That other French car...

By the way, the last manufacturer to use the Ardun heads on the Ford flathead engine was Chrysler. In 1955 Simca purchased Chrysler of France for cash and stock, continuing to production the Vedette under the Simca name. In 1957 Chrysler purchased Ford's intertest in Simca and gained a toehold in a European auto manufacturer. When Simca stopped production of the Vedette in 1963 (or so), Chrysler shipped the tooling for the car and engine to Brazil. By the late 1960s the Chrysler Esplanada, as the Simca Vedette was now called, apparently continued to use the Ford block, but with Ardun heads. The last Esplanada was built in 1971.

Patrick Clement wrote:
 
That other French car..

Former pres. of the Simca Car Club of WA ,John Pickles had a swag of literature on the OHV Simca Vedette. I think he may have passed it on to the committee of the now, Simca Car Club of Australia.
Production of the Vedette was continued in Brazil with a few body changes.

John Pickles had regular correspondence with a Vedette enthusiast from Brazil. :)
 
Originally posted by Westair
By the way, the last manufacturer to use the Ardun heads on the Ford flathead engine was Chrysler...

...the Simca Vedette was now called, apparently continued to use the Ford block, but with Ardun heads. The last Esplanada was built in 1971.

Patrick Clement wrote:
Click to expand...

While I'm anxious to know what Patrick wrote, I'm more eager to know if they were actually Ardun heads.
 
Westair said:
In 1955 Simca purchased Chrysler of France for cash and stock, continuing to production the Vedette under the Simca name. In 1957 Chrysler purchased Ford's intertest in Simca and gained a toehold in a European auto manufacturer. When Simca stopped production of the Vedette in 1963 (or so), Chrysler shipped the tooling for the car and engine to Brazil. By the late 1960s the Chrysler Esplanada, as the Simca Vedette was now called, apparently continued to use the Ford block, but with Ardun heads. The last Esplanada was built in 1971...
Click to expand...

Tell me if I'm dreaming, but..
Didn't the Chrysler Centura sold here in the '70s begin life as a Simca??
 
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Originally posted by Wildebeest
Former pres. of the Simca Car Club of WA, John Pickles had a swag of literature on the OHV Simca Vedette. I think he may have passed it on to the committee of the now, Simca Car Club of Australia.
Production of the Vedette was continued in Brazil with a few body changes.

John Pickles had regular correspondence with a Vedette enthusiast from Brazil.
Click to expand...

Would be good to find out if the heads are available... surely they'd have to be?

Yes, the Simca Car Club of WA sort of branched out and became the Club for the whole of Australia. Being a couple of hours behind the rest of the country, they had time to change their minds and recognise that Simcas are worth something before it was too late.
 
Time Trial

Westair said:
Simcas went very well in competition and many were raced in Australia. They nearly won the first Armstrong 500.
This is also interesting.

By 1957, SIMCA had taken over its own United States distribution at 445 Park Avenue. The success of the Aronde continued when, by the end of 1957, over 538,000 SIMCA Aronde's had come off the production line at Nanterre. The Aronde had quickly become a bigger sales success than its competition, the Peugeot 203. It held endurance records, had its motor modified, received frequent freshening ups, great publicity, super dynamics and the charisma of its President Director General, Pigozzi. But, it was time for SIMCA to do something. After 6 years, and the relative sales failure of the recently semi-rejuvenated Oceane, the Aronde was showing its age. The SIMCA Aronde established a new world record by travelling 62,137 miles, approximately 2 1/2 times around the world, in less than 37 days, averaging 70.02 mph, at Montlhery, France. On 19 Dec 57, an Aronde began its trip that set a new trans American speed record. The SIMCA made it from New York to Los Angeles in 46 hours and 3 minutes. The previous record of 47 hours, 37 minutes was held by a V8 powered American car.
Click to expand...



Probably made up extra hour odd by not having to stop to fill up with fuel.

The American fuel guzzlers of that age probably gained on the fuel pump when running : a quote from Phil Irving referring to V8 engines - "you can't fill them when the engine is running"

It surpising who much distane you lose during fduel stops.
 
Ray Bell said:
Would be good to find out if the heads are available... surely they'd have to be?

Yes, the Simca Car Club of WA sort of branched out and became the Club for the whole of Australia. Being a couple of hours behind the rest of the country, they had time to change their minds and recognise that Simcas are worth something before it was too late.
Click to expand...



was the time difference enough to catch them before they rusted though :D
 
Ray Bell said:
Simcas, for the uninitiated, were way better than 203s and 403s for rust!

I had some with none at all, and many were the same. Just good cars, the drains for the sills etc worked well.
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are there any french cars made after the war that didn't rust ?

french steel in the 40's and 50's was not good steel, not compared to what came out of the states that's for sure and even into the 60's the french steel still wasn't real good

have a look in a padock and find a 50's model american car and the french equivalent and the french car will be stuffed

i'm not saying that the pugs were any good it's anything french going back to the 40's-60's era
 
Rust In French Cars....

pugrambo said:
are there any french cars made after the war that didn't rust ?

french steel in the 40's and 50's was not good steel, not compared to what came out of the states that's for sure and even into the 60's the french steel still wasn't real good

have a look in a padock and find a 50's model american car and the french equivalent and the french car will be stuffed

i'm not saying that the pugs were any good it's anything french going back to the 40's-60's era
Click to expand...


I take your point about rust. But many of the French car cars you are targetting are 40 years plus old.

Compare with a Pommy or Australian car and they will be pretty rusty as well.
As to American cars car I don't have much experience.

