Pugs and their reputations

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WindeX

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Fellow Frogger
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<a href="http://drive.fairfax.com.au/cgi-bin/drive2002/wrapper.cgi?article=..%2Fdocs%2Fcontent-new%2Freviews%2Fused%2F1999%2F02%2F26%2Freview44.html&make=&family=&desc=&IsDealer=&search_que" target="_blank">http://drive.fairfax.com.au/cgi-bin/drive2002/wrapper.cgi?article=..%2Fdocs%2Fcontent-new%2Freviews%2Fused%2F1999%2F02%2F26%2Freview44.html&make=&family=&desc=&IsDealer=&search_que</a> ry=&result_query=&site_section=news&cat=findarticles&subCat=&pType=searchresults&querytext=mi16

This is mostly to do with Mi16's I was just crusing the net for information on them and stumbled accross some websites, this is an old Drive article from Melbournes 'The Age'. Also it got listed in Drive's worst cars ever made.
Sometimes I have to wonder, as I am not a Pug owner, but a bit of a reader of this forum, I must say this is a news to me, but then again I am in a Pug forum. :)
Are the engines really that delicate?

Windex
 
Goes abit far for my liking.

Any car with a Timing BELT is going to need to have it changed every 90-100 000Kms, not just a pug. Ditto with coolant?? Does this person even own a car that gets serviced....... They seem to be BASIC stuff to do to an engine, any engine..... deal

As for "its not particuly sport" comment. Is see that teh writer is taking in the whole package that is used on a drag strip...... :rolleyes: You know that handling word that they use later in the article just seems to not count for sportyness at least.....

And can you please tell me how a 5 dr hatch and a 3dr Rover HATCH can be compared to a 4dr Sedan?? :confused:

And as for proof reading......406 this 405 that.... mallet whip

Jono
 
I never really take any notice of articles from Drive. I often find I disagree strongly with what they say on the cars I've driven.

There is a review of the series II 505 GTi wagon and it isn't a bad review, they make a note of it being really slow, but slightly better than the 'wheezy 2L carburetor engine' or something along those lines.
 
WindeX:
as I am not a Pug owner, but a bit of a reader of this forum, I must say this is a news to me, but then again I am in a Pug forum. :)
Are the engines really that delicate?

Windex
Click to expand...
Well, the very nature of this forum means you get everyone asking about problems they are having :D . I know if someone was to look at all my posts they would think my 505 was one of the most problematic cars around. That isn't the case, it just has normal old car things wearing out, and I tend to jump on here in an instant trying to workout what else is wrong. It is actually a fairly reliable car that takes plenty of sh*t from its driver tongue
 
crosspug:

And can you please tell me how a 5 dr hatch and a 3dr Rover HATCH can be compared to a 4dr Sedan??
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Yeah I agree that they seem to bag it out for its performance but, who knows what their on, also dude a Rover 416i is a 4 door hatch wink Got a honda 1.6 in them... rev like all hell.
 
Yeah, as basically a 5 door Honda Integra wasn't it? I remember looking (briefly) at them when looking for a car.

It can be fun driving a revvy honda (I learnt to drive in a Honda CRX 1.6 VTEC, peak torque at 7000rpm, peak power 7900rpm) but it gets really tiring.

After driving a manual BMW 528i the other day I must say I appreciate bigger engines :D .
 
Well as an early Mi16 owner I have to say those sort of 'tools' sell the little car short.

It goes like a rocket and handles like a dream! sure it has some plastic rattles, although with a little time and some 4 letter words you can sort most of them out.

They are not the cheapest car to own...I know when I look at the bills when I pick it up from a repair I often feel a little green, then I climb in plant the foot and all is forgiven :)

I dont think there is ANY way you can compare an Mi16 of any Pug for that matter to a Jap or Australian tin...

Anyway...I am biast :)

Cheers

Ben
 
crosspug:
As for "its not particuly sport" comment. Is see that teh writer is taking in the whole package that is used on a drag strip...... :rolleyes: You know that handling word that they use later in the article just seems to not count for sportyness at least.....
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Geez, in my opinion the Mi16 has just about the right combination of handling and power for sporty road driving unlike much of the overpowered underhandling crap that's around. The Mi16 is also just a "nice" size for an every day sporty car. Small enough to be able to chuck it around in the tight and twisties, but big enough to carry a family of four plus luggage.

As others have indicated, relibability issues with the Mi16 are more to do with poor maintenance. They're not a car designed for only opening the bonnet to check the levels once a year. No car is really, but the amount of people who go weeks without checking under the bonnet and never check the tyre pressures always amazes me.

In some countries you can't get a licence without passing a basic maintenence test, because if you break down miles from town without any knowledge or the basic essentials, you can die (from thirst, cold, heat, etc).

