TUJP3 engine dies, Citroen berlingo?

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Berridale

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TUJP3 engine dies, Citroen berlingo?
Van dies coming up the hill into the farm and i think it is low on fuel, not picking up fuel because of the slope.
I put more fuel in it and can hear the pump but it won't start.

Next day we get it back to level ground on a trailer and i notice we are getting fuel to manifold on the cranking .
I clean the crank position sensor of all the grime and no luck.
The coil pack was replaced with a new one 2 years back.
No poor running , fully expected fuel pump failure and to be taking the petrol tank out on the roadside!

*next step tomorrow see if any fault show on the diagnostic tool.

*Will spark /injection faults show on the diagnostic tool?
Any ideas?
 
The engine ECU will report open circuit or shorted fuel injectors. It wont report blocked injectors or fuel flow problems.
Again it can detect open or shorted coils in the coil pack. It can detect if there is no power to the coil pack. But it cant detect fowled spark plugs.
It can detect if a cylinder did not "fire" and produce power when it should have (this is called a misfire). However a misfire can be caused by a number of things, including spark,fuel and compression. So some times a misfire error does not give any clues.
To kill the engine dead that quickly would probably be a failure of an electrical supply to something or the crank angle sensor. Even if you ran out of fuel, the engine tends to cough and splutter before dying.
I could guess all day long but lets see what the scan tool says first.
 
Fault code P1612/P40
Or
P0135/P40
Indicates uper exhaust sensor?
Tried another coil pack and TDC unit nothing.
Is there a fuse some where?

Can't find my Noid Light so can't check for pulse.
 
Seasink,
"P1612 is a manufacturer specific code - my book says antidémarrage, = immobiliser, "Cannot read the ADC".".
"ADC" what does that mean?
I only have one key for the van , plain key no buttons.
Does this mean the immobiliser has come on and cut the ignition?
No light on dashboard to indicate trouble.
Travel every day on a bad dirt road, may have caused some problem?

How do i i get around this?
 
Can't help with the abbreviation. If the code isn't spurious, it may mean a bad key chip, or a COM2000 fault not communicating with the computer.. I don't know if immobiliser trouble can stop a car once it has started.
 
" I don't know if immobiliser trouble can stop a car once it has started."
It stopped on a steep bumpy part of the drive in to the property.
They key is just a plain key , didn't get the other one with the car.
Maybe they fixed the chip to the ignition lock, or close by?
There is nothing on the dashboard to indicate an immobiliser fault.
 
The engine ECU does not poll the BSI for the transponder code once the engine is running. So loss of the transponder wont stop the car once the engine is running.
The P0135 error may bring on the engine light, but that's all. It wont effect the performance of the engine. The heater just speeds up the reaction time of the O2 sensor for a cold engine.
I cant figure out if you have 1 or 2 faults.
1. The P1612 (what ever it may be) has stopped the engine and is causing it to not start.
2. Something else stopped the engine (perhaps it did run out of fuel) and the immobilizer system is now not working, so it wont start?

"I only have one key for the van , plain key no buttons."
Can you pull the key apart? Is there a small black "chip", about 7mm by 4mm and slightly wedge shaped inside the key? Have you found something like that on the floor? Something like that taped near the steering lock?
 
seasink said:
P0135, a standard code, is an open circuit on the heater in the upstream lambda sensor.
Click to expand...

ozVTR said:
The P0135 error may bring on the engine light, but that's all. It wont effect the performance of the engine. The heater just speeds up the reaction time of the O2 sensor for a cold engine.
Click to expand...

If the engine started and ran I'd agree the heater open circuit simply affects the reaction time, but, since it doesn't start then the missing 12 volts becomes important as it often is the same 12v circuit supplying the injectors.
Check fuses and find the multimeter to confirm you have 12v at the injectors when cranking.
The immobiliser code may be a red herring, I often see it on my 306 after cranking with low battery.
 
"but, since it doesn't start then the missing 12 volts becomes important as it often is the same 12v circuit supplying the injectors."
Now wondering if the wiring to the exhaust sensors is damaged from a stick etc that the car won't start?
Any ideas?

.Just a plain key , can't be pulled apart.
One of the faults is the Immo.

Will check fuses today.
 
Berridale said:
Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Test if you have 12v at the injectors when cranking.
I know zilch about the Berlingo, my usual methodology is look at wiring diagram to see which fuses and relays are involved.
 
I found a wiring diagram for the Berlingo from 2002.
wiring2.jpg
 
AlexB said:
If the engine started and ran I'd agree the heater open circuit simply affects the reaction time, but, since it doesn't start then the missing 12 volts becomes important as it often is the same 12v circuit supplying the injectors.
Click to expand...
The P0135 code does not prove that 12V is "missing" from the heater circuit. It does indicate that there is no continuity from the engine ECU through that heater circuit to a +12V source. Including simply an open circuit heater. But lets take that one step further.
The P0135 code is specifically for the upstream O2 sensor heater circuit and nothing else. BSM fuse F15 (it looks like it says F15) supplies power to both O2 sensor heaters, all 4 injectors and both coils of the coil pack. BUT we only have one error code for one heater circuit? I would have expected a slew of error codes if F15 blew (or for some reason there was no power to those circuits)!
The engine ECU seems to be working as it is sending out two error codes. I.E. it's "talking" to the rest of the system. AND it's not complaining about anything other than these two errors. I'm not saying it can't be anything else, but, the P1612 error is probably what is stopping the engine from starting!
The only thing we have to go on is the P1612 error! True, it could be a lot of stuff, but that's just a random or "best" guess.
I do not have an explanation as to why the engine stopped in the first place, or one explanation to account for both occurrences, but, one problem at a time.