Peugeot has also used adequate but not over engineered section of steel. The Poms and Yanks tended to over engineer and hence had more steel to rust away anyway.

IMHO it is not the steel quality but the stupid (in hindsight) design of the under body parts. Crevices, pockets, voids and other traps for dirt and mud.
Peugeots tend to corrode only when neglected due to mud other foreign matter builds up. They design the chassis so it almost impossible to remove the crud.

The surface treatment is also pretty average.
 
Stu17 said:
Tell me if I'm dreaming, but..
Didn't the Chrysler Centura sold here in the '70s begin life as a Simca??
Click to expand...
Yes, the Centuras were a Chrysler 180/200 designed by SIMCA.
Note the Brazilian car was made in 1968, 130 HP wasn't a bad number for a 2.4 litre engine, the side valves would have got nowhere near that.
Graham
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
Note the Brazilian car was made in 1968, 130 HP wasn't a bad number for a 2.4 litre engine..
Graham
Click to expand...

Only 130 Bhp from a 2.4 L engine? :eek:

The Abarth Simca 2000 engine produced 180 Bhp from a 1.9 L engine in 1964 :headbang:.

The Abarth Simca 1300 (cc) produced from 125 to 138 BHP :eek:

The 1300 was the European Hillclimb champ the first year it competed
and still looks like it could give most cars a good run for their money.
These Simcas really are my dream cars but I'm not aware on any in Australia?
Anyone know if any of these mini monsters ever made it to Oz?
cheers,
 

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robmac said:
It surpising who much distane you lose during fduel stops.
Click to expand...

A very valid comment about fuel consumption, still relevant to this day.

On ya Rob

ed ge
 
That other French...

Ray Bell said:
Would be good to find out if the heads are available... surely they'd have to be?

Yes, the Simca Car Club of WA sort of branched out and became the Club for the whole of Australia. Being a couple of hours behind the rest of the country, they had time to change their minds and recognise that Simcas are worth something before it was too late.
Click to expand...

Ahem! I believe you folk are celebrating Labour Day. We had ours last week!!

What have you got planned for the OHV Vedette heads Ray?
Don't make the common mistake in thinking that the Vedette [French Ford] engine is identical to the American Ford V8 60.
For starters they had adjustable valves, a distributor that was mounted vertical and a cast alloy crank case / sump assembly.

I would dearly like to get some detailed information on the Gordini Simca 4 cyl. racing cars. I have the usual pictures of the cars but no full on tech. info such as chassis, suspension and eng mods.
Those fortunate among us who have owned a Simca 8-1200 have an affinity with the Gordini Simca. These great little racers used the engine, gearbox, diff. and suspension, particularly the Dubonnet front end, from the ordinary Simca 8-1200. Include in this line up the beautiful finned alloy brake drums. :cool:
 
biologist said:
Only 130 Bhp from a 2.4 L engine? :eek:

The Abarth Simca 2000 engine produced 180 Bhp from a 1.9 L engine in 1964 :headbang:.

The Abarth Simca 1300 (cc) produced from 125 to 138 BHP :eek:

The 1300 was the European Hillclimb champ the first year it competed
and still looks like it could give most cars a good run for their money.
These Simcas really are my dream cars but I'm not aware on any in Australia?
Anyone know if any of these mini monsters ever made it to Oz?
cheers,
Click to expand...
You're talking about competition motors there.
A more meaningful comparison, the 2.2 litre 505 GTI motor had less than 130hp and this had fuel injection , overhead cam and 9.8 to 1 compression.
The Vedette motor had pre WW2 origins
Graham
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
You're talking about competition motors there.
A more meaningful comparison, the 2.2 litre 505 GTI motor had less than 130hp and this had fuel injection , overhead cam and 9.8 to 1 compression.
The Vedette motor had pre WW2 origins
Graham
Click to expand...

Very true.
I just wanted to talk up those Abarth Simcas though. My dad used to
own a Simca before he had the tribe and mum still recites the tales
of his manic thrashing of the Simca around Syndey terrorising one and
all. He calmed down somewhat with the purchase of his "Family car"
a Borgward sedan....
Cheers,
 
robmac said:
I take your point about rust. But many of the French car cars you are targetting are 40 years plus old.

Compare with a Pommy or Australian car and they will be pretty rusty as well.
As to American cars car I don't have much experience.

Peugeot has also used adequate but not over engineered section of steel. The Poms and Yanks tended to over engineer and hence had more steel to rust away anyway.

IMHO it is not the steel quality but the stupid (in hindsight) design of the under body parts. Crevices, pockets, voids and other traps for dirt and mud.
Peugeots tend to corrode only when neglected due to mud other foreign matter builds up. They design the chassis so it almost impossible to remove the crud.

The surface treatment is also pretty average.
Click to expand...


even so but didn't the centura have a problem with rust ?

or was that something to do with them bieng left out in the paddock for too long just like the VL commodore which lead to them bieng very prone to rusting shortly down the line after buying them
 
I've got to say the issue of how good the steel is or was is pretty much a silly argument...

There are two sides to it... the type of steel and then the way it's made, allied to mistakes in assembly.

I believe that the very thin steel in 404s was a higher tensile strength than that in many contemporary cars. It therefore rusted through quicker, and this was exacerbated by a lack of understanding of how rust gets started in cars.

A 404 built today would probably have a good chance of being a rust free car.

403s had problems in Australia because of the heavy proofkoting.

Holden went to a higher tensile strength steel about 1977 or so, enabling their cars to be built from lighter gauge stock.
 
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