Takethatf@^$!&clutchcableandstickitupyaa$$
- Thread starter Harley
- Start date
My CX Pallas has a 1943 ammo box full of treasures in the boot. Works better than the chaff bag, but it is a newer car of course.
Like the wind-up windows in the 4CV Renaults, perhaps the chaff bag was an "export only" fitting - John Reynolds might have missed a detail like that. Not that he missed many details........
I really lust after a BVH car. It's probably unhealthy.
If Shane had a D Special, he would presumably fit a powered hydraulic clutch and post all those wonderful photos and descriptions.
Cheers
Guilty as charged your honour!:roflmao:
One day have a look under the bonnet of Geoff G's DS23ie Pallas BVH with aircon. You will shudder! However it is a superb car to drive.
Cut it up and use it to make a safety catch for the bonnet. That will guarantee that your bonnet will never fly open. If you ever need it, you can just uninstall it from the safety catch position, return it to it's previous form and use it.
/Ducks
Daffy ducks.
Runs for cover.
When replacing cable there is a small cup which centres it. This often falls out and you may miss it in the dark. If not used cable will fray very qiuckly,Andy
Clutch cable
When replacing cable there is a small cup which centres it and is easily dropped in the dark as you remove old one. If you dont use it the cable will fray very quickly,Andy.
When replacing cable there is a small cup which centres it and is easily dropped in the dark as you remove old one. If you dont use it the cable will fray very quickly,Andy.
There is a small cup which centres the cable where it passes through firewall,usually drops out as old cable replaced and if not used,new cable quickly frays. Store spare in front channel inside car,Andy.
I'm touching an enormous eucalypt as I type but in but in 26 years of constant DS ownership and tens of thousands of kilometers I've never had a cable or pivot break on my cars.
I've seen some pretty crappy repro ones. Almost impossible to pull in and out of the casing by hand.
So what went this time? Cable or pivot?
It was interesting re-reading this thread. My car has one of Denton's roller bearing pivots in it and this, I suppose, means that the cable is not dealing with the stress of pulling a sleeved arm but a very low resistance arm.
I think UFO's on the right track about lower pivot resistance. I rebuilt my worn pivot with a much larger pin and the pedal feel is much better now.
If the cable has failed at the foreward end it likely caused by a worn pivot allowing the cable to skew out of line. This can also happen if the base plate of the pivot is flexing. Note that the later base plates were secured by two screws whilst the earlier ones had one screw and a peg.
If the cable has failed at the foreward end it likely caused by a worn pivot allowing the cable to skew out of line. This can also happen if the base plate of the pivot is flexing. Note that the later base plates were secured by two screws whilst the earlier ones had one screw and a peg.
Not quite correct Craig.
A properly serviced (lubricated from time to time) pivot with a minimum of free play in the pivot shaft will last a long time and not be under significant stress or put the cable under stress.
Neglect over time has the unknowing blaming the pivot for the failure of the cable.
Original pivots last about 30 years, usually without any maintenance.
There has been a genuine NOS pivot for sale on ebay in the UK for the best part of 8 months with no takers at about $60.
Can't see any advantage in paying over $200.
The design for RHD cars is a poorly executed solution to what is otherwise a sound design in LHD.
People making replacement cables also can be put to task. The quality is usually inferior, the material is inferior, the wire is the wrong type and there is insufficient heat protection. Of course, the ability of the owner to relay the salient points of operation to the cable maker and the general Citroen D owners desire to pay nothing for the best usually results in an unsuitable compromise.
Cable this time. Given that Cars of France moved in November 2010 I have got 3+ years out of the cable maybe 4.
I agree that the aftermarket pivot is adding to the cause, I've got a good, albeit broken at the end, oem pivot I can repair, but it's 800k's away at the minute..
This is the other contributing factor, tens of thousands of k's over 26 years across a few?several cars is not a lot. I've had this D on the road since 2006 and have driven it like a modern daily driver ever since, it just makes me happy! I've just returned from round trip Melbourne to Sydney, next week it will be Melbourne to Canberra via the coast. Surely there are not many D's getting driven everyday like this?
I do believe we are taking the piss out of Citroen by keeping the old girls alive on the roads but sooner or later the amount of maintenance will catch up. Last trip I replaced both front hubs, L/H driveshaft, R/H triax, replaced all boots etc. All on the same day I drove it from Canberra to Melbourne... that Nissan Cube is looking attractive right now
Harley
It turned out I had an OEM cable hiding among my 2cv bits Difference in the two cables is fairly clear, the OEM has a much thicker sheath with heavier gauge banded wire, the cable is of the same thickness but the the OEM has thinner strands therefore more of them, it all just seems slightly heavier built.
The pivot was free and moving smoothly, lets hope!
Harley
Difference in the two cables is fairly clear, the OEM has a much thicker sheath with heavier gauge banded wire, the cable is of the same thickness but the the OEM has thinner strands therefore more of them, it all just seems slightly heavier built.The pivot was free and moving smoothly, lets hope!
Harley
Welded and ready to install:
HArley
Those reproduction bell cranks are rubbish. The metal is way too soft and this is why the hook ends up bending and breaking. The original steel was much better quality but whoever makes the reproduction ones did not consider that fact.
This little item is the reason I got out of D series cars and bought a CX.
