Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

As soon as the Mercedes team ran out of pace notes, in Malaysia, Dunkerton was quickest.
Getting his own back Watson was quickest in the Victorian Alps it was agreed he wouldd drive those stages as he knew them well and Dunkerton blitzed the field at Warri Gate only for the stage to be cancelled when the official left early!
Other stages in Australia were won by the Mercedes as they had people stationed to open and close gates for them!
They fitted the 4.6 diff to the 504 for Australia which made a big difference.
The car was turboed for 1979 and Bob Watson won a Victorian Championship event, then got the V6 turbo for 1980 and 1981, ultra fast but a bit daunting to drive according to Bob .
I still have the build sheets.

For sure, Graham; I was referring to Stathatos' 504, which he described as slow. He also described some of the questionable tactics by Zasada and the Mercedes works team as an indication of what it took to be fast in that event.


Do you still have it? The factory sheet also indicates standard Ti engines (they picked the more powerful ones from the litter), although they used Safari spec suspension and many other Safari parts.

The following listing is from the Sochaux factory and includes period [1976?] pricing. I have tabulated the items to read more easily.

Rally car preparation
The 504 Ti is considered as the most suit*able version to form the basis on which to develop a marathon rally car. The engine in standard form develops 106 bhp maximum, using the well proven Kugelfischer fuel injection which has showed itself to be a most reliable system in service.
The factory at Sochaux has made special provision for the preparation of the bodies to rally requirements. This takes the form of additional fabrication in specific areas, eg roll cage reinforcements, wing valances in thicker steel, double skinned front members, extra welding, etc. The lead time for this preparation in normally in the region of three months. Such work can be carried out for any serious competitor and the whole package will include the following:
1. Reinforced body
2. Selected engine from production capable of around 110 bhp
3. Differential from carburettor version (9 x35 in place of 9 x 34)
4. Reinforced suspension (standard African spec.)
Total cost: FF 10,000 plus price of the standard Ti model.
In addition to the basic unit, further items are available, listed as follows. We can also provide a good deal of other information and suggestions which have been developed from our highly successful works competition team.
This total package will provide any rally team with a very competitive vehicle, capable of long distance durability and proven reliability.

Reinforced for rallying	FF	£
2 front suspension legs	2,700 ea	349.41 ea
Rear shock absorbers	1,366ea	176.71 ea
Rear springs	270 ea	34.94 ea
Special steering rack (PAS type, smaller turning circle) LHD only	1,270	164.35
Clutch disk (metal type)	725	93.75
Hypoid Diff with limited slip (ratio 8 x 37 + 170 kph @ 7,000 rpm)	2,700	349.41
Engine and gearbox protector	1,790	231.65
Diff protector	1,350	174.71
Gearbox - close ratio	13,000	1,682.35
Safety fuel tank (100 litre)	3,500	452.94
Roll cage - Devil	?	?

Other items which are modified or adapted:
· Straight through exhaust system manufactured by Chretien
· Special uprated engine mounts and stabilizer bars
· Guard for the clutch slave cylinder
· Radiator repositioned 15mm forwards
· Rear bump stops moved to act on the middle of the rear suspension arms
· Rear cross member completely locked up
· Special rapid-fill tube for the gearbox
· Internal control for the cooling fan, additional to the thermo sensing switch Bracing bar between the tops of the front suspension mounts
Twin alternators and circuitry with snap connectors (one for standby)
· Twin coils with snap connectors
· Rubber cover for distributor
· All chassis bolts under the car have double nuts for thread protection
· Oil filter flange bolts wired for safety
· Brake compensator without the control arm but can be adjusted
· Flexible pipe between clutch and master and slave cylinder.
· Clutch slave cylinder circlip locked with wire
· Spacer flange for the sump to increase oil capacity
· Flexible brake hoses protected with tape
· Special plate to protect diff. and diff. extension
· Asbestos wrapping around R/H brake cable to protect from exhaust heat
· Inlet manifold plenum chamber made of fibre glass
· Electronic ignition control box mounted under the dash inside car on navigator's side
· Navigator has additional foot control for screen washers with large capacity reservoir and two twin water jets
· Front anti-roll bar with nylon bushes
· Safety fuel tank in boot with three fuel pumps and special rapid fill, anti spill
fuel funnel
· Radiator cap with security wire to prevent accidental loss also special engine-oil fill*er cap on the rocker cover similarly wired
· Headlamps fixed solidly into position to eliminate vibration
· Inspection plates over the tops of rear suspension mounts for quick access
· Special frame in rear to locate two spare wheels and triangular sections on the inside of the rear doors to act as retainers.

