Resurfacing of Fuego Cylinder head.

[mistareno]

Does any one know why resurfacing is not permitted (according to the manual) on a Fuego cylinder head?

 

[Simon]

My guess is that it slackens the cambelt, the tensioner possibly getting to the limit of its safe travel over a period of time. I suppose given the extremes of a machined head, old cambelt and the tensioner unable to tension any further the belt could jump the teeth.

Probably easier just to say don't shave the head from Renaults point of view.

 

[Ray Bell]

The 16TS head also had that instruction, and it was understood due to the misalignment it would bring to the cam followers (in the head) compared to the cam (in the block)...

But Bruce Collier happily took .060" off them and had no real problems.

 

[mistareno]

I have read about the problems re: 16ts style engines (hi cam) but the factory still allows re-surfacing to a minimum head height (93.00mm) but the fuego is an OHC model. I was thinking along the same lines as simon, but not to that extreme. I think that you would have to take a few mm of the head to have problems with the tensioner. I was thinking the re-surfacing may throw the cam timing out slightly. Nothing a vernier pulley wouldn't fix?? Does anyone know if there is some deeper, more technical reason?? I really need to know before hacking my engine apart?

 

[Haakon]

Go for it. Had it done on several Fuego, R21 and R25 heads. In fact, dont replace a head gasket WITHOUT having it done, as it ensures a good seal. The fraction of a mm that is taken off is irrelavent to the belt tensioner.

 

[Damien Gardner]

The head on my R10's 16TS has been re-surfaced 3 times now, with no probs, once for free, got it done at Repco & they missed replacing the welshplug in the top of the head. yep you guessed it sump full of water=fried motor, and the R10 with front radiator holds lots of water. cry
mallet renault_ renault_ renault_ renault_

<small>[ 22 April 2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Damien Gardner ]</small>

 

[mistareno]

Haakon:
In fact, dont replace a head gasket WITHOUT having it done, as it ensures a good seal. The fraction of a mm that is taken off is irrelavent to the belt tensioner.

That has always been my undestanding also. Bear in mind that I was thinking of shaving a bit off the head to bump up the compression ratio (not just a resurface for gasket mating) whilst also fitting a warmer camshaft (the engine is otherwise very healthy).
I just find it a little disconcerting when the manual says "resurfacing not permitted" with not in bold print....
But, if youve done it before haakon, 10:1 here we come.....

 

[Haakon]

I havnt taken off enough to affect comp, but the tensioner has quite a bit of movement in it, so I really cant see a problem - just be careful of valve/piston interferance. I suspect Renault just say that as an arse covering statement.

 

[mistareno]

Haakon:
I suspect Renault just say that as an arse covering statement.

They say it ONLY for that motor. Every other engine ever fitted in a Fuego (847, 843 etc) has a minimum deck height except the 2.0L OHC motor. Must be a reason, i'm just buggered if i know what it is. I've worked on squillions of cars and have very rarely seen this come up...

 

[Europa]

mistareno:

Haakon:
I suspect Renault just say that as an arse covering statement.

They say it ONLY for that motor. Every other engine ever fitted in a Fuego (847, 843 etc) has a minimum deck height except the 2.0L OHC motor. Must be a reason, i'm just buggered if i know what it is. I've worked on squillions of cars and have very rarely seen this come up...

FWIW, the same statement is given on the PRV V6 motor in my documentation.

In the V6 case, I'm wondering if it's something to do with the "angle" head tightening method (ie. the final head bolt angle won't have the same downforce if the head is thinner)

Having said that, AFAIK, Fuego has normal head tightening procedure...

 

[Haakon]

Nope, nothing wierd about Fuego motors.

Mistareno, I reccomend that you get the head recoed while its off - for under $200 bucks, you get it stripped, bead blasted, valves refaced and matched to seats, pressure tested and new welch plugs installed - you may also want new guides. Give 'em all the bits like rockers and cover to put in the hotwash and it makes the jobs a lot easier and less messy and ensures it will run at its full potential. PS ditch that 505 manifold while youre at it - cracked Fuego manifolds are easy and cheap from pinchapart, so even if the weld only lasts a little while, its not a problem.

 

[mistareno]

If I take it off, the whole engine is getting the works. Light port, polish, larger inlet valves, new guides, seats, cam.., Forged pistons,

I am just trying to decide weather to go the whole hog on the fuego, or buy a clio sport. I love the fuego, and I really don't think that a clio handles any better than my fuego.
BTW
At the moment the engine is perfectly healthy, and no, the 505 manifold has made no difference to performance and atleast I know it will never crack. BTW if I go nuts with the fuego It will be getting a custom manifold. It's required for the turbo....

