Pug 206 GTI 180 driving impressions

[DTwo]

There's no doubting that it's lost some bottom-end pull -- there's a thread on 206gti.net discussing that very subject as I write this.

First is the same ratio as the GTi6's (2.923 vs the "standard" 206 GTi's 3.455), others are unchanged, but I stand by my recollection that top in first on the standard model is something much more like 55. And that's where mine redlined when I went out in it for lunch ... if you want to make a standard 206 GTi do 60 in first, just make sure you do it in somebody else's ... THAT's part of the reason why you'd buy a 180, and why the 180's recognized as such a welcome change in this dimension.

So what we have here is a new 206gti 180 that's only faster than the standard 206gti everywhere over the legal speed limit, in a state where you are booked for 3kph over the speed limit (in our case).....and slower, (if only in feel) everywhere else

So how about you Mr Bern, can you see yourself lining up for some 206GTI180 action?
You seem to really enjoy your 206, the only thing you felt it lacked was power, wasn't it?

 

[Cubits]

You'll notice most of the improvements in corners, where the car has been Bouillet'ed.

 

[DTwo]

You'll notice most of the improvements in corners, where the car has been Bouillet'ed.

The original 206gti was "Bouillet'ed"........in fact the handling of the 206gti was one of the very few things nobody criticised about the car.....there were even a couple of reviews out there where the 206gti actually came out as the better handling car when compared to the clio sport....

It seems dissapointing that with almost 30kw more than standard, it can still be criticised for being less responsive or slower in some respects than the original.....

 

[Cubits]

It still gets to 100kmh briskly enough.

 

[lucin]

I have an article about the design of the GTI 180. It was done by the same man who made the 205 gti unforgettable (exit stage left), unfortunately he says peugeot wouldnt allow him to make "nice" handling, but he did the best he could without attracting the peugeot lawyers.

The Gti 180 has a serious edge over the standard gti, and i dont know if they have different suspension geometry, but this article points to "yes, yes they do".

I can scan it up for ya'll (the article, that is).

As far as i know, the only changes to suspension are lowered and stiffer front springs (-20mm) and two rods on the rear suspension which stabilises it (and means there's no room for a normal spare ... not that the 206gti has a normal spare anyway, but at least it's not a can of foam). These rods are on the 206sw (not sold here). don't know if dampers are new ... would like them if they were.

luan

 

[BW205]

Billy, I haven't had the GTi6 since February last year. My partner got in when we seperated. We're still great friends so I see it and drive it fairly often. The first and last track day I did at Wakefield was in March...so, as you can see, I'm still allowed to indulge in it every once in a while!

You had me there for a moment.....I thought you were going to sell it!!!!

Cos I remember you saying....there is no point buying a '6 and not keeping it.

Cheer
Billy

 

[mr bern]

So how about you Mr Bern, can you see yourself lining up for some 206GTI180 action? You seem to really enjoy your 206, the only thing you felt it lacked was power, wasn't it?

A 180 wouldn't be a hard decision at all, because it's just an enhanced version of what I'm already very happy with. The difference between a top speed of 210 and 220 is pretty academic, I think, but if it's a question of how long it takes to get there (or more realistically, from say 80 to 110+), the 180 should be even better.

Bottom-end pull doesn't matter that much to me, either -- after the first .2 seconds when the lights change, it's all testosterone and budget, in any case. My present car (still) has more than enough power for what I need, and so far -- touch wood -- has kept me out of trouble with the law over long distances ... to tell the truth, I'm more interested in what the 180's tuning does to second, which is a beautiful gear in the "standard" GTi that can run you from 5 to about 100.5, pulling all the way.

I don't often <i><u>over</u></i>-exercise the handling, so the extra acronyms are just gravy, for my money, that adds an extra margin of safety when I do. Because I do a bit of driving off-bitumen, I count the lack of a real spare as a big -- the only? -- disadvantage (so where did the <i>extra</i> 50kg come from?).