 

[JohnW]

Thank you for the pictures, John, I really enjoyed looking at them. The Dunkerton car seems well set up, the Wadman car seems to be riding on the bump stops. The Long Drive, a book I read about the 1977 London to Sydney marathon is what got me interested in long distance rallying. It was written by John Stathatos, a Greek photojournalist living in London, who participated in a 504; clearly, a combination like that was hard for me to ignore . The book reads like I am sure the marathon felt, long and slow. But the facts are fascinating and Stathatos describes the personalities of the other crews with clinical precision. I can almost see all the types he describes in his book in my own circle of rally drivers. Interestingly enough, he did not like the 504 very much (heavy and slow), especially in the beginning of the event. When the late Philip Young, who was also a participant in the 1977 event, founded the Endurance Rally Association, I kept a close watch on his events with the hope that one day I would participate. Philip was a strong advocate for the 504, he had one himself. When we met in 2012 as his London to Cape Town rally was passing through Greece (with five 504's in the entries), he was really impressed by my 504's. "You need to enter the 2016 P2P rally, time to show the world what a well prepared and driven 504 can do." And so the quest started, but the target is now the 2019 event.

My pleasure. Thanks for the book reference! I have one or two books on the first London - Sydney but didn't know the one you mentioned. I saw the first London - Sydney in the Flinders Ranges in South Australia and the second one in Adelaide, South Australia. Exciting is not a strong enough word!

That Peugeot with Bob Watson's name should have been a strong contender, with very strong design input and three of Australia's best drivers. The story of them having to build it themselves is quite special, as Graeme has said!

Four other books relevant to the Marathons are:

The Bright Eyes of Danger, by David McKay and John Smailes (1968 event
Marathon, by Nick Brittan (1968 event)
Marathon in the Dust, by Innes Ireland (1968 event)
In Control, by Bob Watson (a chapter about the Peugeot 504 in the 1977 event).

They are all worth reading. I imagine there are others.

When are you bringing the car to Australia to show it to us all?

Cheers

 

[JohnW]

Woo Hoo, found the book "The Long Drive" on AbeBooks. Duly purchased.

Thanks again for that.

 

[Mike Tippett]

I borrowed that book by Stathatos from the Vancouver Public Library around 1981 or 1982. It was a good read. I do remember him saying he hated the car at first but coming around to begrudgingly liking it by the end. I recall the advice about the gas pedal: put a block underneath to prevent over-stressing the accelerator cable at full throttle.

 

[ThanosK]

I recall the advice about the gas pedal: put a block underneath to prevent over-stressing the accelerator cable at full throttle.

That was good advice. Not only you run the risk of snapping the throttle cable, but you can also routinely turn the throttle butterfly past its fully open position and reduce air intake. We put a bump stop under the gas pedal of all the 504's (after we replace that silly floor mounted factory gas pedal). It is hard to see in the photo because it is painted, it is at three o'clock with an arrow pointing at it. The gas pedal is original works; I was initially surprised by the sloppy appearance (none of the works parts look, ahem, elegant) but it's very resilient.

 

[ThanosK]

The car had its first major shakedown, and it was flawless! My son Dino and I participated in the 18th edition of 24 HOURS GREECE this past weekend. As the name indicates, it runs for 24 hours, 11:00 a.m. Saturday to 11:00 a.m. Sunday and it includes 30 special stages in 21 hours of driving and three hours of regroupings and food/fueling breaks. This 18th edition took place in the mountains of the south, which are known (and feared) for tight, steep and twisty roads that are uneven and full of potholes. I would normally use gravel rally tires on these roads, but I was concerned that the 650 mm wheel diameter combined with the long (4.11) diff would not work well on the steep climbs from hairpin to hairpin. Service cars are not allowed in this event so carrying extra wheels was not an option. I decided on 15 inch steelies with 195/50/15 bitumen rally tires and crossed my fingers. The car did not look its best with these shoes, but hey, it's function before looks. The car worked extremely well in spite of the abuse it was subjected to. The roads were worse than expected but the suspension soaked everything up. The engine kept purring with water and oil temps staying below 80 degrees in spite of the constant 4000-6000 rpm operation. We did not even open the hood once during the entire trip. I was concerned about the poor quality fuel of the Greek countryside (the locals can sometimes get creative because of the poor economy), but there was no pinging or overheating, even though a few of the other drivers did experience both. At some point we hit thick fog, but the yellow Peugeot bulbs guided us through it. Our biggest challenge was finding fuel and food, because the timing was very tight. The fuel consumption of the engine was decent; we averaged 17 liters/ 100 km for the event (the works coupe needs double that) close to 200 liters for the entire 1150 km trip. The car has a big tank (nearly 80 liters) so it was only three fill-ups top-offs after the first full tank at the start and we had a spare 25 liter tank filled with 100 RON fuel in reserve to mix in if we had problems with the local fuel. Food was a bit tougher, there was very little time. At some point we were stopped for fuel next to a pizzeria and my 15 year old co-driver found the smell irresistible. No way, I said, it takes 20 minutes to prepare. He disappeared only to come back a few minutes later with a fresh 12 inch pie! He said that it had just come out and was going to a table so he approached the customers "we are at a rally and have no time, can I buy you guys a pitcher of beer and ask you to wait 15 minutes for another pie?" high fives all around, good luck in the rally, no need for the pitcher, no I insist thank you very much, and we were on our way devouring the pizza on the way to the next stage. Another contribution by the co-driver was an Android app (free) Rally Tripmeter. Works extremely well, much better than a Trip Master or a Terratrip and it calculates just about everything you might need. Anyway, we made it back just fine, the car handled the event like a Sunday drive (which it was, in a way, just not your average one ). This was not the case with many cars, only 40 of the nearly 70 participants crossed the finished line. Crashes on the slippery roads because of fog, breakages from potholes, rocks etc, and engine blow outs because of the flogging they received near redline on the steep climbs, claimed most of the victims; a few crews just threw in the towel because of exhaustion. The high number was a surprise, these are very well prepared historic cars with experienced crews that know what to do. The organizers are very selective as to who they accept and the cars go through strict inspection before the start. Experience has taught them that ill prepared cars and inexperienced crews can cause big problems for the event. But it was relentless; the stages kept coming at you and there were often back-to-back and not affording a chance to check if the pot hole you hit in the last stage broke an ARB linkage, if there is coolant in the radiator, etc. We made it home with just enough time to shower, change and go to awards to receive our third place trophy!