Dave

<small>[ 05 October 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
 
This joker is in cuckooland. He talks about performance & handling in the same breath as Peter Brocks comments at Bathurst, but from memory, Brock was commenting on his cars performance compared to McLeods BX 16V, it's twin brother and from memory, it was McLeods car that was passing Toyota factory entries going UP the mountain so where's his argument? :confused:
The other fact he omits is at the time he was writing that article, the English 2 litre touring car series was in full swing and the Jappos didn't fare too well in that when put head to head with the European cars.
I think I once sent gibgib an article about an Mi16 prepared by I think it was Will Power for the Super Tourers series and in it they compared the advanced design of the cars to things that V8 Super cars are just bringing in. I don't know if it ever found it's way on to the downloads but there was some interesting stuff in there.
I think too, that Julian Edgar at Auto Speed sums it up pretty well by saying that they will do a test without fear or favour because they don't have to rely on advertisers Dollars to stay in business. deal
No car writer working for a commercial outlet would be brave enough to give a French car a rap over a Jap until the size of the Froggy advertising contract is equal to or greater than the ones from the Japs & let's face it; that ain't gunna happen. mallet

Alan S 2_cents
 
In recent years, the vast majority of Australian automotive 'journalism' has been rubbish. Not worth the paper it's written on.

I could start a very long rant here, with plenty of examples, but I can't be stuffed working myself into a lather over such mindless dross.

deal

<small>[ 05 October 2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: frogs4ever ]</small>
 
The rating of 2 out of 5 seems harsh for the comments they actually make in the article.

I don't really see whats so bad about the article, its not really mean't to be a comprehensive review.
 
If you go surfing on drive, you will also see a fairly damning article on the BX.

Having owned a few pugs over the years, 2 x 405's and having lusted after a Mi16, I can honestly say that this writer was having himself on as well as a great many a reader who is sucked in by this rubbish.

Pugs need their cambelt changed at 80k intervals, nominate any jap car that can't go past 100k without a belt change?

For $5-10k, in that age bracket, nominate a car with the packaging, performance, handling and ride that a 405 offers this side of a BX?

I personally think you would be hard pressed to find a better compromise!

Regards
Andrew
 
all true
the average joe that drives his jap/aussie machine though can't think past his front door though
so if someone writes a brilliant article about a weird little french car the average joe isn't going to either read or believe it anyway
if it isn't mainstream it isn't any good in their eyes
i remember i copped nothing but crap the whole time i was doing my trade driving and working on my funny little french cars while everyone else was out with their fords/holdens/datsuns
it wasn't untill they actually went for a ride in one of my cars did they understand and it took a lot to get them into a french car
"no bloody good bloody french cars" they'd say
 
pugrambo:
all true
the average joe that drives his jap/aussie machine though can't think past his front door though
so if someone writes a brilliant article about a weird little french car the average joe isn't going to either read or believe it anyway
if it isn't mainstream it isn't any good in their eyes
i remember i copped nothing but crap the whole time i was doing my trade driving and working on my funny little french cars while everyone else was out with their fords/holdens/datsuns
it wasn't untill they actually went for a ride in one of my cars did they understand and it took a lot to get them into a french car
"no bloody good bloody french cars" they'd say
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Which is why we can buy low mileage good quality luxury cars at shitbox prices.
How much an hour can a mechanic get working on Holdens & Fords? :confused:
Now; how much would the same mechanic get (if he was even fair/average) working on French cars?

Now who's the dork? roll_lau roll_lau roll_lau

Alan S dance
 
Yeah I just find it interesting, I love the look of the pugs and from what most people have said about them they perform well, are are relativly good service wise. But this kind of press really makes me want to steer clear of them, it makes it sound like a dog box.

A jap car that doesnt need its timing mechanism replaced every 100,000kms.... why anything powered with the awesome SR20DE or SR20DET... timing chains -> replaced every 250,000kms :)

For the price though i reckon that they look like a good choice... because the other car I am looking at is a pulsar SSS(n14) and they seem on average more costly, and not as well equiped as the Mi16, but that said the SSS has a damn well bulletproof motor(very nice to rev too).
 
That article is written by John Wright. He ran a BX19 GTi in Targa when I was down there in 1995. He is supposed to be some kind of European car expert. I introduced myself to him and he was a rude twat. The article is horse shit.

Give me an Mi16 over a SSS any day. My mum owned one for many years. Great engine, I agree. The chassis could not hold a candle to the Pug.

Cal.

<small>[ 06 October 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Cal ]</small>
 
WindeX:

A jap car that doesnt need its timing mechanism replaced every 100,000kms.... why anything powered with the awesome SR20DE or SR20DET... timing chains -> replaced every 250,000kms :)
Click to expand...
Timing chains or belt? I can understand chains lasting a long time. I know my car has a double row timing chain, and as far as I know lasts the life of the car. Has 274,000km and still going strong... whistle
 
WindeX:
A jap car that doesnt need its timing mechanism replaced every 100,000kms.... why anything powered with the awesome SR20DE or SR20DET... timing chains -> replaced every 250,000kms
Click to expand...
Don't twist things - he said belt, not mechanism, the implication being that the Mi16 is no worse than any other timing belt equipped car in this respect.
 
Stuey:
Don't twist things - he said belt, not mechanism, the implication being that the Mi16 is no worse than any other timing belt equipped car in this respect.
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Heheh narrrrrrrky, yeah I know dude I was just poking a bit of fun.

I just find it amusing that some of you seem to have a thing about Jap cars, you instantly write them off as bad because they are jap cars, they are some ******* awesome jap cars. Most Jap cars seem alot less fickle than Pugs from what I have read. But then I will always have a soft spot for Jap cars.

<small>[ 06 October 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: WindeX ]</small>
 
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