn't the ultimate answer that you have to drive 'em all to see what works for you and your family?
well i must say that using the 406 wagon is so much easier than using the 605
the 605 is a great car but it's not a town car
it's great, quiet and smooth on the open road and very easy to cover great long distances
don't try and get anything in the boot as nothing will fit which is sad for such a large car
the 406 wagon is nearly as smooth, and just as quiet as the 605
power wise the 605 is great once rolling as is the 406 remembering the 406 is the 12V diesel not the HDi
economy, well there is no comparison, the 406 kills the 605 hands down
and yes i can fit heaps on the back of the wagon
if going for a family car go for a wagon, don't entertain a modern sedan there just isn't enough room in them and even when they can state that the boot has x amount of space you can't get anything in them due to stupid boot lid designs that don't allow you to get anything in there that is sizable
also rear door access is very poor on modern sedans, don't believe me, try and get a baby seat in through one without trying to lay it over sideways and angle it in through the door way
try and get a pram into the boot of a modern car
take these things with you when you are test driving and you will walk away without driving the car
you need to think of trying to get a child in through the door into the baby seat
on my own or just 2 up and jsut travelling the 605 is the car i take
if i need to carry anything at all or need to pile the kids in i take the wagon
the 605 is a great car but it's not a town car
it's great, quiet and smooth on the open road and very easy to cover great long distances
don't try and get anything in the boot as nothing will fit which is sad for such a large car
the 406 wagon is nearly as smooth, and just as quiet as the 605
power wise the 605 is great once rolling as is the 406 remembering the 406 is the 12V diesel not the HDi
economy, well there is no comparison, the 406 kills the 605 hands down
and yes i can fit heaps on the back of the wagon
if going for a family car go for a wagon, don't entertain a modern sedan there just isn't enough room in them and even when they can state that the boot has x amount of space you can't get anything in them due to stupid boot lid designs that don't allow you to get anything in there that is sizable
also rear door access is very poor on modern sedans, don't believe me, try and get a baby seat in through one without trying to lay it over sideways and angle it in through the door way
try and get a pram into the boot of a modern car
take these things with you when you are test driving and you will walk away without driving the car
you need to think of trying to get a child in through the door into the baby seat
on my own or just 2 up and jsut travelling the 605 is the car i take
if i need to carry anything at all or need to pile the kids in i take the wagon