Joining wires

dmccurtayne

Member
These are actually the peugeot preferred repair they supply these to dealers via a special tools kit it just is important to get a quality kit the cheap ones are very nasty
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
what are considered quality ones? I find quality very hard to find. Expensive often doesn't mean quality (just like cheap doesn't always mean rubbish :) ).
 

Shoji

Renault 17 TL 1312
Have used a lot of these. Practice on some loose wire first. Prep your tinned wires first. You'll see how much insulator you need to strip from the wire by a quick study of the solder sleave. Put one sleave on one wire in correct pos. I use a very small gas torch. Apply heat to the end of this sleave so it sticks to the wire. Now slip the other wire in and push the strands together so they combine. Add heat to the other end of the sleave and now you have them captured. Apply a little heat carefully so not catch fire because they do! Go around the whole sleave. Use your best glasses to see the solder eventually melt over and in the strands. I actually don't trust the sleave as an insulator so I have a sleave of heat shrink with glue on one wire ready to slide over the solder sleave and apply heat.
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Raychem is the name you want here. Lotsa knock-offs.

Now that bumps the price up a little if you look on ebay :) There is next to nothing listed in Australia on ebay. All the other solder sleeves seems to be unbranded (so will all likely be the same). They look to be available from aircraft suppliers and electronics places!
 

driven

1000+ Posts
I usually solder and heat shrink wires. To join them it can be quite difficult to splice and hold them together while they are being soldered.... Then you often find a "solder spike" where you have moved the iron away that can spike through the heat shrink.

Has anyone tried "solder sleeves". The idea looks fantastic if it actually works.


seeya,
Shane L.
I use similar ones but with crimp. Use body of soldering iron to shrink the tube
Solder is not recommended for car usage as it is brittle and will crack with vibration in a car
Not solder
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
I use similar ones but with crimp. Use body of soldering iron to shrink the tube
Solder is not recommended for car usage as it is brittle and will crack with vibration in a car
Not solder

I've never owned a crimper that'll do a connection I can't pull apart ........... I've heard that solder will crack. I've never experienced it though :)
 

neural revolt

New member
I was taught many years ago that electrical connections, (i.e. wires, electronic components etc) should initially be strong enough to withstand mechanical stress without the use of soldering. Soldering the connection/joint was to ensure good electrical conductivity.
 

COL

Alpine A110
I've never owned a crimper that'll do a connection I can't pull apart ........... I've heard that solder will crack. I've never experienced it though :)
The trick to getting a successful crimped connection is to use the correct size crimp for the wire size and the correct crimper for the crimp being used, if you don't you will run the risk that the crimp will eventually fail or will pull off straight away.

Just my :2cents: worth
 

The Gonz

Member
Crimp sizes are generally colour coded. I have yellow, red and blue, all different sizes respectively. As Col says, using the right size crimp works. Don't discount soldering, though. The best join can be a crimp with solder wicked into the wires to creat a solid block at the crimp.

As for creating a spike when withdrawing the soldering iron, well, that's just bad technique. It's a shame the Air Force stopped training High Reliability Hand Soldering. I was one of their last graduates as a technician, not that it makes me an expert.
 

Haakon

1000+ Posts
Never use solder in a car. Never use those shitty colour coded insulated crimp joints.

Do it properly with a proper crimping tool and open crimps. Use heat shrink tube to insulate.


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bluey504

1000+ Posts
Never use solder in a car. Never use those shitty colour coded insulated crimp joints.

Do it properly with a proper crimping tool and open crimps. Use heat shrink tube to insulate.


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These are the best 'Bang For Buck' connector, a bit of a fiddle but when done properly these have great mechanical strength."The Pull Test".
Can quite remember getting 'MY' crimper tested every three months to NATO spec. Use to prepare the wire gauges, crimps before hand, because the testers weren't capable of doing it!
It's laughable that a QA qualified officer can't set up the testing requirements.
:drink:Brendan.
 

PeterT

1000+ Posts
Soldering vrs crimping is always a good debate and I'm sitting on the fence. I'm fairly sure all the solder joins I've done in cars are still intact. I know the issues, but I'm confident that the use of eutectic solder and competent preparation minimises the issues. However, this still doesn't bode well in the motorsport world and is strictly frowned upon. If you join the FB group, Motorsport Wiring Alliance, you'll see what I mean. DMC crimpers are the tool of choice there.
 

AlexB

New member
Don't discount soldering, though. The best join can be a crimp with solder wicked into the wires to creat a solid block at the crimp.
Solder wicked up the wire is the crux of the solder vs crimp debate. See below.

As for creating a spike when withdrawing the soldering iron, well, that's just bad technique. It's a shame the Air Force stopped training High Reliability Hand Soldering. I was one of their last graduates as a technician, not that it makes me an expert.
Agree, and when my technique fails on joins that I consider are safe to solder I use my really small side cutters to remove spike prior to fitting heatshrink.

Driven !!!
Do not know what solder you use, but I have done thousands of joints on Off-Road race car systems and never had solder crack or break. Never just crimp, always get "dry joints".

Ray
If using Packard connectors and the Packard crimp tool, no need to solder.
If using Deutsch connectors and the Deutsch crimp tool, no need to solder.
If using milspec connectors and the proper crimp tool, no need to solder.

If using those simple red, blue, yellow crimps like
then be prepared for failure.

But if the wire is never going to flex in any way and you can't justify the DMC crimpers you can get acceptable results if you use https://www.jaycar.com.au/heavy-duty-ratchet-crimping-tool-for-insulated-terminals/p/TH1829

I was taught many years ago that electrical connections, (i.e. wires, electronic components etc) should initially be strong enough to withstand mechanical stress without the use of soldering. Soldering the connection/joint was to ensure good electrical conductivity.
With those red/blue/yellow crimps I have sometimes stripped back a bit more of the wire than normal so that strands protrude out of the coloured cover and I apply a little bit of solder to this protrusion being careful to not allow the solder to 'wick' back up the wire.

Soldering vrs crimping is always a good debate and I'm sitting on the fence. I'm fairly sure all the solder joins I've done in cars are still intact. I know the issues, but I'm confident that the use of eutectic solder and competent preparation minimises the issues. However, this still doesn't bode well in the motorsport world and is strictly frowned upon. If you join the FB group, Motorsport Wiring Alliance, you'll see what I mean. DMC crimpers are the tool of choice there.
PeterT, I can confirm your solder joins on the 306 XSi door harness have failed, and that leads directly into why there is such a debate over crimp vs solder.

Automotive wire uses multiple strands of copper and more strands makes the wire more flexible. When you crimp a connector to a wire with the correct tool it applies the appropriate tension over all of the multiple strands of copper that actually still allows minuscule movement of the individual strands when the wire behind the connector gets flexed. Should you solder a crimped connection in the belief it makes it more reliable you have created a situation where the solder 'wicks' back up the wire from the connection and each strand of what was multiple flexible strands of copper terminates into a solid block of solder that should the wire flex each strand will break at the same spot. Note that over crimping (too much force) will cause a similar point of failure.
Now, if the wire is forever securely fastened this would not be a problem. BUT, as NASA and anybody in the motorsport world have found, these connectors are to items that often need to be replaced or swapped out to troubleshoot problems. And the guys doing this are rarely gentle and always in a rush, so before you know it the harness that was once nicely cable tied has been flexed so often that any soldered connections have now begun to break the individual strands all at the 'solid' block of solder.
 
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