EV alternatives

[Greenpeace]

I'm sure this surprised no one

Toyota's plug-in hybrids emit four times more CO2 than company claims

New real-world data from the EU shows plug-in hybrid vehicle emissions are actually much closer to the average petrol car than car companies claim.

thedriven.io

Now that there's a healthy real world consumption & emissions database building up we should be able to get a real comparison between ICE/hybrid/BEV

I think all that article demonstrates is that an awful lot of people either;
1- Bought the wrong car for their driving habits, or
2- It's a tax rort company car with a fuel card, and they couldn't be f#cked plugging it in every night.

For some reason Toyota got singled out, but regardless, it's not relevant to Australia, because Toyota don't sell any PHEVs here.

 

[Berridale]

The motor/gearbox usually outlasts the car.

Paint can be the issue.
Daughter's Peugeot 206 GTI has 370,000 klms on it , paint and clear lifting.
Motor never been apart, no oil leaks and everything works.
Lower control arm rattle on some surfaces.

 

[Greenpeace]

Paint can be the issue.
Daughter's Peugeot 206 GTI has 370,000 klms on it , paint and clear lifting.
Motor never been apart, no oil leaks and everything works.
Lower control arm rattle on some surfaces.

Yes we've had a '99 Toyota Starlet in the family for several years. I gave it to my eldest grandson 2 years ago, then he bought a Navara, so his mum is using it for work instead of her new diesel Kia Carnival because it's way cheaper to run. Next grandson gets his learners (and the Starlet) in August. The thing's got nearly 300K on the clock and never been touched, other than servicing. The paint on the roof is ordinary though.
We had a '99 Toyota Echo for a number of years too, a couple of the daughters "owned" it as well as myself. I ended up selling it to an older lady in town about 5 years ago. I spoke to her at the shop a couple of months ago and she said "it hasn't missed a beat". It had 260K on the clock when I sold it to her, no idea what it has now. But same thing, other than a $99 set of ignition coils off EBay and a LHR wheel bearing, just normal servicing. The clearcoat on its roof and on the tops of its bumpers was lifting.too though.

 

[2353]

Recharging may be done at home for those with suitable facilities and off street parking but travelers over quite a large geographical area don't have a choice if they are heading to a destination outside their battery range.

And a lot of people with overgrown Tonka trucks never take the vehicle outside their postcode. Public EV chargers exist for a reason, if someone plans to use one in the boondocks in the dead of night, that is basically their problem for not planning better.

my guess is 99.999999999999% of them.

Studies with actual dynometer testing, and fuel consumption trials, not a study that is comprised of assurances from some Muppet thats sole motoring experience is that they watch reruns of Top Gear?

So according to your logic, almost every vehicle built 10 years ago that is powered by dinosaur juice is running as if it just left the showroom without any unscheduled repairs apart from following the manufacturers service manual and every similar age EV is effectively useless although their owners still have them on the road and paying the 'tax' that is required? Maybe you need to think about your leap of faith there.

I recently sold a 11 year old well maintained Subaru that was getting to the stage that it needed 'something else' apart from the manufacturer's documented work at every service. The paint was fine by the way.

And Top Gear is still a UK magazine and website of similar influence to Drive, Car Expert and so on even though the TV show is 'on a break'.

I think all that article demonstrates is that an awful lot of people either;
1- Bought the wrong car for their driving habits, or
2- It's a tax rort company car with a fuel card, and they couldn't be f#cked plugging it in every night.

PHEVs do need to be plugged in after use otherwise they are nothing more than a Hybrid. The one on the fleet at work is rarely plugged in and gets around 4.5 to 5 l/100km which is better than the few remaining ICE vehicles on the fleet.

As someone that does plug the PHEV in religiously, my 'lifetime' fuel consumption over nearly 2 1/2 years and 24000km is 1.1 l/100km. The battery has not degraded, i'm still getting the usual 50-55km round town on electricky, and the car predominately is charged by the sun. The battery is covered for 8 years to retain at least 80% of full capacity, so far it looks like I won't be making a claim.

 

[Greenpeace]

So according to your logic, almost every vehicle built 10 years ago that is powered by dinosaur juice is running as if it just left the showroom without any unscheduled repairs apart from following the manufacturers service manual and every similar age EV is effectively useless although their owners still have them on the road and paying the 'tax' that is required? Maybe you need to think about your leap of faith there.

And Top Gear is still a UK magazine and website of similar influence to Drive, Car Expert and so on even though the TV show is 'on a break'.

No that's according to my experience, even with the cheap sh#t Chinese Chery, the only mechanical repair it has had in 13 years is a LHF wheel bearing. Even it didn't "fail", I just noticed it was a bit rumbly when my daughter was home from uni about 6 years ago. I chucked a new one in for the grand total of $52.
No brake pads, no nothing otherwise, it has around 150K on the clock.

