EV alternatives

[2353]

2023 GWM Ora EV with less than 200 kms on the clock.for $29,990.
Now the owners say it was an impulse buy "because it was cute", but now they've decided it's too small so they've ordered a BYD Atto 3. Assuming they bought it this year between Jan 11 and March 31, (when GWM discounted the 2023 models), they would have paid $36,638 for it. They say "no offers" as a dealer has offered "close to the asking price".

I wonder about that photo being of an Australian Ora - they all have a black roof according to the dealer where my daughter bought hers. There was a white one on the lot when the daughter was shopping around and it definitely had a black roof.

I also think the seller is dreaming as the base model Ora is $29,990 (effectively) in Queensland and most dealers seem to have stock, unless the car is an Extended Range or an Ultra.

 

[seasink]

Where I live Teslas would now be as common as VWs. The one thing they all have in common is a carport or garage. There are no street parked cars. That spot goes to the petrol car. Most are white.

 

[lowpugV2]

Chatswood is Tesla city. You can spot every model, every colour in any direction you look. Followed by a smattering of Porsche SUV, BMW iX varieties and then the venerable Toyota Camry, which is holding on well amongst the demographic there but it's definitely been displaced over the years.

 

[KenW Jnr]

Meanwhile in QLD.
I'm not a CM subscriber so can't read the article, but I heard somewhere else that the fire got put out and reignited again later on.
Fortunately it doesn't appear the garage was part of the house.


View attachment 240559

Yeah, pretty clear that you didn't read the article.

Old mate had plugged it in to charge via the shitty rat eaten wiring in his shed, and managed to light his power box on fire.

Quote from the article:
"
A Queensland Police spokeswoman said the owner of the car heard a “large bang” in the garage and saw a power box glowing orange.
She said police had finalised the investigation and concluded the fire was caused by the electric car being charged via an extension cord – connected to the power box.
She said it was non suspicious and the garage and car were completely gutted by the fire.
"
Link without the paywall: https://archive.md/nxPuw#selection-891.0-899.89

 

[Greenpeace]

Yeah, pretty clear that you didn't read the article.

Old mate had plugged it in to charge via the shitty rat eaten wiring in his shed, and managed to light his power box on fire.

Quote from the article:
"
A Queensland Police spokeswoman said the owner of the car heard a “large bang” in the garage and saw a power box glowing orange.
She said police had finalised the investigation and concluded the fire was caused by the electric car being charged via an extension cord – connected to the power box.
She said it was non suspicious and the garage and car were completely gutted by the fire.

"
Link without the paywall: https://archive.md/nxPuw#selection-891.0-899.89

Now I've read the article I've failed to see the bit about the "shitty rat eaten wiring", poetic licence?
Perhaps he just overloaded some perfectly good wiring?
I believe when the Scottish police got their fleet of EVs, but no way of charging them, they also melted a few power points trying to charge via extension cords.
The article does confirm, as I said, that "the fire reignited later on".
I made no other assumptions in my original post.

 

[Greenpeace]

I wonder about that photo being of an Australian Ora - they all have a black roof according to the dealer where my daughter bought hers. There was a white one on the lot when the daughter was shopping around and it definitely had a black roof.

I also think the seller is dreaming as the base model Ora is $29,990 (effectively) in Queensland and most dealers seem to have stock, unless the car is an Extended Range or an Ultra.

No they state standard range.
There's a car with a QLD number plate across the road in another shot, so no need to worry about the car being in Timbuktu.

 

[KenW Jnr]

Now I've read the article I've failed to see the bit about the "shitty rat eaten wiring", poetic licence?
Perhaps he just overloaded some perfectly good wiring?
I believe when the Scottish police got their fleet of EVs, but no way of charging them, they also melted a few power points trying to charge via extension cords.
The article does confirm, as I said, that "the fire reignited later on".
I made no other assumptions in my original post.

Yes, poetic license - but I would contend that if drawing the rated current over fixed wiring caused a fire, the wiring was not perfectly good

 

[DoubleChevron]

Yes, poetic license - but I would contend that if drawing the rated current over fixed wiring caused a fire, the wiring was not perfectly good

Sounds plausible to me. Why wouldn't the fuses/circuit breakers blow though if you were pulling huge current/voltage drop Sounds strange to me

I would have assumed any car being charged from a domestic power point would be pulling barely 10amps from the supply. After all, even a measly 15amps would have a big earth pin (unless its has a visit to DoubleChevrons place and had the earth pin modified on his bench grinder )

 

[Russell Hall]

You'd think too much current draw would blow fuses but it doesn't. Power cords and power points can get quite hot. It is possible to draw far too much current through a ten amp power point. Something I've done too much of. They tend to short out in the cord plugs with internal burning. If they short out in the outlet you've got trouble. The public charge points in the Shire are 15 amp. I don't know the current draw through a ten amp plug for an electric or if it overheats. "Power box" is an ill defined description of the source of connection. Was it a fuse box wired into the mains or a portable power board? We do not know the age of the garage or the wiring status.

 

[JoBo]

Circuit breaker (RCD) or old fashioned fuse?

 

[2353]

so no need to worry about the car being in Timbuktu

Fair enough - maybe they really are clueless if they repainted the roof white. It could also be photoshopped.

The black roof was a concern for the daughter and she asked if there was a light and heat reflective colour available - the answer was no. Strangely the inside of the car doesn't seem to get ridiculously hot when parked in the sun, despite the black roof.

 

[Greenpeace]

Fair enough - maybe they really are clueless if they repainted the roof white. It could also be photoshopped.

The black roof was a concern for the daughter and she asked if there was a light and heat reflective colour available - the answer was no. Strangely the inside of the car doesn't seem to get ridiculously hot when parked in the sun, despite the black roof.