My own experience with resale values is that the top model is usually the one that holds its value best, or at least sustains the highest demand among second-hand buyers. In 1999, that was a GTi; today, it's a 180. (In case it's not obvious, I'm keen to take one for a test drive.)

 

[GTI124]

You had me there for a moment.....I thought you were going to sell it!!!!

Cos I remember you saying....there is no point buying a '6 and not keeping it.

Cheer
Billy

Yep, the GTi6 is just so bloody good. My ex will never sell it back to me...I've done such a good job selling it!

 

[DTwo]

A 180 wouldn't be a hard decision at all, because it's just an enhanced version of what I'm already very happy with. The difference between a top speed of 210 and 220 is pretty academic, I think, but if it's a question of how long it takes to get there (or more realistically, from say 80 to 110+), the 180 should be even better.

Bottom-end pull doesn't matter that much to me, either -- after the first .2 seconds when the lights change, it's all testosterone and budget, in any case. My present car (still) has more than enough power for what I need, and so far -- touch wood -- has kept me out of trouble with the law over long distances ... to tell the truth, I'm more interested in what the 180's tuning does to second, which is a beautiful gear in the "standard" GTi that can run you from 5 to about 100.5, pulling all the way.

I don't often over-exercise the handling, so the extra acronyms are just gravy, for my money, that adds an extra margin of safety when I do. Because I do a bit of driving off-bitumen, I count the lack of a real spare as a big -- the only? -- disadvantage (so where did the extra 50kg come from?).

My own experience with resale values is that the top model is usually the one that holds its value best, or at least sustains the highest demand among second-hand buyers. In 1999, that was a GTi; today, it's a 180. (In case it's not obvious, I'm keen to take one for a test drive.)

I'm hearing the voice of temptation there

It will be interesting to read your impressions when you get out there and drive one......

 

[Rob E]

Mr. Bern, my experience is quite different to yours in that i have found that the top spec model sells for not too much more than the base model......However, it does sell easier.

The extra 50kgs has come from additional "fruit".....which unfortunately undermines the performance of the vehicle.

There is no magic to getting excellent handling (comparitively speaking) from any car.......the magic is getting excellent handling AND ride characteristics....This is were the Pug engineers have worked magic with the 180. I am prepared to forego some ride for handling, and thats why i'll probably mod a standard GTI. Oh, and you can remove the space saver in the GTI for added "lightness"

On the "bottom end pull" aspect well have to agree to disagree on that point. How often do you see the high side of 6000rpm in daily driving?
I beleive that Torque is the key to quick commuting, and flexible touring...punching out of corners, off the line etc. There is nothing worse than waiting for a "powerfull" engine to come on cam

My 2 cents.

Cheers
Rob E

 

[XTC]

The extra 50kgs has come from additional "fruit".....which unfortunately undermines the performance of the vehicle.

The other thing people forget .. the diff between a 120kg person and a 60kg person ... as you sit high in a car the difference is even greater (not to mention you are only on one side of the car). Race car drivers are often not fat cause you have to be fit to drive and concentrate for long period is time (exception Victor Bray ... top door slammers)

- XTC206 -

 

[Rob E]

Those 17s wont help the unsprung weight..........neither will the 307 braking system - theres part of the 50kgs

 

[brenno]

Those 17s wont help the unsprung weight..........neither will the 307 braking system - theres part of the 50kgs

For sure, and I'd be tempted to downsize to a more reasonable 15" but I fear that the current setup has been Bouillet'd.

17" rims on a 1100kg hot hatch, what were they thinking?

 

[Rob E]

17" rims on a 1100kg hot hatch, what were they thinking?

