Rivets v Welding v Epoxy

PeterT

1000+ Posts
Mild Steel and stainless is very forgiving. My advice is to start there first. I don’t use big cups. If you get the basics right you can then progress to Al. Anyone who can weld with oxy-acet can tig weld mild steel. Understanding electrode types and preparation there of, is certainly important.
 

driven

1000+ Posts
Don't take the paint off, it will only scare you and sit around the yard for the next 5 years. It's just a fun track car, not a restoration project.

My motto with race cars has always been (apart from safety issues) if it wont make the car handle better, accelerate faster or brake better don't worry about it.
Taking the paint off will make it lighter. Black is lowest KG/Litre
 

Kim Luck

1000+ Posts
I couldn't let this go past un-commented. #citationrequired :)

My quick googling brings up lots of anecdotes and debate, but it's immediately clear that different pigments weigh do different amounts, but also have different application rates to achieve acceptable coverage. This is before evaporation is accounted for.

I assume places like V8 supercars have tried this out on their spec chassis, where you could do a weigh, paint, dry, weigh process on identical chassis in different colours. Certainly I've heard it mentioned in relation to aeroplanes, where it makes a measurable difference.

This was a quite a good one, within my 5 minute limit on the topic. https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/paint-weight-debate-951964/page3/
It came up with a metallic silver being lightest vs white heaviest in the specific choices to hand, by a noticeable amount.

The W25 Mercedes Silver Arrows had an interesting history and a weight problem, solved by grinding the white paintwork off their bodies.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/classic/history/mercedes-benz-silver-arrows/
 

Kim Luck

1000+ Posts
Weight of paint calculator all solved here
A380 is covered with 3300 litres of paint. That is why they weigh your luggage
So you can fly in a pretty aeroplane

Also, the aircraft could be in straight aluminium finish, polished or not, with no extra weight. Sadly, corrosion maintenance for polished aluminium costs more than a nice paint finish. Our Mirages required a full paint job early on to cut back corrosion.
 

bob

1000+ Posts
got a bit away from the holes.... :)
When I was but a lad I had an elderly Standard, with a ventilated floor. The go back then was fibreglass and resin, used in big amounts by industry for all sorts of stuff. At the factory one morning the lads from the pattern shop cleaned up and resin glued a fiberglass mat in all four footwells, after lunch they came back with a big bucket of resin and poured it in to a depth of about 1/4" or so. Worked rather well, just a few dribbles underneath not worth worrying about.... (y)
Bob
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
got a bit away from the holes.... :)
When I was but a lad I had an elderly Standard, with a ventilated floor. The go back then was fibreglass and resin, used in big amounts by industry for all sorts of stuff. At the factory one morning the lads from the pattern shop cleaned up and resin glued a fiberglass mat in all four footwells, after lunch they came back with a big bucket of resin and poured it in to a depth of about 1/4" or so. Worked rather well, just a few dribbles underneath not worth worrying about.... (y)
Bob
Was the perforated floor standard equipment or an extra on the Standard?
 
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bowie

1000+ Posts
It great to hear there are so many before me that had the same dramas. :D

I picked up the car from Calder yesterday. That place brakes my heart! I could not believe just how generally tied the place was :(

The view when entering is of dumped materials and abandoned ticket boxes. Faded paint everywhere and shout outs to sponsors long gone. I understand when they set it for drag racing, that slippy UHT stuff bleeds out into the final corner making it useless if it's damp. Oh what a tragedy.

I confess I sent them my resume telling them how great I was but they never got back to me. Oh that place is the right distance between the airport, city, next to a freeway and a train-line, It should be just as SMSP is. So much potential Aaaahhh frustrating.

Anyway... You can imagine the fun I had navigating small Melbourne streets with a hire trailer, the POS, is now home and sitting on the lawn as the battery was flat and there was enough of an incline to make moving it shit!

As a recent melbournite., I'm going into a 7 day lockdown (which im actually looking forward too) so I should have time to get it in the shed proper and have a look, re reading all your experiences and then no doubt end up at a bunnings somewhere working out how the click and collect thing works.
 

bowie

1000+ Posts
Just re read what I wrote. So arrogant of me, they are no doubt doing fine.

Still want to wash the place. :(
 

bowie

1000+ Posts
Ah well cut the area back until the battery gave up, not as bad as I had imagined..

Floor

From the engine bay near the handbrake cable

So I need to put something in that area, Im leaning towards a fiberglass patch to seal everything, then 2mm alu checker plate over the top (sealed along each ridge, and riveted) to take the friction away from my racing Dc Martins making a false floor. Suppose this will allow to me undo it all in the future should I wish to start welding stuff (I should).

No doubt I'll fiberglass / epoxy that area under the handbrake also.. Trying to remember the last time I used the handbrake.. Hmmmm
 

JohnW

Too many posts!
Ah well cut the area back until the battery gave up, not as bad as I had imagined..

Floor
[/URL]

From the engine bay near the handbrake cable
[/URL]

So I need to put something in that area, Im leaning towards a fiberglass patch to seal everything, then 2mm alu checker plate over the top (sealed along each ridge, and riveted) to take the friction away from my racing Dc Martins making a false floor. Suppose this will allow to me undo it all in the future should I wish to start welding stuff (I should).

No doubt I'll fiberglass / epoxy that area under the handbrake also.. Trying to remember the last time I used the handbrake.. Hmmmm
Heavens, you could get away with thick paint!! :)
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Ah well cut the area back until the battery gave up, not as bad as I had imagined..