If it's a "plain" key I would assume it's not an original (Peugeot) key? Can you post a picture of the key please?

Thanks for the circuit Seasink.
 
Last edited:
I had a look around the ignition lock and can't see the Immo chip, so i wonder why it went at all?
Is the voltage that runs through the ECU 12volts?
 

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Berridale said:
I had a look around the ignition lock and can't see the Immo chip, so i wonder why it went at all?
Is the voltage that runs through the ECU 12volts?
Click to expand...
That key is identical in shape to that of my Series II Xantia, which although built in 1998, definitely has an immobiliser chip.

Series I Xantias, and XMs, which rely on a keypad rather than an immobiliser chip, have the same 3D blade, but the plastic grip is a different shape (and does not contain a chip).

The chip (embedded in the handle at the top of the blade) is read by the chip reader, which is a ring around the ignition lock barrel, and really looks like part of the trim. The giveaway is the electrical connection - but this can only be seen by removing the cowling from around the steering column and ignition switch.

When I turn the key of my SII Xantia to the "on" position, I briefly see a yellow symbol - a key inserted into the RHS of a square. On the Xantia this is on the RHS of the red lamp that indicates open doors.

As it happens, I also have a D9 406, which also has an immobiliser. The 406 will not start, and the yellow immobiliser symbol stays on. I have read the codes, and there was a code indicating that there was an immobiliser problem (sorry, don't remember the code). This can be caused by water in the driver's footwell. There is an electrical cable with a connector plug under the carpet, which obviously does not like being wet.

Sure enough, there was water in the footwell, but drying it out has not solved the problem - cutting out the plug and permanently soldering all the connections may be necessary, but I haven't tried this (the connectors in both halves of the plug do not look corroded).

Here is the thread where Tom's and my problems were discussed: https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/i...e-had-pugs-for-60-years-thankstomfrog.141276/

Cheers

Alec
 
irrespective of the codes, have you checked to see if the cam shaft is turning when you crank it ,could it have possibly jumped some teeth so now nothing is happening at the correct time ,it may be far enough out so it doesn't run but not so far that it makes some crunching noises
 
Have you tried a BSI reset?
Basically, open the bonnet, close all the doors. Wait 60 seconds, disconnect the battery, wait 60 seconds. reconnect the battery, wait 60 seconds, try the engine.

Personally, I would get the key (the RFID chip) checked by anyone who can copy immobilizer keys. An automotive locksmith or even some Mr Minute's might be able to do it.

But some others are suggesting other things.
timingbeltcover.jpg
If you want to check the camshaft, remove the timing belt cover on the top of the engine. Check the belt and that it rotates with the engine. Checking the timing involves pinning the flywheel (or flex plate) and checking the orientation of the camshaft sprocket. I don't think you could get the timing so far out that it would stop running but not bend at least some of the valves.

Yes the engine ECU uses 12V Power which comes from the BSI (the fuse box in the engine bay).
Fuses F8 and F4 supply power to the engine ECU.
The supply for F4 comes from the ignition switch and as such would turn the ECU on and off.
F8 is constant power.

F15 runs the heavy loads such as the injectors, O2 sensor heaters and the coils.
The power for f15 is switches by a relay in the BSI and is fed directly from the battery.

While you cleaned the crank angle sensor it's possible that the sensor is faulty. If you use a multimeter on ohms, it should read a few ohms across the terminals. When the engine is cranked over, you should read a few volts AC.

I am still concerned about the immobilizer error. However it could be an old temporary fault and consequently irrelevant. Will your scanner clear that fault? If so, does it come back when you try to start the engine?
 
And I am concerned about the state of the immobiliser dashboard warning light! If it does not stay lit when ignition is switched on, then all is probably well in that department.

I believe the engine bay fuse box is known as the "BSM". The BSI is the "Body Systems Interface" - a computer usually found under the dash that provides overall management of much of the car's electronics.

That said, rebooting the BSI is a good idea, as it does manage the interface between the immobiliser and the ECU, and your explanation is good. Just add the following: make sure every light and accessory is switched off, wind down driver's window, make sure all doors and boot are closed, then remove the key from the ignition (through the open window).

Then wait a couple of minutes for the BSI put itself into sleep mode before disconnecting the battery. I would wait considerably more than 1 minute before reconnecting battery - at least 10 minutes, to make sure that all capacitors etc. are really drained.

After reconnecting battery, wait two minutes for BSI to boot up, then reach through open window and switch on parking lights. If all is well, insert key and carry on.
 
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