Regards

 

[Haakon]

I agree that the clio is pretty spesh, but for half the money, you could have a bloody amazing Fuego that will whip its butt so to speak. I'd go for Laguna brakes (off a wreck, with the ABS if your good with electrics) to match the engine (which I would base around a 2.2 EFI R25 motor, not the carby Fuego one - or look into making a 2 litre 16v Laguna motor fit in lengthways?!). Get the gearbox beefed up and put some 16' wheels on. Yum.

 

[mistareno]

I already have 16's (not the wheels that were on it AFD 03). EFI is a given (it was always going to be) but I want to keep the capacity under 2000cc (for class purposes). If I was going to make an East/West motor fit, it would be from a Clio sport. The other engine option would be a RWD SR20DET, but then any originality would be thrown out the door (and I dont think the box would like 160kw). BTW, I dont think that the 25's longer stroke would be of advatage for the type of engine I want (either N/a or Turbo) as revability isn't their greatest asset.

 

[Haakon]

in that case, just use the R25 head and manifold, as the inlet ports are a different shape to cater for the injector spray at the inlet valve.

Get onto <a href="http://www.renault21turbo.com," target="_blank">www.renault21turbo.com,</a> and ask someone to send you the 21 Turbo head (with sodium cooled exhaust valves, or maybe a TXi 12 valve head), manifolds, computer (with the right mapping for turbo) and turbo etc. Will also keep it relativly legal as it using Renault bits (A motec computer is illegal on road cars and a standard NA computer wont like the turbo)

 

[Haakon]

and get a 21 Turbo gearbox (which apparently cope with the hotted up R21 Turbos with 250+ BHP - there is a R21 Turbo Quadra in the UK that is good for 0-100 in under 5 seconds - a Fuego is lighter.....) to go with it. Will involve a few dollars, but it sounds like you want to do it right. You will never make your money back if you sell it down the track, but a new clio will depreciate pretty fast too.

 

[mistareno]

Only problem with a 21 turbo box(although I'm still not sold on the turbo idea), is it will cost three times more to ship here than it will to buy it. I want to keep the thing relatively drivable so i think 130-140kw at the flywheel is the upper limit (although 5 secs to 100 would be ummm interesting). Hacking up the floor to fit a tailshaft and rear driveline from a quaddra is a bit out of the question.
BTW No, resale doesn't bother me, otherwise I wouldn't even consider this. The other option I had in regards to fueling is to run it on LPG through a Gas research throttle body. I have heard very good reports about these things from independent sources. They have an inbuilt water injection venturi (no pump required) and they are very adjustable. Running on LPG keeps the EPA of your back also.

Things have been researched quite a bit for this little endeavour, and when (if I keep it) it happens it will happen very quickly.

I am currently fitting SPAX adjustable coil-overs to the front and then I will upgrade the brakes. (more likely 25 front disks than laguna). Only when the thing stops and steers how I like it too will it come of the road for some "tinkering" in the engine department.

 

[Haakon]

I only mentioned Laguna brakes as you get a balanced all disc system with ABS. But 25 fronts and (if you can get them) 25/21/Fuego turbo rear discs will do very nicely, especially if you get some grooved front rotors from europe.
And I agree - you should be able to get quite a bit out of the motor without going to turbo. There are a number of aftermarket bits available for the J series, including yummy stuff like race pistons, good rods etc etc.

 

[mistareno]

Haakon:
I only mentioned Laguna brakes as you get a balanced all disc system with ABS. But 25 fronts and (if you can get them) 25/21/Fuego turbo rear discs will do very nicely.

I was thinking rear disks of a E30 BMW. I want to be able to get service type parts easily.

With the rear proportioning valve set-up right, ABS isn't really worth all the extra trouble (what, you dont think the Fuego wiring is bad enough?)

Does anyone know what kind of power a NG3 box will handle reliably? Bear in mind that I use the box properly (ie : heel/toe on fast down changes)

 

[Haakon]

mistareno:
I was thinking rear disks of a E30 BMW. I want to be able to get service type parts easily.

Good idea (right stud pattern, but BMW use a separate drum for the handbrake which may complicate matters, plus its a rear drive setup, so mounting on the Fuego rear hub may be tricky. Plus its not Renault. Better off to use something like a current Astra (which will be fairly new from a Holden wrecker) caliper and the Astra disc (right stud pattern and for a FWD) or some R25 V6 discs that Ken @ Carrevelle has new.

(what, you dont think the Fuego wiring is bad enough?)

Nah, the more complicated and harder to fix, the better D

Does anyone know what kind of power a NG3 box will handle reliably? Bear in mind that I use the box properly

I did silly driving a lot in My Fuego's, and they were fine. Ask the R21 Turbo boys in the UK what Renault did to the Turbo box to make it stronger.

QB]