Which Citroen?

U

Uga Boga

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
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Location
Sydney
Project Budget: 60k (not including original vehicle purchase price)

I'm looking at modding a cit to be able to compete with some of the jap crap out there. Now i'm not going to be doing this to my Citroen C4 or Jag S-type, so what do you recommend?

What would be a good platform to start with? I haven't seen many Cits modded to max, unlike Pug's (especially in the U.K.. woah).

What about the Xsara VTS?

Please.. no comments go and buy a nissan 300zx, skyline r33 gtr etc.... I wouldn't drive that thrash at gun point :joker:
 
Xsara VTS would be a good start, a bit older but there is nothing wrong with a Bx 16Valve. I would love to see a >200hp Bx 16V with an LSD, stiffer spheres etc.

You could look at putting some more boost through a Xantia activa/CT.
How about a Xantia V6 motor in a Bx or Xsara??
With 60k you could pretty much do whatever you want.

Dave
 
Uga Boga said:
Project Budget: 60k (not including original vehicle purchase price)

I'm looking at modding a cit to be able to compete with some of the jap crap out there. Now i'm not going to be doing this to my Citroen C4 or Jag S-type, so what do you recommend?

What would be a good platform to start with? I haven't seen many Cits modded to max, unlike Pug's (especially in the U.K.. woah).

What about the Xsara VTS?

Please.. no comments go and buy a nissan 300zx, skyline r33 gtr etc.... I wouldn't drive that thrash at gun point :joker:
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I think you've got to go rear wheel drive, but that limits your options as far as Cits are concerned. How about an R10 with a supercharged R16 motor? That would kick some serious butt.
 
Do you know of anyone around Sydney who could handle such a project? Obviously they need to be specialists with French marques...

Yeah i really like the overall look of the BX compared to the Xsara's.
 
hehe R10 is a tad bit too old for my liking :D But yeah, that's the problem with Cits.. ( FWD grrr :nownow: )

graham66 said:
I think you've got to go rear wheel drive, but that limits your options as far as Cits are concerned. How about an R10 with a supercharged R16 motor? That would kick some serious butt.
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I'm sure PeterT could point you in the right direction as far as 16V engines and LSD's etc are concerned. Also last time i was at DS motors up here in brissie i saw sitting in a box the set of motorsport spheres that are adjustable by different shims. Then i suppose you would be looking at thicker swaybars etc.

Dave
 
The Turbo CT Xantia is a seriously fast car - and can be had remarkably cheaply - there is one in Drive for under 12K today, and I am sure you could get it cheaper.

You can superchip it easily for more HP, stiffen the spheres, add some really good tyres and you would have a very quick, very discreet car.

Or if you were really lucky, you might find an Activa Turbo CT - they were apparently sold here, but I've never seen one!

http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_50491/newsarticle.html

The V6 (from what I have seen) would be a nightmare to work on - changing cambelts is apparently listed at about 25 hours labour!! :eek: :eek: . You can get a superchip for them as well though.

Paul
 
hehe, i've given up looking for an Activa Turbo CT, i've also never seen one.. I believe an Aussiefrogger owns one tho.

I can't seem to find any Turbo CT Xantia's on drive... :cry:

If only the Xantia V6 could take twin turbos :D

Paul Smith said:
The Turbo CT Xantia is a seriously fast car - and can be had remarkably cheaply - there is one in Drive for under 12K today, and I am sure you could get it cheaper.

You can superchip it easily for more HP, stiffen the spheres, add some really good tyres and you would have a very quick, very discreet car.

Or if you were really lucky, you might find an Activa Turbo CT - they were apparently sold here, but I've never seen one!

http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_50491/newsarticle.html

The V6 (from what I have seen) would be a nightmare to work on - changing cambelts is apparently listed at about 25 hours labour!! :eek: :eek: . You can get a superchip for them as well though.

Paul
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Uga Boga said:
hehe, i've given up looking for an Activa Turbo CT, i've also never seen one.. I believe an Aussiefrogger owns one tho.
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That would be whitegoshawk... who's in Sydney btw. They sound like a seriously quick car, more than quick enough to blow away the jappers when stock (unless you call 'performance' standing-quarter times :nownow: )

Chris
 
I wouldn't go the BX route, there bloody hopeless at getting power to the ground, and the 16valve motor is already in a very high state of tune. You will spend huge amounts of money for little gain when the motor is already so good.

I personally would be find a petrol turbo car made by Citroen. They de-tune there petrol turbos to buggery.

This leaves a choice of several cars:

--Xantia CT turbo
--XM CT turbo
--CX 2500 GTi Turbo

Now the XM I consider to big & heavy, it's turbo motor is only 2litres .....

The Xantia would probably be the pick of them as they were sold out here, the CX turbo is 2.5litres (opposed to the Xantia turbos 2litres) and is exceptionally easy to get extra power out of with simple (very cheap) ignition computer changes. You just adjust the wastegate once you have slightly modified the AEI computer.

The CX is already considerably faster than the Xantia from the factory, however I'm sure you could dramatically up the boost on the Xantia without modifying to much (possibly run aftermarket computers so you can modifiy the fueling and boost charactoristics). The CX and Xantia would probably weigh about the same.

drroooolllll, to have $60,000 to spend on a car .....

You do of course realise this will all be wasted $$$ as a highly modified Citroen will be exceptionally hard to sell (me I'd go the CX GTi Turbo, a bullet proof 2.5 litre low pressure turbo engine would be a great basis for a really fast Citroen).

If I really wanted to go super fast though, I'd buy something that I'd enjoy such as a rear engined Renault 5 turbo. You wouldn't lose any $$$ on your investment when it comes to sale time then.

