Renault straight eight engine anyone..?

Hmm Graham so you are just fishing for compliments :rolleyes:
It is hard to reply as I am 76 and now trying to divest myself of projects. My body is saying enough and just take it easy. I am thinking of another hip operation. So I might suggest you put that into the formula to compute an answer for yourself. Or you might have done better in the gene lottery. :cool:
I have a copy of Dykes Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia sixteenth edition of 1931. If it would be of use to you just ask. I guess there is a lot of the information sprinkled around the web. But it has lots of interesting background details about how things were done generally in those days and diagrams and sections etc, as well as specs for the American engines of the day.

I guess if you were still feeling like a real challenge you could go for a V12 and incorporate the two Dodge 6 engines into one for a behemoth engine that would be a "bit unique". Possibly no Renault connection though. Cast in alloy it would be not so heavy. Slim the big ends down to run on the one six journal. It has been done for a V8 Peugeot engine.
Jaahn

Peugeot V8

Just curious, anyone remember anything from the 60's where someone in Oz had created a V8 from 2 404 (or was it 403) blocks, heads etc?
www.aussiefrogs.com
 
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Nah, I'm always fishing for information and opinion is all and your opinion is one that matters a lot. If I were to launch into an engine building project I would only be copying what someone else has already done because, yes I can build stuff but technical expertise is still to be learnt. I Reckon a Renault straight eight in alloy is the go.

Re Dykes 1931: Yes I would be happy to borrow it and scan all pages and return it to you with thanks.
 
jaahn said:
I guess if you were still feeling like a real challenge you could go for a V12 and incorporate the two Dodge 6 engines into one for a behemoth engine that would be a "bit unique".
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Chrysler bolted 5 of them together to make the 30 cylinder A57 multibank Sherman tank engine, so a V12 should be a snip.😉🤣
The boys are just hoisting the last engine into place in the first photo.
Graham might have to go to 36 cylinders for some "one-upmanship".🤔

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What would the journal size be in that engine? With the 'x' configuration , I can't work out how they'd fit all the piston bearings on the crank!
 
Greenpeace said:
Chrysler bolted 5 of them together to make the 30 cylinder A57 multibank Sherman tank engine, so a V12 should be a snip.😉🤣
The boys are just hoisting the last engine into place in the first photo.
Graham might have to go to 36 cylinders for some "one-upmanship".🤔
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Nope I'll leave that one to you Greenpeace because you are the inventor in the family. Keep us posted with your progress.
 
Thanks I can see it now with the end view. Lost the plot there for a while . Thinking of the old v8's I worked on.
 
Greenpeace said:
They have a 5 cranks around a central drive.
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Just as an aside on this engine. The Americans were sucked into the war and for expediency decided to build some war machines that used readily available engines etc that had a good reliability history. So designed power units that were multiple engines geared together for the require power. So some interesting things appeared. Not all were successful but the images are deified these days as are all war machines:mad:.
https://www.theshermantank.com/sherman/the-motors-four-motors-made-it-into-production/

I believe the multi Detroit Diesel two stroke multis performed well in some marine use with a quad, 4 way handed configurations into a central gearbox. That series of individual engines is still produced in much redesigned and improved form today. They are the ones you hear in trucks that sound so crackly with the exhaust brakes on !!:eek: These engines weigh a ton each so it was a weighty unit with 4 marinsed and a big gearbox.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_diesel_6051_quad-71
Sorry to hijack the French engine thread with 'merican rubbish. but i did a little bit of work on these old diesels as they were everywhere in the old days and just worked and worked. ;)
Jaahn
 
Trading Estate said:
What would the journal size be in that engine? With the 'x' configuration , I can't work out how they'd fit all the piston bearings on the crank!
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Hi this is how a radial aircraft engine does the multiple rods to one crank pin. There is one rod with a large "big end" that has the bearing and the other rods attatch to that by small wrist pin articulation bearings to the master rod big end. Always uneven number of cylinders
Jaahn
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Further to the above, I found this advise for installing dry liners and I've highlighted in red bits that I think are the key to the whole thing.

Installing Dry Sleeves

Whether you are repairing a damaged engine or beefing up a stock block for a performance application, there are a number of things to keep in mind when installing dry sleeves.

The amount of interference fit that’s needed to keep a sleeve from moving in the block will depend on the type of block (aluminium or cast iron) and whether or not you can machine a lip at the bottom of the cylinder bore to hold the sleeve in place.

If a sleeve does not bottom against a lip, or there is not the proper amount of interference fit to lock it in place, the sleeve may slip down in the bore. This can allow a loss of sealing at the top of the sleeve, causing the head gasket to fail. Or, if the sleeve slips too far down into the crankcase it will hit the crank and rod causing a catastrophic failure. If you use a small lip or ledge at the bottom of the bore to prevent the sleeve from dropping down, make sure the lip is not so thin that it breaks when the sleeve in pressed down into the block.

The typical recommendation for interference fit when sleeving a cast iron block is .0015 to .002˝. For aluminium blocks, the recommendation may vary from .002˝ to .003˝ to as much as .004˝ due to aluminium’s higher coefficient of expansion. However, some sleeves can be installed in aluminium blocks with as little as .0005 to .001˝ of interference if anaerobic sealer (such as Loctite 518) is used to lock the liner in place. The sealer prevents oil from migrating up from the bottom of the engine into any spaces or voids between the cylinder bore and sleeve.