This is what happens when the marketing department has to much say in the development process

The name of the game is about reducing unsprung weight / reciprocating mass.(bearing in mind 1 unsprung kilo = 4 sprung kilos) I reckon a nice light 16' would have been the go. I'd also be curious to know what those things weigh, seeing they are not a wheel specifically developed for the GTI (307 rim i beleive)

I reckon i could do some "Bouilleting" of my own, I'd no doubt lose some ride, but im looking for maximum grip. just need to do some research

 

[mr bern]

... i have found that the top spec model sells for not too much more than the base model......However, it does sell easier.

The extra 50kgs has come from additional "fruit".....which unfortunately undermines the performance of the vehicle.

Agreed -- not much more, but much easier.

I'd like to know more about the "extra fruit", because losing a spare tyre should save you 15 kg or so before you start (see http://206gti.net/faq/#37 ), so in fact that's 65 kg that needs to be accounted for. The base box is pretty well spec'd, and the extra fruit -- ESP, EBFD -- should be mostly electronic. I'd guess that that giant muffler would be the only thing you could put your hand on to account for it, because the seats should be lighter, too. And there can't be that much extra weight in slightly bigger rotors from the 307 ...

The standard GTi is a great car, and must have been a difficult act to have to follow. I don't have any preconceptions about the 180's handling or ride or torque till I've driven one; I'm looking forward to finding out for myself what to make of it. I'll let you know when I've had a go, but on paper, it looks better in all the ways that you might want a "standard" model enhanced. Or that *I* would, anyway...

 

[Rob E]

Mr. Bern,

Does your GTI run with a full size spare? I reckon a space saver would weigh around 5 kilos.

The rotors are not the weight issue - check the caliper size....Times that by 4. Likewise the wheels. Stick on bodykit, muffler assembly etc.
It all adds up.

Let me know what you reckon once you've had a drive

 

[J4RS]

Mr. Bern,

Does your GTI run with a full size spare? I reckon a space saver would weigh around 5 kilos.

The rotors are not the weight issue - check the caliper size....Times that by 4. Likewise the wheels. Stick on bodykit, muffler assembly etc.
It all adds up.

Let me know what you reckon once you've had a drive

I checked the rims out there a one off for the 180 ###!!!! :disappr:

 

[mr bern]

Mr. Bern,
Does your GTI run with a full size spare? I reckon a space saver would weigh around 5 kilos.

Yes, it has a full size spare, and I like it that way. That's what baffles me about the 180 -- you don't even get an "Arnotts" spare ... just a can of sealant and a little extra tacked on to your fuel bill every time you fill up for carrying around an EXTRA phantom 50kg, on top of the 15 or 16kg that the absence of a spare should be saving you.

Aren't the rims the same as those on the 307XSi?

 

[Rob E]

Aren't the rims the same as those on the 307XSi?

Yep i reckon so. Not sure what our previous respondent is on about.

Just had some confirmation from dealer source that pricing on standard GTI will become much more negotiable now that the 180 is available....

 

[new-pug]

Hi guys, on holidays at the moment, so just some brief comments on what i've read in this post.
Firstly Rob E, the issues you spoke of regarding the tall first gear soon become a memory once you've been in the thing for a week and learnt how to drive it. Straight line take off give a little to the ability to drop back into first and smash anything alone side you. If you want fast take off buy something turboed and boost the crap out of it or buy a V8. But as I said once you're used to it, it's not a problem (My thoughts were the same as yours, even though I only test drove a GTi, not a 180).

You guys were talking about saving 5 kg's with removing a spare??? The power/weight really isn't an issue. You'd be better off shedding some personal Kg's me thinks

From my 2000k's in mine I don't particularly have any power issues as yet.
As far as daily driving goes.....I cannot believe how comfortable this car can be when driving sensibly. The torque in each gear is fantastic. Definately appears better than the specs indicate. For example, drive up hills in fifth and can still accellerate. It does both jobs very well (sedate mode and sport mode).

The only thing I would have like to have seen is a sixth gear for the highway, but that's not a big issue. Anyway just some personal views, yoú'll all decide for yourselves in your own good time.

Cheers John