At no stage did I say the EVs still on the road were "effectively useless", confirmation bias?

All I did note was, in the article that YOU supplied, was that a cheap 10 year old Ford Focus had a significantly better survival rate than the more expensive BEVs that were available at the time.
That would indicate that either;
1- Ford Focus owners are better drivers,
2- Ford Focus' fare better in an accident, or that,
3- BEVs reach the point of uneconomical repairs before the ICE car does.
Or a combination of these factors.
You can't play all offended and accuse others of "cherry picking" when all they are doing is reading the evidence in the material YOU provided.
Maybe you should have read the article more thoroughly, and redacted the non supportive evidence (to your claim) before posting it?

As to Top Gear, the terms "influence" and "credibility" are not interchangeable.
Or do you really think the hundreds of thousands of three wheel cars Reliant manufactured over the years, all tipped over at the very sight of a corner?

 

[Russell Hall]

I used to have a gas only company Falcon and know what range anxiety means. Very few refueling spots and a tilt tray if you run out. There is no commercial appetite for providing a network of charging EV stations in areas less well traveled and some opposition from ratepayers to it being a Shire responsibility. From what I understand the chargers don't always work. Of course petrol stations are scarce enough at night and a long night run requires a good fuel range. No problems with people buying electrics, no business of anyone else, and well may they spark on. Problems only arise when city politicians try to impose a particular technology on everyone. Markets have a better record in picking technological winners than politicians. It's a big country out there beyond the tram tracks and people are capable of making their own decisions as to the most suitable technology for their needs. I think Tavares assessment that the American market will go 50% electric is probably a reasonable guess for Australia too.

 

[David S]

As to Top Gear, the terms "influence" and "credibility" are not interchangeable.
Or do you really think the hundreds of thousands of three wheel cars Reliant manufactured over the years, all tipped over at the very sight of a corner?

Looks like it. Driving in a straight line and placing a bag of cement on the passenger seat apparently help ...

But everyone now knows the Reliant was really a clandestine UK space programme ...

 

[Greenpeace]

A mate of mine had a dedicated gas, Falcon sedan, not sure of the model, BF maybe?
It had the gas tank mounted where the spare wheel normally sits.
He got a normal cylinder mounted on the axle hump as well, and doubled his range. As he was almost always the only one in the car, he just stood the carpet covered spare wheel on the floor behind the passenger seat, and the car still had a pretty decent boot space.
The extra LPG tank was $800 fitted.

 

[Greenpeace]

Looks like it. Driving in a straight line and placing a bag of cement on the passenger seat apparently help ...

But everyone now knows the Reliant was really a clandestine UK space programme ...

Yeah, I've been driving my Reliant around for 9 years now, and I'm still waiting for it to fall over.
Maybe because it's in Australia it thinks it's already upsidedown and that makes it more stable?
Either that or Top Gear is a crock of sh#t.

 

[Berridale]

And a lot of people with overgrown Tonka trucks never take the vehicle outside their postcode. Public EV chargers exist for a reason, if someone plans to use one in the boondocks in the dead of night, that is basically their problem for not planning better.

Cann River has an EV charging station , 5 or 6.
However no doctor or medical services!
As i have pointed out the nearest hospitals are Bairnsdale, Bega, Cooma .
There is a nurse at Malacoota.
Ambulance or helicopter for retrievals.

How about real priorities for people ?

 

[Russell Hall]

I had someone with an injury showing worse symptoms at night. We have a hospital but no doctors. The Health Dept website told me the closest emergency care was 183 k's away. He toughed it out. Perhaps this is a clever plan to breed a new type of tough individual with the ability of our ancestors to survive without modern medical care?

 

[Russell Hall]

Yeah, I've been driving my Reliant around for 9 years now, and I'm still waiting for it to fall over.
Maybe because it's in Australia it thinks it's already upsidedown and that makes it more stable?
Either that or Top Gear is a crock of sh#t.

That Mr Bean episode shot all chance of Reliant stability being taken seriously.
I've always thought owners of three wheelers had a rough ride in country Australia with a wheel in the centre rough.
The last ten or so three wheel Morgans after the war came to Australia but I never saw one.

 

[Greenpeace]

That Mr Bean episode shot all chance of Reliant stability being taken seriously.
I've always thought owners of three wheelers had a rough ride in country Australia with a wheel in the centre rough.
The last ten or so three wheel Morgans after the war came to Australia but I never saw one.

The Mr Bean one actually had an air ram installed through the floor, the stuntman triggered it as he spun the steering wheel. That's why you never see the underside of the car.
I live in the country, depending on the road conditions, sometimes the middle wheel is the only one that's "in the smooth".