BTW: I do know of someone that has a modified CX 2500 GTi Turbo, he's currently got it running bigger turbos/twin injectors/siere clutch/deisel gearbox. It apparantly effortlessly hits 150mph (yes miles per hour) and will spin the wheels as it comes onto boost in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear. It's painted a "prism" type of pearl paint that looks very different from any angle you look at the car from. Yes guys I realise most of you know of CGAT :D

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Uga Boga said:
DC, thanks for the great write up. I guess i'll search for a Xantia CT Turbo and see where to go from there (modding).

What about an SM? Should be able to get more out of that 2.7L V6 engine?

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedCarID=797108&TabID=3328&Alias=carpointau
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It's the same motor as used in one of the Maseratis at the time (I've gone blank, but I'm sure Paul will know which one it is Ghibli ??).

Yes I'm sure you could considerably upgrade it's V6, the same V6 generated much more power in the Maserati is was fitted to I've heard.

As a bonus you'll have a really nice highly collectable classic car in the process.

Finding an SM will be cause big hastles, and finding a workshop/engineering shop that you would trust with a high performance re-build of a Maserati V6 would be most interesting. Possibly the best option would be to purchase an SM drivetrain that been highly upgraded and modified out of France and simply find a donor car to fit the running gear to (that way it could always be put back to standard in the future if any owner wanted by simply fitting it's original engine back in).

You would first need to find an SM (even harder than finding a CX turbo I imagine). You could import one from the US however it will be LHD.

Don't ask me about the technical side, I seriously have no idea when it comes to performance upgrading of any kind.

edit: Just looked at your link, what a gorgious looking SM. Note: it is Left hand drive so will most likely have the hidiously ugly American headlight front fitted (it should have a battery of 6headlights, 4 of which turn with the steering).

seeya,
Shane L.
 
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If you want to be lynched by hordes of Citroen enthusiasts! Seriously though, there's a mob in the US who run a boosted SM on Bonneville flats. These are the guys:

http://www.infoweb.nl/smworld/achievem1.htm

But there's a better write-up somewhere of how they actually did it.

Given that there are only 2 right-hand drive SMs in the entire world and they're already pretty complex, the Xantia is probably a better bet.

Chris
 
chris said:
If you want to be lynched by hordes of Citroen enthusiasts! Seriously though, there's a mob in the US who run a boosted SM on Bonneville flats. These are the guys:

http://www.infoweb.nl/smworld/achievem1.htm

But there's a better write-up somewhere of how they actually did it.

Given that there are only 2 right-hand drive SMs in the entire world and they're already pretty complex, the Xantia is probably a better bet.

Chris
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On the other side of the coin though, the SM is simple with no computers to worry about, just 3 simple big twin barrel weber carbys (or very simple 'D' jetronic injection).

If the upgrade was done and the motor rebuilt to perfection blue printing and upgrading as you went I imagine it would vastly improve it's power output and reliablility. I've heard the motors were sand casted (or something strange like that) and were not very well finished/completed(I wish I could remember where I've read this stuff).

As a bonus it would increase the cars value, after all you haven't really modified it in anyway, just rebuilt the motor to much higher tolerances/specs. Possibly with different cams etc... It should be all invisible to the naked eye.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
I might be tempted to part with my 16v early if pushed, I might be getting a car through work sooner rather than later.

1070 kg's, freshy rebuilt motor, fresh suspension, sticky tyres.....you know it makes sense :)
 
Standard, Xantia turbos only have about 150hp. Great torque but hp is limited by low boost at revs. So you can get over 200hp with more boost at revs. You may need to look at getting a larger turbo and an intercooler. Also i wouldn't trust the gearbox with that sort of torque so LSD would be a must.

A highly tuned Bx 16V would be a more fun car to drive and i'm sure would get power down fine with an LSD. Xantias are even worse getting power down through corners than bx's due to their huge antiroll bars. Our 16V Xantia lights them up if you give it any curry round a turn (or taking off while turning). Talk to PeterT about 16V engines. If money isn't a problem 180-200 hp is not too much to ask for. The Xantia weighs a lot more only to have the same amount of power.

Dave
 
Cituning

I'm basically thinking of something similar... have you had a look at www.cituning.ltd.uk... with the stage one + cams kit, I believe you're looking at 210bhp for the vts (approx $9k) plus for wank factor go the widebody VTS kit for another $4k, then add rims and paint + interior. Should be well within your budget.

Or you could get a new Nissan V35 GTR when it comes out... they ARE Renaults in disguise anyway :p
 
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The CT Turbo is at Damon Beck's in Gladesville 9816 3881 - doesn't say whether it's auto or not though.

There is a family in Wollongong with an SM that has about 270bhp - I dread to think how much it cost to do the engine (they were at CitIn in Canberra last year - sounded amaaazing :D ) They also have several Lambos :eek:, so maybe they have a private mechanic! But an SM is big car, and not really for throwing around. It's much more of a grand tourer.

If you could find a Maikonics converted CX Turbo that would be fun, but most of them in the UK have disappeared in piles of rust :cry: (just ask Leigh Miles :roflmao: ).

Paul
 
DoubleChevron said:
BTW: I do know of someone that has a modified CX 2500 GTi Turbo, he's currently got it running bigger turbos/twin injectors/siere clutch/deisel gearbox. It apparantly effortlessly hits 150mph (yes miles per hour) and will spin the wheels as it comes onto boost in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear. It's painted a "prism" type of pearl paint that looks very different from any angle you look at the car from. Yes guys I realise most of you know of CGAT :D

seeya,
Shane L.
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You forgot to mention it has a full NOS suite, Maikronics, remote oil filter/cooler, large intercooler, it does 140mph in 4th, and is geard to do about 190mph. I gather he had the car Dyno tested at well over 400bhp!!! Here is a pic of CGAT, with Neil's 2 sons.
 

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