Floor
[/URL][/URL]

From the engine bay near the handbrake cable
[/URL][/URL]

So I need to put something in that area, Im leaning towards a fiberglass patch to seal everything, then 2mm alu checker plate over the top (sealed along each ridge, and riveted) to take the friction away from my racing Dc Martins making a false floor. Suppose this will allow to me undo it all in the future should I wish to start welding stuff (I should).

No doubt I'll fiberglass / epoxy that area under the handbrake also.. Trying to remember the last time I used the handbrake.. Hmmmm

The hole might be small, but to weld a repair in there, all the discoloured area will be thinned out. The patch will be quite big you will need to weld in (you will probably have to cut the end of the anti-drumming ribs). Simplest fix is to wire brush, paint .... cover in sikaflex the rusty area (lots) ... and push a patch down onto it. Make sure you have plenty of squeeze out ... so there is no air holes in there. This will make the area water/air tight.... ie: it shouldnt be able to rust any further.

I did a similar thing in the plenum of my range rover where there is overlapping metal and inadequate seam sealer from the factory. ie: I trowelled one of the polyurthanes into the area forcing it into every crevice and hole .... then paint the lot. You can paint a urethane type sealer/glue.
 

bowie

1000+ Posts
Re welders, is something like this reasonable to aim for?

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/unim ... ick-welder

Decided ~7-800 is kinda the silly money I'm happy to play with (Oh, and I appreciate there is another ~$600 in saftey gear and a bottle of gas) and want a welder that will end up with me playing with TIG eventually. Needs to be a 10amp (still renting) and something that does Stick / Mig / Tig makes sense?

Google reading tells me a ~180w machine usually has enough control / flexibility for the thinner sheet metal I'll end up playing with? I'm not exactly sure why this is the case but assuming simply better chineseium internals that can handle voltage control better? Or perhaps it's just that the cheap TIG machines are junk?

For the project list;

- rear arches (might just epoxy / fiberglass them)
- various rust repairs
- making a spring compressor tool
- making a bracket to hold the brake master cylinder still (moves like a trampoline against thin firewall)
- make some suspension braces between front / rear towers / copy the racing spanish reno nerds
- make some adjustable control arms / adjustable tyre rod / trailing arms.
- exhaust manifold
- inlet manifold (most likely steel, and tiny, like ~40mm inlet runners for motorbike style throttle body to valve distances
:P
)
- seem weld the POS (because idiot)

Point being, there is heaps to learn and practise on and what better way to do it then sending my electricity bill through the roof!
 
Last edited:

schlitzaugen

1000+ Posts
Or just try to make a welder's cart first.

Watch This Old Tony's videos on welding, he's got quite a few, you'll soon understand what you want and why.
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Re welders, is something like this reasonable to aim for?

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/unim ... ick-welder

Decided ~7-800 is kinda the silly money I'm happy to play with (Oh, and I appreciate there is another ~$600 in saftey gear and a bottle of gas) and want a welder that will end up with me playing with TIG eventually. Needs to be a 10amp (still renting) and something that does Stick / Mig / Tig makes sense?

Google reading tells me a ~180w machine usually has enough control / flexibility for the thinner sheet metal I'll end up playing with? I'm not exactly sure why this is the case but assuming simply better chineseium internals that can handle voltage control better? Or perhaps it's just that the cheap TIG machines are junk?

For the project list;

- rear arches (might just epoxy / fiberglass them)
- various rust repairs
- making a spring compressor tool
- making a bracket to hold the brake master cylinder still (moves like a trampoline against thin firewall)
- make some suspension braces between front / rear towers / copy the racing spanish reno nerds
- make some adjustable control arms / adjustable tyre rod / trailing arms.
- exhaust manifold
- inlet manifold (most likely steel, and tiny, like ~40mm inlet runners for motorbike style throttle body to valve distances
:P
)
- seem weld the POS (because idiot)

Point being, there is heaps to learn and practise on and what better way to do it then sending my electricity bill through the roof!

That shoudl be fine... You only need a small cheap welder for car panels .... you'll have hte power set as low as it can go. You can't just "weld" sheet metal. repairing something like that floor with look absolutely shithouse with booger welds dobbed everywhere. You just grind flat ... and fill any missed spots. It's very time consuming.


this guy is just amazing the way he builds patch panels with a 4" grinder, hammer and welder
 

bowie

1000+ Posts
Ah nice pick up re the AC TIG and foot pedal, I didn't realise TIG wasn't TIG wasn't TIG.

Embarrassed

More reading for me.
 

PeterT

1000+ Posts
I think that 10A plug is always going to be the limiting factor. If you want a TIG that will weld 2-2.5mm wall mild steel RHS, you're going to need a 180-200A machine and that will have a 15A plug. If you looked around for a cheap, older transformer type MIG, it will also have at least a 15A plug.

The other issue with having dedicated MIG and TIG machines, is that you need two different gases, which becomes expensive.

TIG - pure argon
MIG - argoshield light

Thus in my mind, if I was buying one machine, to do "most" things, it would be AC/DC TIG, HF Start, foot pedal and 15A. (of course you can always make a special 15A to 10A adaptor)

You're in Sydney right? I'd ring Lidcombe TAFE and ask what machine they use for their entry level TIG course.
 
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