Tell me about French vans

[Sans_sagesse]

I guess they are not the most exciting thing to chat about on a car enthusiast forum, but I have found very little chat about vans.

We had to hire a ute the other day, $350 p/d I think it was. A lot of faffing around, worrying about damaging it (it was brand new, didn't help) and trying to get it back in time for closing, etc.

So as we need to help relatives move stuff and we ourselves start to look at having to offload a tonne of stuff in coming years, the idea of owning a van for a while at least is starting to make some sense.

So it's going to be French, preferably a manual with 3 seats up front (because why not, could be useful), hopefully not much more than $10k. I am uncertain about the size of a van; I like Berlingo/Partner/Kangoo for easy parking etc, but wonder if they will come up frustratingly short when I might need to shift bigger stuff (I am ignoring the SWB models, only LWB). So Dispatch/Expert/Trafic might be the go, and I am partial to the Expert 2008-2013 era with the RHK engine. Also want a viable towbar on whatever I get (or the option of being able to fit one) for the box trailer I have sitting here (with nothing as yet in the fleet to tow it with). A higher towing capacity could also be useful for towing a car trailer for bringing home strays, but that's not a mandatory thing. Expert has 2000kg tow cap, but I bet it's only something like 100kg TBM. Have to check.

Anyway, does anyone here have experience with any of these vans and have any advice on what to look for?

 

[DoubleChevron]

v8 land rover discovery 1 ... cheap as chips, large inside ... can tow 4 tons. You're not really going ot get a tow rating with commercial vans I'd imagine

throw it on a club permit, and if its not driven a lot, running costs would be cheap (they use a LOT of fuel!)

 

[Sans_sagesse]

v8 land rover discovery 1 ... cheap as chips, large inside ... can tow 4 tons. You're not really going ot get a tow rating with commercial vans I'd imagine

throw it on a club permit, and if its not driven a lot, running costs would be cheap (they use a LOT of fuel!)

Towing is not a priority, more a nice to have. I can't cope with any more Land Rovers. I have owned 3. Also, a good Disco 1 was always hard to find, even more so now.

 

[Greenpeace]

My '99 Berlingo is nice to drive, teriffic ride for a van, not particularly good on fuel for a 1.4 petrol, and a bit underpowered. Load height and width is good but length is a problem, (if you're like me and buy the odd motorcycle or two).
A LWB Diesel Berlingo would be a good thing, but not sure what the trailer capacity would be?
Bit left field, but an old Falcon, Commodore or F100/250 ambulance gives you the car like ride, good cargo capacity, good towing capacity, good power and cheap (and easy) parts/servicing.
Only problem is finding a good one, but they are out there.
Even a '90s Falcon panel van, you can still pick a nice one up for under your $10K budget (Holdens are too dear).
I've got a '71 F100 ambulance with a 5 litre, 6 cylinder auto and love it.

 

[shibuichi]

Mitsubishi Magna wagon also has comfy seats, excellent internal capacity and additional moving potential with roof racks and a towball. Cheap spare parts from the row of cars lined up at the wreckers.

 

[Bowie]

#off topic#

Is a c5 wagon a silly thing? I note some versions can tow 1500,1600kg..

I won’t bring a Land Cruiser home but it might a Toyota Corolla with a 4age on a home made trailer with log books, roll cage, spare wheels etc.

Not that I was looking to tow a Toyota Corolla with something more interesting than a commodore…

How much stuff can you fit in a c5 wagon?

 

[shibuichi]

I have no direct experience with the French van options but for the Expert/Trafic type vehicle you’ll probably be looking at abused ex tradie/courier vans, so best wishes finding a good one. I would be looking for a high-top model that you can comfortably stand up in for campervan conversion potential.

For car parking ease that meets the French requirement, I’d look for a Peugeot 505 wagon, though I don’t know their towing capacity.

 

[Greenpeace]

#off topic#

Is a c5 wagon a silly thing? I note some versions can tow 1500,1600kg..

I won’t bring a Land Cruiser home but it might a Toyota Corolla with a 4age on a home made trailer with log books, roll cage, spare wheels etc.

Not that I was looking to tow a Toyota Corolla with something more interesting than a commodore…

How much stuff can you fit in a c5 wagon?

I've never towed a decent load behind a FWD, could be interesting going up a hill in less than ideal conditions?

 

[DoubleChevron]

I've never towed a decent load behind a FWD, could be interesting going up a hill in less than ideal conditions?

