Two new racecars in NZ

Frans said:
Hi all,
I have uploaded another You Tube clip for you to see.
this is from Saturday afternoon and as I had only 4 laps practicing you might note that I tried a few different gears and different lines because I didn't know the track yet.(good excuse!) I have edited the video to show only the 1st 4-5 laps. Were the video ends is how the race continued and became boring. That is how we finished. The Torana that I took down the straight is a 6 cylinder one.
I have a lot of respect for the Fiat 128 that overtook me. It is very quick and the owner is a good driver as well, he did a lot of Go-Kart racing. The engine started life as 1500 SOHC out of a X19 and was developed from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5oaaIOgkus

Regards,
Frans.
Click to expand...
Hello Frans.
I am racing with a 1134 (1148 in volume) here in Sweden, and it is interesting to listen what you have done. I have a problem with the brakes, but first I tell you a little about my car.
The rules here in Sweden are a little different to what you have. We are, for example, not allowed to widen the wheel track, and therefore we can't lower the car by cutting off the springs. I have instead modified the beam over the gearbox, so the gearbox is 4 cm higher up in the beam. And we are not allowed to use 13 inch alu-wheels, if they not are in the papers from F.I.A. in Paris (the paper is called "Appendix K") for R8 1134.
I have polished crankshaft and connecting rods in the engine (I enclose a picture).
I have a rev limiter adjust to 8500 rpm. When I listen to your car it sounds a little lower. I enclose a short clip from a test we have done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyhTqqD0pmw

Now to my problem with the brakes:
I have changed the master cylinder to a new one with 19 mm diameter, no servo, new brake hoses and overhauld calipers. I have no brake reducer for the rear brakes, the one which normaly is mounted on the rear beam.
The calipers are filled with brake fluid before they are put together, and very carefully bleeded after mounted, so no air is left. But still it feels like air in the system, I can press the pedal down to the floor, if I press hard!
After that I disconnect the pipes from the master cylinder and plugged the cylinder. Now the pedal is hard!
Then I mounted back the pipes, and disconnect the brake hoses and plugged them. The pedal is still hard!
After that I connect the calipers again, one by one, and tested after each one, and the pedal will be softer and softer, and when the last one is back the system is as from the beginning, I can press the pedal down to the floor. Any ideas?
Thankful for help.
Gösta
 

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R8 Brakes

Hi Medicon

Nice looking car.

Sounds like you may have air trapped in the brake calipers or maybe when you release the pedal air is being sucked in past the seal, just a thought.
 
My Floride S was similar when I bought it, perhaps not quite to the floor but pretty close, depite having had the brakes redone before I got it. I have since changed hoses, fitted a new master cylinder and it was still no better. Then I found that the two front caliper pistons were not lined up correctly and that got rid of some air and it all improved but it is still not what I would expect although it is now similar to my sons R10. I would assume you have checked the caliper piston is correctly alined. I meant to bleed it again after some kilometres and haven't bothered but I must put it on the to do list.
 
Frans,

I've got the drawings you sent and i'm modeling them up - should have them done by end of week.
 
Hi Medicon,

Beautiful car you have. It sounds like you do have a lot of problems with the rules and regulations. We are lucky that the series we are in relaxed a bit on those type of regs and that creates a very big entry list. We have over a 100 registered racecars and entries needs to be in very quick or you will be refused. It depends on the amount of cars that is allowed for every track.

My rev limit is lower than yours 7000. I am only in my 1st season and have a lot of sorting to do. I will increase the limit at a later stage but not to 8500. Your short stroke crank will accept the 8500 easier than my long stroke.

Brakes. Attached is a drawing and in Fig 1 & 2 I have enclosed the basic things that normally goes wrong when the brakes are reconditioned. Fig 1: make sure that the DOT faces upwards in the caliper and that the back of the caliper looks like Fig 2 when the DOT is on top. The half spring washer with the bolt can be removed to clean and then it could be put back wrong. It MUST be put back with the opening upwards to allow air to bleed out.

Bleeding. This is my theory and I might be wrong. Look at Pic 3. I found that the bleeding pipe (transparent) always has a bubble in on the top of the bend. When you bleed the brakes and the fluid fills up in the left side and then runs down into the bleeding bottle the air remains in that top half. When you close the bleed screw the air remains. If you can bleed the brakes and force the fluid in with a speed then the fluid does not form a bubble on the top. Now, this type of bend can also be anywhere in the pipes on their way to the calipers and there could be more that one bend as well. That creates plenty of air bubbles. I have a cap that I use to bleed the brakes and I have a nipple on top as seen in the picture. I connect that to my compressor and I can force a whole reservoir through in 20 - 30 seconds. When I put the pressure on I go to a wheel and put the bleeding pipe on and open the nipple and then you can see the fluid coming out so fast that it cannot make a bubble. The last time I did it, there was no need for pumping afterwards at all. Make sure you stop before the bottle is empty!

