R8 G 1700 upgrade

Hi Bazza,

Others may have views on this but I usually fill the 807 engines with 4 Litres of oil. That is where my full mark notch is made on the dipstick. I run it to allow the oil cooler, oil lines and oil filter to fill up. My cars have a remote mounted Z9 oil filter and larger than standard oil cooler, so I check the level again when its warm to top up to the full notch. The total amount of oil in the whole system is therefore more than 4 litres, around 5 to 6.

I have not measured the length of my dipstick, I don't put that type of information on the internet :)
 
bazzamac said:
Hi Bustamif

My 841 engine for my 1969 A110 has a dipstick on the exhaust side with a Lotus alloy sump. Still need to make appropriate markings on the dipstick for "Full" and near "Empty". Not sure of capacity of the sump and was thinking of putting in 2 litres of oil and checking and marking that level and then fill the sump to required capacity to mark off the "full" mark.

My questions are: what is the capacity of the Lotus alloy sump and do you have measurements of your markings on the dipstick say taken from the bottom of the dipstick (how long is your dipstick as well)?

Cheers

bazzamac
Click to expand...
Is the engine built? If so I could measure the capacity of the alloy sump I have, up to the baffle plate, and measure the point of how far the plate is below the sump mounting face to give you an idea of dip stick markings.
 
When I finish this engine build I intend to run the same oil level that I have been running in the Lotus and the R8G. The dipstick will be marked as described above in post 41.

I run on slicks with the Lotus which generates very high G forces, much more than the R8G and never have any oil surge problems at Eastern Creek, Phillip Island or even Oran Park back in the day.

In regard to Bazza's question above, I believe his engine has been built.

Alan, how much oil do you run in your 807 engine, not including oil lines, cooler etc?
 
bazzamac said:
Hi Bustamif

My 841 engine for my 1969 A110 has a dipstick on the exhaust side with a Lotus alloy sump. Still need to make appropriate markings on the dipstick for "Full" and near "Empty". Not sure of capacity of the sump and was thinking of putting in 2 litres of oil and checking and marking that level and then fill the sump to required capacity to mark off the "full" mark.

My questions are: what is the capacity of the Lotus alloy sump and do you have measurements of your markings on the dipstick say taken from the bottom of the dipstick (how long is your dipstick as well)?

Cheers

bazzamac
Click to expand...
I would drain the engine if it has oil in it and the put a litre of oil in at a time (carefully measure out, will most likely take 3 litres to get on the dip stick. Put markings on the dip stick to correspond to the know volume of oil, this would give you a calibrated dip stick. This mean you would say have marks for 3, 4 & 5 litres if the engine sump holds that much.

After starting the engine you will then know how much the oil filter, oil cooler if fitted holds.
 
I know you changed the dip stick to the other side of the engine because of the Webers. A Gordini or 17TS engine keep the dipstick on the carby/injector side but have about a 125 mm extention fitted on to the tube and a 125mm or there abouts longer dipstick. The dip stick protrude between the Webers and the radiator. Works well enough.
 
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An alternative method especially if the engine is already complete.
Decide on where you want the oil level to be.
i.e. how far above the baffle plate or the suction bell.
With the engine straight and level, mark this on the outside of the sump.
Orient the dipstick and tube alongside the engine.
Ensure the tube is at the correct height where it is to fit into the block.
Mark the dipstick for the correct height referencing from the mark on the outside of the sump.

Final check when all is ready to fire up, fill say 4 litres into the engine, run until all lines, filter,cooler etc
are full of oil, and top up to your dipstick mark taking note of the total oil quantity.

If you are going to track the car, check for signs of frothing immediately after a couple of laps.
Equally, keep your eye on the oil pressure light especially around long bends, left and right.

You could also top up a litre at a time until you start to get frothing and then remove the last litre.
 
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bazzamac said:
Hi Bustamif
My questions are: what is the capacity of the Lotus alloy sump and do you have measurements of your markings on the dipstick say taken from the bottom of the dipstick (how long is your dipstick as well)?