 

[michaelr]

The Mr Bean one actually had an air ram installed through the floor, the stuntman triggered it as he spun the steering wheel. That's why you never see the underside of the car.
I live in the country, depending on the road conditions, sometimes the middle wheel is the only one that's "in the smooth".

One UK winter a colleague arriving at work white in the face. He had driven his Reliant down country lanes after a decent snow fall. The rear wheel followed the tracks of previous vehicles but the front couldn't decide, alternately left or right

 

[Berridale]

In theory, with so few moving parts. And electric car should last many times longer than an ICE vehicle. Sadly I think most will just get thrown away onto the junk pile when the batteries die ( ~ 7years ? ). After all, how long do you get from the your phone, laptop, tool batteries (etc). they are the same type of battery.

What value does a 7 year old tesla for example have, that needs a $17,000 battery replacement.

I reckon electric cars will become an environmental catastrophe. What on earth do we do with these cars when there batteries die? You have a power pack that needs to be kept in a safe environment. Imagine a battery dump going up in flames if one of them combusts.... you could have a dump/storage area with thousands of batteries in it ... If one goes up like a stick of dynamite, the rest will follow. There is endless talk about them being recycled. But I bet its not happening anywhere in the world due to cost and complexity ... not to mention safety and toxicity.

View attachment 222524

The next 20years of motoring sure will be interesting. We will solve these issues without doubt. I just wonder how!

Peugeot had a 206 that was very basic , 1.4 engine very few frills and was cheap.
We have a 2006 model, great little car.
Has nearly 310,000Klms.
Uses very little fuel.

$15,269.11 repair on EV is only a bit less than the original purchase price.

Makes you wonder?

 

[Russell Hall]

Good business opportunity for those who are always telling us the EV is the way of the future. Qld based maker of fast chargers is broke and looking for a buyer.

 

[JoBo]

She's a CO2 apostle and now seems to push hybrids, the worst of both worlds

 

[Kenfuego]

She's a CO2 apostle and now seems to push hybrids, the worst of both worlds

JoBo it would be nice to think this is an ordinary but thinking woman, who has looked at the data and changed her mind as a result. As it is mainly voting and caring women who unthinkingly buy the unsupported by science and data, but heavily promoted "saving the planet for future generations from suffering unspeakable disasters" as actual proven science, followed on of course with the usual spiel that taking this or that action will be an instant cure - The metaphorical "bandaid plaster" stuck on the wound.

Sadly this is probably another influencer video, promoting the sale or acceptance of another of the same, actor or media personality chosen by an agency to read the sales pitch and hopefully move the political "warmth" towards an alternative, in this case Hybrid or a foot in both camps solution to change public perception and expectations.

Investors and influencers use all sorts of ways to make wealth and this is probably a slick effort on their behalf. Normal for us is to look behind the promotion for the manipulator operating the strings. Follow the money trail often reveals all even if there are facts that seem quite reasonable. but how do they stand up to close inspection ? over to the armchair slueths..

Ken

 

[JoBo]

Wish i knew Ken . No doubt we have to go electric in some for or another even if hydrogen storage/transport becomes economically feasible

Seems to me the problem lies in the political speed chart of achieving net zero and the cost, the cost of social hardship for transferring wealth from the haves to the have nots unless there is a significant change to current policies (e.g. look at housing, on average each ferral politician has two investment properties, most likely in existing buildings which is key) which of course are tax deductible (got no problem with tax deductibility from new build as long as it's not for pulling down existing houses and simply building a new one in most cases)

It's deeply concerning when an expert policy maker, given the cost and turmoil, can't even say what impact net zero has on global temperature rise
Go to about 4:20 and witness the struggle to answer:

 

[Berridale]

I had someone with an injury showing worse symptoms at night. We have a hospital but no doctors. The Health Dept website told me the closest emergency care was 183 k's away. He toughed it out. Perhaps this is a clever plan to breed a new type of tough individual with the ability of our ancestors to survive without modern medical care?

The situation in the Monaro Region is pitiful, the catchment area extends all the way to Cann River in the south and Braidwood in the north.
At least 250 square klms.
Bega has a new Multi City Clinic GP which bulk bills seniors and offers great service.
The existing other GP service has closed books and a 3 week wait.
Often you will be seen by a junior GP who is incompetent .
One clinic i went to would deliberately not give me Repeats on meds , so i was seeing them every three weeks.
I explained to them that this was cluttering up their office with my frequent visit.
Too simple an idea for them.
Then there was the Chiropractor in Merrimbula who was useless, didn't pick up on a broken ankle.
He has retired thankfully.
As i often say of some "medical people",
"Just as well they don't fix cars!"