Regards
Frans
 

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I use a similar system built from need to bleed my brakes without assistance. You don't need too much pressure, I use a spare wheel with a nozzle cut off a cheap footpump. I also included a small plastic tap (the kind used in home reticulation systems) in the line so I don't have to disconnect the nozzle every time I have to replenish the fluid. Works a charm every time.
 
Frans said:
Hi Medicon,

Beautiful car you have. It sounds like you do have a lot of problems with the rules and regulations. We are lucky that the series we are in relaxed a bit on those type of regs and that creates a very big entry list. We have over a 100 registered racecars and entries needs to be in very quick or you will be refused. It depends on the amount of cars that is allowed for every track.

My rev limit is lower than yours 7000. I am only in my 1st season and have a lot of sorting to do. I will increase the limit at a later stage but not to 8500. Your short stroke crank will accept the 8500 easier than my long stroke.

Brakes. Attached is a drawing and in Fig 1 & 2 I have enclosed the basic things that normally goes wrong when the brakes are reconditioned. Fig 1: make sure that the DOT faces upwards in the caliper and that the back of the caliper looks like Fig 2 when the DOT is on top. The half spring washer with the bolt can be removed to clean and then it could be put back wrong. It MUST be put back with the opening upwards to allow air to bleed out.

Bleeding. This is my theory and I might be wrong. Look at Pic 3. I found that the bleeding pipe (transparent) always has a bubble in on the top of the bend. When you bleed the brakes and the fluid fills up in the left side and then runs down into the bleeding bottle the air remains in that top half. When you close the bleed screw the air remains. If you can bleed the brakes and force the fluid in with a speed then the fluid does not form a bubble on the top. Now, this type of bend can also be anywhere in the pipes on their way to the calipers and there could be more that one bend as well. That creates plenty of air bubbles. I have a cap that I use to bleed the brakes and I have a nipple on top as seen in the picture. I connect that to my compressor and I can force a whole reservoir through in 20 - 30 seconds. When I put the pressure on I go to a wheel and put the bleeding pipe on and open the nipple and then you can see the fluid coming out so fast that it cannot make a bubble. The last time I did it, there was no need for pumping afterwards at all. Make sure you stop before the bottle is empty!

Regards
Frans
Click to expand...

Hello Frans and all other.
I forgot to tell you that I am familiar with the DOT on the calipers. The man who overhauled the calipers was not familiar with that, so I have to fix it before use. So it is nothing about that. A peculiar thing I heard from another man racing with Renault, is that he has removed the half spring washer and bolt, and plugged the hole in the end of the caliper! He use the plunch without half spring washer and bolt. Perhaps that will help.
I have the same system for bleeding as you, and as I said, I have tried to plug the hoses, and I can't feel any bubble when that is done. So no air in the pipes and the hoses.
I am wondering if something is so weak in the system, so it will be bent or something when I press the pedal, for example the disc brakes, they are only 7 mm thick.

By the way, about the 13 inch alu-wheels. The rules says that if someone can prove that 13 inch alu-wheels was used on 1134 before 31/12 1965, then it is OK to use them. But it has to be a picture or articel in paper from a race, not only a private picture. I have found such a picture, but it was just after 31/12 1965, in the beginning of 1966, and that was not accepted. So, if anyone have anything I will be very happy.

Have a nice day.
Gösta (Medicon)
 
Hi Medicon

If the calipers were overhauled and the dot was positioned in the wrong place then it is more than likely the repairer didn't know that the gap in the spring washer must align with the dot on the front of the piston (as per Fran's drawing) and if this is the case then there will be air trapped in at least one of the calipers.

There is a workaround to resolve this described here : http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85805&highlight=caliper

P
 
Correct, and as I answered Frans above, I have checked it up and the gap in the washer is pointing to the DOT. I have also done exactly as you say in your instruction, and loosen the caliper and turned it around when it is free, to get out all air.
Gösta
 
Gosta

Yes, sorry I mis-read your last post re the hoses.

The next thing to examine is the way the caliper "grips" the disc. One way to do this is, without using the brakes, bring the car to a standstill and get under the car as best you can and have an assistant apply the brakes firmly. Note the way that the caliper moves. If there is little no discernible movement AND the pads are wearing evenly then all is well - i.e. the caliper is aligned squarely with the disc. If they twist a bit when the brakes are applied then there's work to be done!

Common culprits are: a twisted brake hose, a bent caliper brackets, worn or bent caliper locating arms and incorrectly installed anti-rattle rubbers. The same applies to the rears but also check for wear in the wheel bearings (as mentioned above) and - this is a biggie - the flat plate that locates the caliper via a pin on the back of the axle carrier tube is bent.