The thickness of a straight wall sleeve can also affect how much interference fit is needed to keep it from moving. Sleeves as thin as 1/16˝ can be installed in many blocks. But a sleeve with a very thin wall thickness may allow a loss of radial tension that could allow the sleeve to move. As sleeve wall thickness decreases, so does the radial tension it exerts outward against the block that’s necessary to hold it tight.

Too much interference fit between the sleeve and block may overstress the block, which could lead to cracking and/or sleeve and cylinder bore distortion.

Ask your sleeve supplier how much press fit is recommended, then carefully measure the outside diameter of each sleeve in several locations (top, middle and bottom) to determine an average diameter, then measure the inside diameter of the bores in the block (top, middle and bottom). To do this, you’ll need an accurate OD micrometer and ID micrometer or bore gauge. Once the dimensions are known, you can calculate how much metal needs to be removed when you bore the block to achieve the desired press fit.

The rounder and smoother the holes are in the block after they have been bored, the less distortion the sleeves with undergo when they are installed. Plateau honing the bores prior to installing the sleeves with #280 grit stones will help assure a smooth fit, easy installation and maximum metal-to-metal contact for optimum cooling.

Chilling the sleeves and/or heating the block so you have about 100 degrees F difference in temperature will allow most sleeves to drop into place with little or no effort. Never beat a sleeve into place with a hammer and block or wood — unless you want to distort or damage the sleeve. If it needs some encouragement to slide into its hole (which it shouldn’t if you measured the sleeve ODs correctly, bored the block correctly, and chilled the sleeves and/or preheated the block), use a mandrel to slowly and evenly press the sleeve into position. Be careful not to cock the sleeve as it enters the bore.

Also, make sure the bores are clean before you attempt to install the sleeves. Any debris left in the cylinders can distort the sleeve and make installation more difficult.

Oil or grease should NEVER be used to insert a sleeve in a block because they can hinder cooling. If a lubricant is needed, use molybdenum disulphide.

If a dry sleeve has a flange at the top, the seat area where flange mates with the block must be chamfered. Interference in this area can cause the flange to crack.

A flanged sleeve can be installed with as little as .0005” of total press fit. One of the advantages of using a flanged sleeve rather than a straight wall sleeve is that the flange can provide stability to the deck surface for a better head gasket seal. Another plus is that less press fit allows you to sleeve one cylinder bore without disturbing the bores next to it. In an iron block, this avoids the need to bore the neighboring cylinders to oversize, which saves you time and money. Also, if you are sleeving all eight cylinders on a V8, installing flanged liners with almost zero press fit reduces stress throughout the whole block — which is important on older iron blocks with narrow bore spacings.

The top of a flangeless straight wall sleeve will usually protrude slightly above the deck surface of the block after it has been installed, so you will have to carefully machine it down flush with the deck surface. The deck surface on the block can then be resurfaced as needed to achieve the desired deck height, surface finish and flatness.

After installation, check the inside diameter of each sleeve at several locations, especially at the top and bottom to check for bore distortion. If the sleeve is out-of-round, this can be corrected by honing.

If the surface inside a sleeve is unfinished, the sleeve will have to be honed to size and finished as needed. A plateau finish is recommended for rapid ring seating and to reduce blow-by. If the sleeve comes with a prefinished bore, you should still check the finish and final hone as needed to achieve the desired microinch finish and crosshatch.

A final step recommended by some engine builders after sleeving a block is to mount the block on a vibratory table and shake it for 15 to 30 minutes to destress the block – or cold soak the block in a cryogenic tank at 300 degrees F below zero to settle the metal.

Sleeves can do a lot of things, including improving an engine’s performance and even saving it from the vehicle owner’s best attempts at destruction. Be certain you’re using the right product for your application.
 
JohnW said:
I read that they burned pretty well with all that petrol on board too. But what an interesting engine!
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Look good in a hot rod.............with a periscope.😉
 
Speaking of fuel consumption. I just happen to have a copy of the 1934 Pontiac straight eight repair manual and have scanned (for your perusal) the claimed fuel consumption chart for the 1934 straight eight engine. If driven carefully one could expect to achieve 21 MPG at 22 MPH which is quite acceptable but look what happens at 70 MPH :eek: and then looking at the disclaimer at the bottom of the page one could expect a 20% discount on those figures in real-road conditions.:eek::eek:

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56 Fregate said:
Speaking of fuel consumption. I just happen to have a copy of the 1934 Pontiac straight eight repair manual and have scanned (for your perusal) the claimed fuel consumption chart for the 1934 straight eight engine. If driven carefully one could expect to achieve 21 MPG at 22 MPH which is quite acceptable but look what happens at 70 MPH :eek: and then looking at the disclaimer at the bottom of the page one could expect a 20% discount on those figures in real-road conditions.:eek::eek:

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US gallons too. So the consumption is 20/16 times those numbers in Imperial units. That is, 16 miles/US gallon equals 20 miles/Imperial gallon. They aren't too bad until you drive it fast. It's not much different from town consumption in my Citroen CX (2.4 litres/4 cylinders) if my arithmetic is correct!!!
 
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Interesting that the chart shows roughly a 6% increase in fuel consumption by having heavier than recommended grade oils in the engine/gearbox and diff.🤔
 
Speaking about sleeves. Apparently the Land Rover Discovery V8 petrol has sleeves that shift if the engine boils for a bit.
 
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