Starter solenoid wanted

bleudanube

bleudanube

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Ok, today the solenoid jammed up and made the starter run until I could unstick it… it has been giving me a bit of grief since the resto finished, so time to find a better one.

Would anyone have a decent one in their stash of parts or wrecks? It’s for a 1964 Safari ID…. If that makes any difference. I thought they are all the same across the years, but maybe not.

Decent used ones are apparently still a lot better than the repro ones according to Darrin at Citroen Classic - hence the request here.

Thanks in advance.

Sven
 

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The repro ones are shit!
The copper alloy used for the daisy wheel is an inferior type and lacking in beryllium according to a learned friend (not Uncle Bob).
The issue isn't so much with the daisy wheel burning as lacking in spring quality.
The other concerns with the repro jobs are the thin top plate which goes into the positive terminal and a general lack of robustness.
Securing the plate where it inserts into the + terminal with a nut and bolt also helps.
Flimsier than the heater taps when reaching below the location.
I'm still using a repro one which I remade with stronger copper plates at the top and subsequently strengthened further by Uncle Bob (buttercup) recently on a recent mission into Barnaby Joyce land. He also used red repair tape, very speccy stuff :)

Sven, dismantle yours and check the condition of the daisy wheel which is the petal shaped copper disc that moves upward to contact the two fixed plates. replace the rivets with screws and nuts, 3mm from memory.
If the petals aren't severely burned you can bend the petals on the daisy wheel to contact only in a small section.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Richo,

I did pull it apart a couple of times as the coil wires broke. The daisy wheel was a little worn but still worked. I can have another go at it, but if someone has a good used one I at least have a backup either way.
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Geez. Citroen affliction for overcomplicating things for no reason strikes again. Remote starter solenoid. Can you just replace that miserable contraption with a relay? I realise you need some serious amps but there are modern relays that can do that. Failing that, I would suggest a contactor like those used in machinery. You can get some rated above 500A for not much money.
 
Hi Sven, I have one here. I removed it off my DS years ago as it was redundant. Personally I would prefer one of the old Lucas ones as used on Jags, Austins etc, I've often seen them at swap meets etc.
Woody
 
schlitzaugen said:
Geez. Citroen affliction for overcomplicating things for no reason strikes again. Remote starter solenoid. Can you just replace that miserable contraption with a relay? I realise you need some serious amps but there are modern relays that can do that. Failing that, I would suggest a contactor like those used in machinery. You can get some rated above 500A for not much money.
Click to expand...
Yes and it only lasted 58 years ..... French rubbish again.
Actually having an easily accessible push button solenoid at the battery made setting timing etc very easy. There is no easy access point to turn a D engine other than the crank handle which operates through the gearbox.
 
Excellent Brian - will send you a PM.

But I am with the Fritz… that thing is bloody useful for engine checks, timing adjustment or even starting the car when your key or ignition barrel stuffs up. Used it far too often to get rid of it.

Even bought a remote starter for my Merc resto so I can do the work by myself rather than having a helper turn the key every time I need to…

Sven
 
On later cars without the remote solenoid, you can usually unplug the connector on the lead that goes to the solenoid at the starter and touch the battery terminal to kick it over a bit. Same for many CX.

It looks like it has lost a 'petal' per decade. Still mid-bloom and century to go then on that basis!
 
bleudanube said:
Excellent Brian - will send you a PM.

But I am with the Fritz… that thing is bloody useful for engine checks, timing adjustment or even starting the car when your key or ignition barrel stuffs up. Used it far too often to get rid of it.

Even bought a remote starter for my Merc resto so I can do the work by myself rather than having a helper turn the key every time I need to…

Sven
Click to expand...
A piece of chicken wire jumped from the battery + to starter solenoid does the same job with better reliability. On some cars the contacts at the back of the solenoid are so close you can use your house keys (or whatever scrap of metal is handy) to the same result.

The R12 for instance had one starter model where the solenoid had an opening in the end that allowed engaging the starter by just pushing the solenoid core with your finger. I am sure the same starter was used in other Renaults and wouldn't be surprised if many other cars had the same sort of facility.
 
schlitzaugen said:
A piece of chicken wire jumped from the battery + to starter solenoid does the same job with better reliability. On some cars the contacts at the back of the solenoid are so close you can use your house keys (or whatever scrap of metal is handy) to the same result.

The R12 for instance had one starter model where the solenoid had an opening in the end that allowed engaging the starter by just pushing the solenoid core with your finger. I am sure the same starter was used in other Renaults and wouldn't be surprised if many other cars had the same sort of facility.
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For Christ's sake dude, Sven just got through a complete resto on that wagon. How about helping- if you are able- rather than going on with some BS commentary about how it lasted "only" 58 years, and that chicken wire is his solution.? Seriously. It isn't that hard: contribute, ask a relevant question, or bow out.
 
Sven….you sorted or still looking? I am fairly sure I have one— somewhere! - in the shed if you still searching…. Cheers jon
 
jonf said:
Sven….you sorted or still looking? I am fairly sure I have one— somewhere! - in the shed if you still searching…. Cheers jon
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Brian said he has one, just got to organise it. If that doesn’t come off I will get back to you - thanks for the offer John. Sven
 
Thank you Brian - solenoid arrived and installed!

Fresh as a daisy wheel now 😄. Up and running for another 58 years for sure!
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Please excuse, I'm a bit confused, no Citroen of mine has such a device. Can somebody please explain how this works and on what Citroen?
A starter solenoid to me has always been on the starter motor.
If I was to sort out / answer my question - is it a sort of a relay that supplies 12 V direct to the "starter solenoid" on the starter motor thus bypassing the ignition key starter?
John
 
From what I gather it is the starter solenoid, i.e. a coil powered by the ignition key that operates contacts that send power directly to the starter (no solenoid on the starter). Similar setup with the solenoid on starter only placed remotely.
 
schlitzaugen said:
From what I gather it is the starter solenoid, i.e. a coil powered by the ignition key that operates contacts that send power directly to the starter (no solenoid on the starter). Similar setup with the solenoid on starter only placed remotely.
Click to expand...
Thanks schlitzaugen.
So, the starter motor on such a set up on spinning throws out the mechanism to engage to the ring gear to turn it over.
John
 
JAJEA said:
Please excuse, I'm a bit confused, no Citroen of mine has such a device. Can somebody please explain how this works and on what Citroen?
A starter solenoid to me has always been on the starter motor.
If I was to sort out / answer my question - is it a sort of a relay that supplies 12 V direct to the "starter solenoid" on the starter motor thus bypassing the ignition key starter?
John
Click to expand...
Yes, it's more like a manually operated relay supplying direct 12v to the starter solenoid. Very convenient, the car will not start unless the ignition is switched on. The starter motor remains conventional and is the same as used on models without the battery relay,

Cheers
Chris
 
... but, but , but the bridge strap on the starter for the solenoid is cut when the remote solenoid is used. If you delete the remote solenoid and change the wiring, you have to reinstate the bridge strap.
Edit: This was the wrong way around. You need the bridge/shunt with the remote relay. It is not there when there is a separate wire going to the solenoid on the starter.
 
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