CX's are fantastic towcars... I've towed a lot behind them. They have far more traction than any other FWD car I've ever driven.

bloody bargain.... a shitbox that will tow 4ton down to $3500

 

[Andrew Watkins]

My '99 Berlingo is nice to drive, teriffic ride for a van, not particularly good on fuel for a 1.4 petrol, and a bit underpowered. Load height and width is good but length is a problem, (if you're like me and buy the odd motorcycle or two).
A LWB Diesel Berlingo would be a good thing, but not sure what the trailer capacity would be?
Bit left field, but an old Falcon, Commodore or F100/250 ambulance gives you the car like ride, good cargo capacity, good towing capacity, good power and cheap (and easy) parts/servicing.
Only problem is finding a good one, but they are out there.
Even a '90s Falcon panel van, you can still pick a nice one up for under your $10K budget (Holdens are too dear).
I've got a '71 F100 ambulance with a 5 litre, 6 cylinder auto and love it.

The F100 Ambulances can be entertaining - there was a generation with fibreglass bodies which were very light, especially at the back, and which went quite hard. They had a habit of rolling and soon began to sprout external roll cages.

I remember years ago arriving at Essendon airport in pissing rain with a very bad baby after a trip which had already been entertaining, in the nastiest possible way. We loaded and I said to the Ambo „ we need to get to the Women‘s asap“ . I immediately regretted this, as a crazed grin spread across his face and a gleam developed in his eye.

We left the airport at pace and were rounding the corner onto the Tulla at about 140+ ( I was otherwise occupied so wasn’t watching speedo too closely, although was paying some attention ) when he managed to get it sideways across a couple of lanes. Fortunately got it back, all credit to him, but it was bad for the underwear.

THere are times when one wants to be the driver and not the passenger


Andrew

 

[Greenpeace]

For car parking ease that meets the French requirement, I’d look for a Peugeot 505 wagon, though I don’t know their towing capacity.

Look like between 1300 and 1500 kg depending on the year. The later ones could (legally) tow more.

 

[Greenpeace]

Looks like CXs are only rated at 1000 or 1100 kg depending on the year.
I used to tow sh#t up and down the eastern states for a living about 35 to 40 years ago and some of the things you saw were "interesting" to say the least.
The one that sticks in the mind the most was a FWD Morris 1100 between Narrabri and Moree. It was coming the other way and the front end was probably 6" higher than it should have been.
Old matey had what looked to be about a 20' full height, tandem axle caravan on the back.
Lucky for him there's no hills in that neck of the woods.

 

[Greenpeace]

Interesting article on calculating towing capacity back before all manufacturers did it as a matter of course. Note they take all elements of a vehicle's design into account.
Scroll down and there's a comprehensive list of 1969 cars there, including what are now French classics. Note the formula weights on the far right are in hundredweights (cwt) near enough to 50 kg for you young uns.

Guide to 1969 Towing Cars

 

[Greenpeace]

This is several months old, but I actually only stumbled on it a couple of days ago.
Old matey is quite serious in this video for a change.
Got to feel for the guy in jail (in a way), young pricks can steal a car, kill a couple of strangers and get off with a slap on the f#cking wrist.

 

[Sans_sagesse]

I have no direct experience with the French van options but for the Expert/Trafic type vehicle you’ll probably be looking at abused ex tradie/courier vans, so best wishes finding a good one. I would be looking for a high-top model that you can comfortably stand up in for campervan conversion potential.

For car parking ease that meets the French requirement, I’d look for a Peugeot 505 wagon, though I don’t know their towing capacity.

Yes plenty are knocked around, with heaps of km, but have found a couple of one-owner vehicles that don't seem to have been abused, but who knows. None are near me, of course. The relatively tall, long and wide enclosed load area, located relatively close to the ground is what the attaction of the vans against a ute or station wagon/SUV. Station wagons like the C5 just are not tall or long enough to load much stuff. Towing is secondary; 2000kg is enough, of course would like more 'just in case' but probably won't tow more than a 750kg max box trailer.

Would love that Rangie (never seen one with that dash before) but not going to carry the loads inside I would need it to.

 

[Greenpeace]

Yes plenty are knocked around, with heaps of km, but have found a couple of one-owner vehicles that don't seem to have been abused, but who knows. None are near me, of course. The relatively tall, long and wide enclosed load area, located relatively close to the ground is what the attaction of the vans against a ute or station wagon/SUV. Station wagons like the C5 just are not tall or long enough to load much stuff. Towing is secondary; 2000kg is enough, of course would like more 'just in case' but probably won't tow more than a 750kg max box trailer.

