S1 205GTi gets beaten by a Falcon

two-oh-philic:
yeah i am being serious. i don't think u look at a mini with the same appreciation for the engineering, prestige, etc., as you would a ferrari. i don't think mini's go into the same category as other classic prestige cars. I think they, and 205's, go into a kind of hobbie classic category.
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The Mini - not prestige, but definitely classic.

BTW the 205GTi will never hold the same place in classic car history, but is definitely in the 'classic' category IMO, as hard as that is to define.

Stuey
 
Luca:
So the mini and the bug are classics... and the 205 will probably be a classic b/c of it's proven race bread desesign etc... what about the present pugs? Do we invisage the 206 or 307 to be seen as classics or will they go down as just another car like the 505?
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What's 'race bred' about the 205?
 
Ray did you sleep through the 80's?

Remember the refinements learned through rallying go on to the car. Trailing arm rear suspention for example...

To me the word "classic" is for cars like those which have been raced or have stood the test of time and finally the cult classics.

Raced: 205's, Lancia Monte Carlo, Alfa GTV, etc
Test of time: Merc 230 Conv, the Bug, etc..
Cult Classic: FIAT bambino, GOGGO dart, etc...

Agree/Disagree?
 
The 205 was designed before it raced or rallied, is that not so?

And it had no direct predecessor in competition on which it could draw direct input.

Later models may have carried development, but to say that the car was a 'race bred design' is patently flawed.
 
Ray Bell:
The 205 was designed before it raced or rallied, is that not so?

And it had no direct predecessor in competition on which it could draw direct input.

Later models may have carried development, but to say that the car was a 'race bred design' is patently flawed.
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i thought the 205 was designed with rallies in mind
hence all the research and development of the car before it hit the show rooms
 
In italia we say... "The 205 was built to win the Pizzeria to Discoteca rally" against the Golf GTi. And it did before it went on to be one of the finest rally car pug built. The choped 405 T16 that took Ari Vatenen to pikes peek in record time was a beast. The record was only broken in 2002 by some Suzuki clag box with a big roller baring hoofer.

<small>[ 14 July 2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Luca ]</small>
 
pugrambo:
Ray Bell:
The 205 was designed before it raced or rallied, is that not so?

And it had no direct predecessor in competition on which it could draw direct input.

Later models may have carried development, but to say that the car was a 'race bred design' is patently flawed.
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i thought the 205 was designed with rallies in mind
hence all the research and development of the car before it hit the show rooms
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I find it hard to believe that the 205 was designed with competition in mind, it would have been designed with it's prime purpose in mind, economy transport, "competition" would have been an afterthought, things like the t16 are barely a 205 at all :)

If the 205 "GTI" was made/"packaged" for any single purpose it would have been to be beat the Golf GTI of the time......which in turn was made for beating the Alfasud TI (the first "modern" hot hatch...without a hatch) :D

Mini's have reached classic status, they are called coopers :) .......there were 300,000+ minis sold in Aus over their lifetime.....it will be a while before mainstream models are rare/worth anything.
 
Classic doesn't mean rare or worth big money any more than it means prestige. Rarity is a minor factor. Ordinary Mk I & II Minis are very sought after in the UK, Japan, and to a lesser extent greater Europe. Classic is different things to different people...

Stuey (ex. Cooper S owner)
 
Well like a said i think the mini, 205 and maybe a few others go into i think a hobbie classic car category.

I think the 205 we are really talking about is the GTi, which means it was built after the 205 T16. But to say the 205 GTi was race bread is way off i think. Even the T16 was a rally car, exactly what part of the carbon fibre (i'd guess) mid-engine, four wheel drive, up to 500hp turbo is similar to the front wheel drive 130hp front engine hatchback? Maybe the monocoque body? And i suppose sort of the hatchback too!
 
Stuey:
Classic doesn't mean rare or worth big money any more than it means prestige. Rarity is a minor factor. Ordinary Mk I & II Minis are very sought after in the UK, Japan, and to a lesser extent greater Europe. Classic is different things to different people...

Stuey (ex. Cooper S owner)
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oh, I wasn't trying to define "classic"....it's many things many people

Rarity is somewhat important, whether it be in the numerical sense or condition.

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say, some people value something that is unique moreso than something that is plentiful..........there probably aren't all that many "good" original mk1/2 minis in the UK these days.....and the mini was certainly a unique car on the streets of tokyo :D

Yes, all minis are good :p (ex owner of several minis)
 
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