Cables break once the original bell crank gets worn in the pivot and the whole actuating arm rocks offline. The cable then bends too much and hits the end of the adjustment sleeve causing the cable end wires to bend sharply at the point just beyond the solid end. Then the cable wires fatigue and break.
To repair the item properly a high quality bell crank has to be made, or purchased. then the whole installation has to be set up exactly as per the Book. Failure to follow this fastidiousness will only result in regular cable failure.
I reckon that the welded up tip will fail again very quickly.
Cheers Gerry
No no no not the cooob !!!Cable this time. Given that Cars of France moved in November 2010 I have got 3+ years out of the cable maybe 4.
I agree that the aftermarket pivot is adding to the cause, I've got a good, albeit broken at the end, oem pivot I can repair, but it's 800k's away at the minute..
This is the other contributing factor, tens of thousands of k's over 26 years across a few?several cars is not a lot. I've had this D on the road since 2006 and have driven it like a modern daily driver ever since, it just makes me happy! I've just returned from round trip Melbourne to Sydney, next week it will be Melbourne to Canberra via the coast. Surely there are not many D's getting driven everyday like this?
I do believe we are taking the piss out of Citroen by keeping the old girls alive on the roads but sooner or later the amount of maintenance will catch up. Last trip I replaced both front hubs, L/H driveshaft, R/H triax, replaced all boots etc. All on the same day I drove it from Canberra to Melbourne... that Nissan Cube is looking attractive right now
Harley
"Neglect over time has the unknowing blaming the pivot for the failure of the cable."
What do you mean by that?
I may be unknowing but I do blame the pivot for the cable failure.
As you yourself said, the pivot was a poor design. Not only are the two loads not in the same plane, causing a skewing moment and uneven wear (exacerbating the problem), but there was no provision for maintenance so "neglect" is not a fair accusation. Have you ever seen a Citroen service bulletin that suggests drenching the pivot in oil in the hope that some will find it's way into the friction area? The only hope is that the hydraulic pump leaks enough to slow wear.
Further, the routing of the cable so close to the exhaust was just stupid. Insulation is useless as all it can do is slow the heat transfer, not isolate it.
It astounds me how Citroen could occasionally make such ridiculous mistakes when so much of their engineering was simply wonderful.
The removal of the pivot or even the release of the cable to then grease (not drench in LHM) along with checking the condition can make the owner aware of the condition.
Rather than the blithe approach that what you can't see will be alright. Yes, it is difficult to access, so move a few things.
The expectation of owners for these parts to remain in service for so long without inspection or lubrication, is unknowing. Not to mention the adjustment of cable and pedal freeplay. These usually ignored aspects affect the efficient operation of both cable and pivot; neglect.
The absence of a Citroen Service Bulletin alluding to maintenance of the pivot and the cable (other than correct freeplay adjustment) should tell you that there wasn't a problem with the cars when they were new and in service for a number of years. Perhaps this has not occurred to you.
Of course this situation would never happen today, would it!
Insulation of the outer cable is NOT useless. The factory used asbestos woven sheathing, there are many other more effective coverings available. When that sheathing is in place, or an effective insulating sheath is used, the proximity to the exhaust is a non issue.
With respect, I have had cables built which are in service today, lasting a number of years, through improved design and material considering the use.
I suggested to buy a new pivot, they last well. I did not say is a poor design, I stated that it was poorly executed.
When considering the cable, as the inner loses flexibility, no lubrication, then work hardens and eventually breaks, the difficulty of the cable to travel with the increased friction places further strain on the pivot.
Like I said; neglect and unknowing.
Rather than the blithe approach that what you can't see will be alright. Yes, it is difficult to access, so move a few things.
The expectation of owners for these parts to remain in service for so long without inspection or lubrication, is unknowing. Not to mention the adjustment of cable and pedal freeplay. These usually ignored aspects affect the efficient operation of both cable and pivot; neglect.
The absence of a Citroen Service Bulletin alluding to maintenance of the pivot and the cable (other than correct freeplay adjustment) should tell you that there wasn't a problem with the cars when they were new and in service for a number of years. Perhaps this has not occurred to you.
Of course this situation would never happen today, would it!
Insulation of the outer cable is NOT useless. The factory used asbestos woven sheathing, there are many other more effective coverings available. When that sheathing is in place, or an effective insulating sheath is used, the proximity to the exhaust is a non issue.
With respect, I have had cables built which are in service today, lasting a number of years, through improved design and material considering the use.
I suggested to buy a new pivot, they last well. I did not say is a poor design, I stated that it was poorly executed.
When considering the cable, as the inner loses flexibility, no lubrication, then work hardens and eventually breaks, the difficulty of the cable to travel with the increased friction places further strain on the pivot.
Like I said; neglect and unknowing.
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Your close to the money Michaelr! Citroen did employ an automatic oiling system of the pivot which is fed from the front of the rocker cover and the front of the sump, the oil is picked up by the cessna prop located behind the radiator and blown into all the serviceable cracks and crevices on the exterior of the motor, this design was inspired by a St. Emilion Merlot as this system will get better with age.
I just use a heavy fuel hose to insulate the cable...
The OEM pivot that I have in the shed, which is smooth and soild in operation, has the same broken hook as in my pic, so clearly they are not immune to this type of wear, although I bet it was incorrect adjustment that caused it.
Harley