These are often bent because over the years people tend to remove the caliper without slackening the big brass nut on the handbrake adjuster far enough off. If these are bent then they hold the caliper at an angle off the disc and some braking effort is required to realign the caliper before pressure is applied to the pads.

P
 
Exfrogger said:
Gosta

Yes, sorry I mis-read your last post re the hoses.

The next thing to examine is the way the caliper "grips" the disc. One way to do this is, without using the brakes, bring the car to a standstill and get under the car as best you can and have an assistant apply the brakes firmly. Note the way that the caliper moves. If there is little no discernible movement AND the pads are wearing evenly then all is well - i.e. the caliper is aligned squarely with the disc. If they twist a bit when the brakes are applied then there's work to be done!

Common culprits are: a twisted brake hose, a bent caliper brackets, worn or bent caliper locating arms and incorrectly installed anti-rattle rubbers. The same applies to the rears but also check for wear in the wheel bearings (as mentioned above) and - this is a biggie - the flat plate that locates the caliper via a pin on the back of the axle carrier tube is bent.

These are often bent because over the years people tend to remove the caliper without slackening the big brass nut on the handbrake adjuster far enough off. If these are bent then they hold the caliper at an angle off the disc and some braking effort is required to realign the caliper before pressure is applied to the pads.

P
Click to expand...

Ok Exfrogger, thank very much for all your advices. I will begin tomorrow and check all things up. Is it important that the cars is standing on all four wheels? I have a lift in my garage, and it's much easier to lift the car.
Thanks
Gösta
 
Bittersweet

This past weekend was Classic Car Racing again and it all happened at Hampton Downs in NZ. This track is becoming a favourite track for many. Skid pan in the middle is now complete and they have just finished the pits as well. It is a pity that you have to pay for it separate from your entry fee that is always too much for a financially disabled guy like me.
As mentioned before, I was equipped with the new Big Brakes and that was going to be a huge test event. The pads I am using are Pagid that is about 33% cheaper than the Ferodo S3000 pads.
Saturday morning me and Johan set off to Hamptons. Practice started for us and I took it very easy on the first section. I was disappointed at first but soon realized that the brakes improved very much with a little bit of heat. Starting the 2nd lap I was on speed and the testing started. Now I can lock the brakes very easy so that is something I will have to get used to. Our 10 mins practice time equates to about 4-5 laps. Everything felt good and my smile went right around. When I got the lap times from race control my jaw hung open. I have improved my previous best of 1:27.5 to 1:26.5 on the 2nd lap! And my second best was a 1:26.8. That is all they give you.
Johan went out trying very hard, so hard that he spun out on every lap except 1. This resulted in a bad grid position unfortunately.
Race 1 Saturday afternoon came and I started 13th on the grid of 26. The car was flying and my old competition in the form of a silver 3000cc Marcos Volvo was hauled in and left behind on the second lap, and with ease. Then the bitter started. I lost power on about the 6th lap and everybody came flying past. I retired to the pits and started the investigation. It ended in a blocked muffler! I took it home on Saturday night and did a quick fix with what I had available. Sunday morning started with 2 flying laps and then the power faded away and backfired badly. Some more investigation and this time it was more serious. Valve clearance on no3 exhaust was 0.100”. I suspect a failed cam follower will be my find when I open the motor. The end of the weekend.
Race 1 Saturday for Johan was very good. He changed fuel loads and tyre pressures and found the car handling so good he recorded his best ever times as well. He improved from a 1:31.5 to a 1:28.8. He was going so good that his brakes failed (boiled) on the last lap as well and then he cruised back to the pits. A DNF as well but with a huge smile. Then on Sunday morning he started of flying the first couple of laps and then the car died in his arms. After the race they towed him back and we started the investigation. The pickup for the Megajolt on the crank had the wires fallen off. He plugged them back and the car fired back into life again. Then I asked him “what have you done to prevent that happening again?” He responded with a “gave them more slack, cable tie to tight.” The 2nd race started Sunday Afternoon and he went flying for 2 laps and then the car died again. After the race he dived under the car and found the little wires pulled out again. He plugged them in again and drove back to the pits. When we left for home last night he still wasn’t talking to himself!
This is the in car camera footage of me on Saturday morning when I had my brief moment of happiness and then the blocked muffler stepped in and you will see all the cars passing me on my way to the pits.
I have not edited it so there might be a slight delay at the start before the lights start coming on. Again sorry for the bad sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmJtmGDa7Us

Regards,
Frans.
 
:D
I had a set JP Pistons forged for Kermit and they are great.

No problems with a fully balanced nitrited crank. The lower oil control ring certainly helped to avoid scrubbing. The skirts have no evidence of wear. The crank case pressure is well within specifications.
 