I was looking for a bigger French van a while back and couldn't help noticing there seemed to be a number of relatively low km diesel ones (mainly Peugeots) advertised as "needing injectors". Being a bit naive to modern diesels, I was like "meh, just a set of injectors".
A quick Google soon changed my mind on buying one that "just needs injectors".

 

[Sans_sagesse]

I was looking for a bigger French van a while back and couldn't help noticing there seemed to be a number of relatively low km diesel ones (mainly Peugeots) advertised as "needing injectors". Being a bit naive to modern diesels, I was like "meh, just a set of injectors".
A quick Google soon changed my mind on buying one that "just needs injectors".

Interesting. There's a Berlingo 4sale needing exactly that. Better see what that's all about. The Expert has a variation of the 2.0-litre diesel that C5 X7 uses, I think, and so a fairly common engine. Only 'major' problem is timing belt, where some owners don't seem to know or care that they need to be replaced. Finding out when the belt needs replacement is another rabbit hole; best I coud find was on an Expert for sale at a dealer in Sydney MY13, every six years (forgot the km, 90K km?) That Expert is fixed 'wholesale' price, but it's actually more like retail price for a vehicle that is not that great. Looking at that van is partly why I have stalled on the idea of grabbing a one-way flight to Qld to look at and buy a particular van up there. It gets expensive just to look at something I then don't want to buy. It could be a great van, or very ordinary...

 

[seasink]

Don't forget you can buy a Peugeot van for much less money if it has a Fiat badge. The RHH engine is there too.

 

[Greenpeace]

Interesting. There's a Berlingo 4sale needing exactly that. Better see what that's all about. The Expert has a variation of the 2.0-litre diesel that C5 X7 uses, I think, and so a fairly common engine. Only 'major' problem is timing belt, where some owners don't seem to know or care that they need to be replaced. Finding out when the belt needs replacement is another rabbit hole; best I coud find was on an Expert for sale at a dealer in Sydney MY13, every six years (forgot the km, 90K km?) That Expert is fixed 'wholesale' price, but it's actually more like retail price for a vehicle that is not that great. Looking at that van is partly why I have stalled on the idea of grabbing a one-way flight to Qld to look at and buy a particular van up there. It gets expensive just to look at something I then don't want to buy. It could be a great van, or very ordinary...

A guy I know bought a diesel VW Caddy, ran sweet as a nut for a little while, then it started playing up.
He had it fixed at VW, who charged him just on $5K to supply, fit and code the 4 injectors.
A mate with a diesel Prado was charged just over $1K to supply, fit and code 1 injector at Toyota.
You can buy aftermarket injectors, but even these are a few hundred a pop and still need to be fitted and coded.
I flew to Sydney (from Brisbane) in 2019 to buy my Berlingo. The taxi drive from the airport out to where the van was cost more than the flight.
I sold it a few months later, then bought it back again a couple of years ago.

 

[DoubleChevron]

Looks like CXs are only rated at 1000 or 1100 kg depending on the year.
I used to tow sh#t up and down the eastern states for a living about 35 to 40 years ago and some of the things you saw were "interesting" to say the least.
The one that sticks in the mind the most was a FWD Morris 1100 between Narrabri and Moree. It was coming the other way and the front end was probably 6" higher than it should have been.
Old matey had what looked to be about a 20' full height, tandem axle caravan on the back.
Lucky for him there's no hills in that neck of the woods.

I think my handbook here says 1300kg for a CX. So it'll tow a pommy caravan legally. I have never towed easily double that weight behind a CX

A phenomenal tow car, but the capacities these days will not tow anything. Modern caravans and trailers and immensely heavy compared to the CX's era. This is the reason I ended up with the shitbox here.

As soon as you add "towing" to the criteria, you end with a 4wd.... unless you want to drive a tray truck or similar. The twin cab utes (that seem to "not be great" at anything) are the default purchase for most. I woudln't bother myself, bendy, twisty chassis, crap ride quality, tiny ute tray, HUGE overhang to the towbar... heavy restrictions on the advertised tow capacity if your read the conditions. A huge compromise in everyway. I'd rather a decent sedan/wank tank and a trailer for the rare times I need the extra capacity of the tiny little tray.

seeya
Shane L.