You seem to have a lot of faith in the word of a car salesman.
Here's another brand new standard range one for sale in NSW with a white roof.

 

[DoubleChevron]

You'd think too much current draw would blow fuses but it doesn't. Power cords and power points can get quite hot. It is possible to draw far too much current through a ten amp power point. Something I've done too much of. They tend to short out in the cord plugs with internal burning. If they short out in the outlet you've got trouble. The public charge points in the Shire are 15 amp. I don't know the current draw through a ten amp plug for an electric or if it overheats. "Power box" is an ill defined description of the source of connection. Was it a fuse box wired into the mains or a portable power board? We do not know the age of the garage or the wiring status.

yes, bad connections will get hot and catch fire. To put it into perspective. Plug your toaster and kettle into the same powerpoint each morning .... turn them on ... you're probably pulling close to 20amps from the 10amp power point. For wiring to be so poor that a 10amp charger causing a fire .... well .... That is a worry.... but certainly likely The load isn't intermittant ... its going to be pulling that current for hours on end ... heating every dodgy connection up (not intermittent like tools being used in the shed).

 

[lowpugV2]

yes, bad connections will get hot and catch fire. To put it into perspective. Plug your toaster and kettle into the same powerpoint each morning .... turn them on ... you're probably pulling close to 20amps from the 10amp power point. For wiring to be so poor that a 10amp charger causing a fire .... well .... That is a worry.... but certainly likely The load isn't intermittant ... its going to be pulling that current for hours on end ... heating every dodgy connection up (not intermittent like tools being used in the shed).

That's very true. When we moved into our circa 60's flat and plugged the fridge, vacuum kettle etc in and fired them all up (moving day, fridge was on, need coffee ASAP and cleaning all at once) the old distribution board in the lobby started sparking and very nearly caught fire before I pulled the main breaker. Old wiring can be scary. Needless to say we had a new board installed but the wiring through the building and other flats is still old. Another reason we can't even consider installing power to the carport for EV charging. It'd be a massive investment and the other owners are not interested.

 

[seasink]

DC, I hope you can't overload a GPO like that. My 50+ y.o. house would throw breakers instantly.

 

[Greenpeace]

Circuit breaker (RCD) or old fashioned fuse?

There are a few ways an electrical fire can start without tripping anything.
If one thinks because they have new, (to code) wiring (and no hungry rats ) that they are fireproof?
Well they might be in for a rude awakening one day.
How good are the leads that are getting plugged in, they're pretty well all made in China?
The majority of them might have whatever amp rating you require printed on them, that doesn't mean they can do it for hours on end, at their maximum rating, without issue.
There's no end of photos on the net of melted power points that had an EV charger plugged into them. Many of them newly installed specifically for that purpose.
Even if you plug your shiny new EV's charger into a brand new dedicated circuit, what is the actual contact area of each pin inside that socket?
Unfortunately just because everything is new, doesn't mean jackshit. Does every plug on every appliance in your house plug in exactly the same into every power point?
These are two different 240v outlets. One is designed for continual high load, the other isn't.
Of course one costs a little bit more than the other. Which one would you trust your home with?
Of course what's the point in buying the latest model "Australia's cheapest EV" if you then "waste" money on a decent power point.

 

[Russell Hall]

Yes, our wool press is supposed to have one of those high load sockets.
It's bad practice to leave lithium batteries for anything charging unattended or overnight. If a car is being charged in a garage attached to a house a good fire detection system is needed.

 

[Greenpeace]

Yes, our wool press is supposed to have one of those high load sockets.
It's bad practice to leave lithium batteries for anything charging unattended or overnight. If a car is being charged in a garage attached to a house a good fire detection system is needed.

Yes, I charge my lithium power tool batteries on the tiles in front of me while I'm watching TV.
The front door is only about 6 feet away, so I can boot the little f#ckers straiģht out into the driveway if anything untoward happens.

 

[Kenfuego]

That's very true. When we moved into our circa 60's flat and plugged the fridge, vacuum kettle etc in and fired them all up (moving day, fridge was on, need coffee ASAP and cleaning all at once) the old distribution board in the lobby started sparking and very nearly caught fire before I pulled the main breaker. Old wiring can be scary. Needless to say we had a new board installed but the wiring through the building and other flats is still old. Another reason we can't even consider installing power to the carport for EV charging. It'd be a massive investment and the other owners are not interested.

Some years back we went through a period during morning peak (everyone cooking breakfast) if we turned on the toaster and the Microwave oven, the oven turntable noticeably slowed and lights dimmed. I think at the time we contacted the Electricity supply and they came and replaced the old pole fuse adjacent to the street transformer, told us it was a poor connection to the very old fuse that caused the problem rather than insufficient supply at peak times. Whatever, the complaint worked. I just wanted a solution to the immediate problem so the truth or whatever was not important, supply problem fixed.!

I guess if lots of owners plugged in their EV's at the same time, there might be a similar dip in supply power. I would be concerned if we had fires develop in weaker circuits.


Ken

 

[Berridale]

Yes, I charge my lithium power tool batteries on the tiles in front of me while I'm watching TV.
The front door is only about 6 feet away, so I can boot the little f#ckers straiģht out into the driveway if anything untoward happens.

Notice all these EV coming down the Princess Highway from Canberra and Sydney to prove a point that it is viable transport.
Did not spot one charging station between Nowra and Bega.

The single fact that remains is that "Fast Charging" lowers the life of batteries.
ALL BATTERIES.

So even if you get 100klms for $2 which i doubt on a Fast Charge, do you want to Fast Charge knowing that it is killing your battery?
Now if your EV battery didn't cost a minimum of $20,000 it wouldn't matter.