Hi All,
I found my problem tonight and it is a valve seat that came out and went scew. so the valve couldn't close.
So it is fortunately something very small and should be ready for the next race.
Regards
Frans.
 
Last race of our Series.

Hi All,
Today was the last of our series called ERC (European Racing Cars) and we will have our year end function next Saturday.
It was very busy because what we normally did over 2 days previously happened all today.

With my cylinder head back on and equipped with new valve seats I was keen on doing a full race with the new big brakes.
We set off for timed practice runs on a very wet track and with these potent brakes I had several huge lock ups. This is something I have to get used to. Maybe I will do a few Winter series races to get the hang of the new brakes on the wet. Needless to say, my times was bad which put me 13th on the grid of 29 cars.

We started the 1st race and as usual I overtook a few cars from the start line. On turn 2 with all the cars still in close vicinity of each other 2 cars rubbed wheels and caused the one to do two 360's in that cluttered piece of road. How the others missed him I can't tell, but he escaped with just the rub marks. I had a few options to avoid this carnage and when I came out on the other end I was in 4th position! This started to be the race of my life and luckily by now the track was dry as well. The car 's handling is just magic and I can go even deeper into the corners before braking. If you have seen the previous Youtube clips you will notice that with the standard brakes it was possible to outbrake almost all other cars. Now even better. Two of the fast guys that was involved in that turmoil caught me and passed me with the end result being 6th overall. I am very proud of this out of 29 cars. Me and Johan has the oldest cars on the track and the smallest engines except for one guy that claims his Escort is 1300. Well maybe it is. That makes our cars the second smallest on track.

The second and third races started and this is on a handicap. I don't do that well in these races because the traffic becomes hairy and luck plays a big roll in it as well. But I was up there mixing it with the bigger boys...... I like to brag!

I will have some footage up on Youtube later this week and you can decide for yourself.

This season was good for me although I had my ups and downs. At the 1st race in September last year my best was a 1min30sec and that has improved to my best lap today at 1min25.05 sec. That is an improvement of about 166 meters per lap calculated at my average speed.

Below is a copy of the cars entered today. The results was: 1st car 122, 2nd car 41, 3rd car 146, 4th car 71, 5th car 68, 6th car 866, 7th car 42, 8th car 461, 9th car 833, 10th car 20.

14 Adrian Hayman Auckland MGB GT 1971 Green 1800
20 Geoff Sparkes Auckland Triumph Dolomite Sprint 1975 Brown 1998
25 Rex Bentham Matamata MGB Roadster 1972 Green 1950
41 Jason Nicholl Auckland Porsche 924S 1987 Red 2479
42 Des Redgwell Papakura Volvo 242 GT 1980 Silver 2315
64 Todd Forsyth Manukau MG BGT 1973 Orange 1950
68 Renton Murray Auckland MGB Roadster 1963 Red/White 1892
70 Ray Green Auckland Marcos Volvo 3L 1970 Silver 3000
71 Adam Jones Auckland Ford Escort GT 1973 White 2000
82 Derek Moore Papakura Jaguar XJ6 1974 Green 4200
89 John Ure Helensville Jaguar Mk 2 1959 White 4200
92 Brian Yates Auckland Porsche 924S 1986 Black 2500
118 Peter van der Westhuyzen Tauranga Alfa 33 1987 Red 1712
122 David Metford Auckland Ford Escort 1971 Green 1600
135 Don Roy Hamilton MGB GT V8 1974 Blue/Silver 3528
137 John Palmer Tauranga MGB GT 1974 Burgundy 1800
146 Mike Petersen Auckland BMW M535I 1984 Red 3500
154 Miles Petersen Auckland MGB GT 1970 BRG/Turq 1800
169 Neville Thompson Waiuku MGB GT 1969 White 1800
229 Chris Browne Auckland Alfa Romeo Alfasud Ti 1982 Green 1712
233 Max Van Maanen Papakura Alfa Romeo 33 (16v) 1993 Red 1712
295 Mal Chamberlain N PlymouthFord Mk 1 Escort 1971 Green 1300
318 Gordon Legge Auckland BMW E30 318is 1988 White 1975
331 John Hudson Auckland BMW 320 1979 Cream 1990
461 Andy Durber Hamilton Fiat 128 Rally (R) 1972 Whi/Blk 1500
833 Robert Hunkin Manukau Alfa 33 1993 Red/Yell 1712
865 Johan van Heerden Hamilton Renault R8 Gordini 1965 Blue 1400
866 Francois Cronje Auckland Renault R8 Gordini 1966 Blue 1430
891 Chris Hunkin Manukau Alfa 33 1989 Yell/Blk 1712
BMC/ERC SILVER JUBILEE RACE MEETING May 7th 2011

The copy/paste of the entrants didn't work that well but you should figure it out.
I will let you know when the Youtube clip is up.

Regards
Frans.
 
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