Cheers

bazzamac
Click to expand...
The Lotus alloy sump takes 4L to fill to the bottom of the baffle plate. The baffle plate is on average 28.5mm below the mounting face of the sump.
 
Piston orientation.
Often asked.
Excellent diagram in Alpine factory manual.
Damn. Tried to upload photo but too large.
So here we go with a description.
Draw yorself a cross section of the block.
Circle representative of crankshaft main journal.
Arrow showing clockwise rotation..
Gudgeon pin is offset to the left of piston centreline.
IE offset is to the upstroke of the piston.
 
From my experience there's just about any flavour of marking you care to wish for in these pistons. My OEM Bretille pistons (17G) had a mark pointing at the flywheel, the original pistons I took out of the car pointed in the rotation direction, another engine I opened up (17TL) had a mark pointing at the camshaft and I am pretty sure I have seen pistons with no markings in a wrecker's yard (17TL engine again). I would suggest if piston orientation is in question best place to look for info would be piston manufacturer site and correct part number.
 
Good point schlitzaugen, always refer to the manufactures instructions. My pistons are custom pistons from Wossner, they have an arrow on the top which should be pointed to the exhaust side for correct orientation according to Wossner..
 
I have almost never used known pistons with any of my engines. It is either Fiat or Mazda or Alfa, even Ford Laser. I do the same as Steve K in thread #50 which is the same as I explained in Rory's thread "(807) engine piston clearance issues". There are too many "standards" from manufacturers to bother with as mentioned above, arrow to the front, back. directional etc.

I have come across forged pistons with the pins dead center, luckily it had big and small valve pockets so I could use that for fitting.

Frans.
 
After a few delays with suppliers moving factories, retiring, or closing businesses, I have finally got the crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, clutch balanced. The head is almost finished, with all the porting, new valves, seats, guides, porting and combustion chamber work done.

The spring seat pressure was recommended by Clive of Clive Cams when he ground my cam just before he retired. I now have a lighter spring pressure with titanium retainers and lightweight small block Chev bits. It will all work well with roller rockers if I can get some at a reasonable price.

Just have to complete some work on the water flow through the head as described in post #10 then start assembly.
I will post some pics of the head progress in the next update soon.
 
Bustamif said:
The spring seat pressure was recommended by Clive of Clive Cams when he ground my cam just before he retired. I now have a lighter spring pressure with titanium retainers and lightweight small block Chev bits. It will all work well with roller rockers if I can get some at a reasonable price.
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What cam did you go with, and what valve spring tensions were suggested, please? The retainers I use are turned down Datsun L series and are about 1/3 lighter than the original Renault ones. Many moons ago I did use alloy retainers with no problems, and maybe should go that way again, but yes ultimately we need to reduce our 807 valvetrain weight and thus inertia if we are going to use fairly aggressive cams and high rpm.
 
Because the car is a road car with occasional track day use, I went with the grind Clive suggested.

Timing: Exhaust opens 81 degrees, closes 49, Inlet opens 46, closes 78, duration 240 degrees. Lift: inlet and exhaust .275 thou. There is 85 pound spring pressure on the seat.

The titanium retainers for the Manley springs are to suit 8 mm stem, .935 thou OD with 7 degree valve lock. The valve locks are SB Chev, LS/LT1.

I will post some pics of the head soon, I just need to finish some work on the water galleries to change the direction water flow through the head so that it is the same as the current 1600 engine (which has modified water flow). The pics in post # 10 show the basic concept, I want the next pics to show more detail.

The old engine is still hanging in, pics below show the last two outings, a track day at Sydney Motorsport Park in August and RCCA drive to Megalong Valley tea rooms in November. The picture of the engine bay illustrates how there is no water pump or alternator against the fire wall/ fuel tank end.

TRI12CE.jpg

TRI8BFD.jpg

TRI857.jpg

TRIDD2D.jpg
 
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