 

[addo]

What a great story! Love the pizza schmoozing tale, as well.

Congratulations on the place attained.

 

[friday403]

Excellent result and a top story to go with it. Well done!

 

[furneauxfrogger]

Great to hear your story and of your success ! It's great to see a 504 being used for its "tour de force" ie. rallying !

 

[Douvrin504]

A very nice and well-prepared 504! Thank you for your story Thanos!

Bobby

 

[gregpug]

Congratulations on a fantastic build Thanos

 

[ThanosK]

To answer the question posed by a number of people who saw the ad, yes, the car is now for sale! It was a surprisingly easy decision, as it had become a crusader searching for a crusade: It is a marathon car and there is no marathon in my future, not until 2019 anyway. Peujohn was the first to find out (I assume during an internet search on 504's) that the car is for sale, and ironically, it was his question in this forum that made me pull the trigger on the already cocked hammer. He asked what event (other than the 24 Hours Greece) did I plan to enter the car in. And the answer is "none", as I have three other rally cars far better suited to the events I participate in. So I contacted Simon Ayris, the U.K. guy that specializes in building and servicing marathon cars, and listed the car with him:
1975 Peugeot 504 Marathon Rally Car For Sale
This way I let somebody else use the car in the venues it was built for, make some needed room in my garage, and recover part of my costs. I am not at all upset to see it go, there is nothing worse than a rally car sitting unused in a parking space. And as some of you may have realized, I enjoy the preparation process almost as much as I enjoy rallying and I had a lot of fun building this car. A new project is already underway, a bare metal restoration of my recce coupe, and I am really excited about that.

 

[addo]

I understand your reasoning, always enjoy your journalism. Perhaps the next owner will be similarly inclined to share their adventures.

 

[ThanosK]

I understand your reasoning, always enjoy your journalism. Perhaps the next owner will be similarly inclined to share their adventures.

https://www.facebook.com/1790021487...002148782300/1235900456425792/?type=3&theater

You will be able to follow the next owner's adventures; it was sold to a 2016 Peking to Paris participant and the rally will be live on line. I was surprised it sold so quickly, and for full asking price. Simon Ayris told me that there were two more Peking to Paris participants interested in it as well, I guess word about the 504's is out! I am delighted that the car will be used in the rally it was built for and wish the new owner the best of luck.

 

[JohnW]

That's a lovely outcome. Good luck with the next restoration. You are a glutton for punishment!

 

[ThanosK]

The 504 is on its way to the UK, and from there to Peking! The transport truck was amazing, my mechanics are still talking about it.

I am really excited to monitor the adventure as the car makes its way to Paris!

 

[BIGRR]

Always thought the 504 was a "Classic".

 

[ThanosK]

The Peking to Paris ended on Sunday, and the 504 (the only French car in a field of 110) reached Place Vendome 7th overall and first in class. Remarkable as it bested dozens of cars with double the power to weight ratio, especially when you consider it was the second ever event for the driver and that the navigator had never rallied before. Also remarkable is that at four of the top six spots are populated by Aussies (some of them known big hitters)! Here are a couple of links to this amazing event!
The 6th Peking to Paris Motor Challenge 2016
https://www.facebook.com/PekingtoParis2016/?fref=ts

 

[Armidillo]

So the 504 you built was clearly 'fit for purpose' - just think how much better it would have done in your hands .

Did they have a support crew, and did they have any mechanical problems along the way?

Cheers

Alec

 

[FIVEDOOR]

On quick perusal I saw HQ and P76 among the competitors.

Competitors. Many of the teams have their own blogs and are linked to this page, at least the ones I opened were :-

Competitor Links | The 6th Peking to Paris Motor Challenge 2016

Photo gallery:- Peking - Paris 2016 | Gerard Brown