Indianapolis F1 GP****spoiler****

Some observations :

1) That press release doesn't mention the fact that the Michelin teams offered to race FOR NO POINTS with the chicane installed. They even offered to all start at the back of the grid.

At least, that is my understanding of what Flavio Briatore said.

2) Regarding 'quick chicane installations'. Personally, I'm against altering the track half-way through a race weekend. But, there have been instances of F1 implementing 'half-arsed' chicanes in the middle of an existing race-track. I'm pretty sure that the Spanish GP of '94, ran a month or so after Senna's death, featured a tyre-wall 'chicane' right in the middle of an existing straight. The only difference is that it existed from the Friday morning of the race weekend.
 
Pug-a-lug said:
Some observations :

1) That press release doesn't mention the fact that the Michelin teams offered to race FOR NO POINTS with the chicane installed. They even offered to all start at the back of the grid.

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As da_prancin_schu ahve mention before racing for no point was never going to work in Ferreri and Jordan point of view (Ie schumi getting run off the road by say JPM).

I say as a F1 fan (with the exception of the American), we should just get on with it. I mean this season is going to be the season that everyone going to remember for years to come!

Close racing between at least 4 different teams at various stage of the season, plus the controversies, and we might either see the biggest comeback (by Michael) or finally see someone else beating him! :cheers:
 
Pug-a-lug said:
Some observations :

1) That press release doesn't mention the fact that the Michelin teams offered to race FOR NO POINTS with the chicane installed. They even offered to all start at the back of the grid.

At least, that is my understanding of what Flavio Briatore said.
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Thats because it was never made as an official statement by all Michellin teams... kinda too little too late. - Chris
 
Pug-a-lug said:
2) Regarding 'quick chicane installations'. Personally, I'm against altering the track half-way through a race weekend. But, there have been instances of F1 implementing 'half-arsed' chicanes in the middle of an existing race-track. I'm pretty sure that the Spanish GP of '94, ran a month or so after Senna's death, featured a tyre-wall 'chicane' right in the middle of an existing straight. The only difference is that it existed from the Friday morning of the race weekend.
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That is true, but the reasons for it were completely different. The GPDA agreed that they should place a tyre chicane before the previously existing 4th gear right-left chicane - because the runoff of that particular chicane was a tiny bit of gravel and a concrete wall.

The difference being, the chicane was installed because the circuit was unsafe, as opposed to a few cars being unsafe.

Flavio was against the technical regulations changing after the deaths at Imola and after Wendlinger's accident at Monaco in order to slow the cars down. In response, he stated that he could not gurantee the safety of his cars with these changes to which the FIA threw him out...only to be let back in again once he backed down.
 
Wow, look how at how one incident has set the motorsport world ablaze!... even here the discoussions are spicy! - Chris

ps. since heads WILL roll and i expect a few job vacancies at a few palces will be open, first dibs on test driver @ Renault!!! (on Goodyear tyres??) :D :roflmao:
 
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: and until Sunday it was such a great F1 season (compared to recent years). I hope things get sorted out without a whole flood of court cases...however I fear that not to be the case. Shumi is now in possible contention for the championship if he does well for the rest of the season (I think alonso or kimi will take it though)

I am just looking forward to Mangy-Cours now.
:(
 
"After practice, Michelin sent all their Friday and Saturday tyres to a laboratory in Greenfield, South Carolina, a 1000 km away from Indianapolis. X-rays and simulations were expected to supply an answer to their burning questions. In the meantime a charter flight was leaving Clermont-Ferrand on its way to the United States with Barcelona spec tyres on board. However, after deeper thought, the teams refused this option:
“How can Michelin say that this tyre would do the job, if they don’t know why the other didn’t? It is an even bigger risk to use a tyre that we have never run here,” McLaren’s Martin Whitmarsh said. “In Barcelona you have the highest lateral forces, but that is not the question in Indy. Here you need a tyre that can stand an extreme vertical load.”


Not to mention the letter the FIA sent 2 weeks earlier to each tyre manufacture highlighting that they are not to sacrifice safety for performance….

Not only that, but Michelin only had the one tyre at Indianapolis where the regulations stipulates 2 types, one of lower performance and greater durubility.



Ferrari also did not disagree with the chicane proposal. They sat on the side and said nothing. Even if they did agree, it was the FIA who were ultimately responsible and would not have been able to sanction a chicane anyway.

It is clear that only Michelin are only to blame. They did not know the exact problem and therefore could not gurantee the tyres in any circumstance, chicane or not.


The FIA is there to enforce regulations, a regulator, not a problem solver.


Michelin should have withdrawn, as per below:

"
2005 F1 Sporting Regulations 21 / 35 25 May 2005

131) The starting grid will be published four hours before the race. Any competitor whose car(s) is (are) unable to start for any reason whatsoever (or who has good reason to believe that their car(s) will not be ready to start) must inform the stewards accordingly at the earliest opportunity and, in any event, no later than 45 minutes before the start of the race. If one or more cars are withdrawn the grid will be closed up accordingly. The final starting grid will be published 45 minutes before the start of the race."
 
Playlife, can i ask were you got the above from? ( As I know that Michelin DID have 2 types of tyres at indy, its part of pre-reg's and parc ferme conditions.) - Chris
 
Cool thanks for the link. Obvioulsy my insider is missing bits...lol - Chris
 
PLAYLIFE said:
Not only that, but Michelin only had the one tyre at Indianapolis where the regulations stipulates 2 types, one of lower performance and greater durubility.
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You wouldn't happen to know whether the regs state anything about a "backup" type tyre would you? This last couple of days is the first time I have heard this description, it has always been my understanding (from the highly esteemed source of tv commentary/media coverage) that the two tyre specifications that are required usually are two different compounds so teams can vary strategy depending on what works best.
 
a rather interesting read of Paul Stoddart's account of what happened.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns15087.html

"By this time, the nine teams had discussed running a non-championship race, or a race in which the Michelin teams could not score points, and even a race whereby only the Michelin teams used the new chicane, and indeed, every other possible option that would allow 20 cars to participate and put on a show, thereby not causing the enormous damage to Formula 1 that all those present knew would otherwise occur. By now, most present felt the only option was to install the chicane and race, if necessary, without Ferrari, but with 18 cars, in what would undoubtedly be a non-championship race. We discussed with Bernie the effects of the FIA withdrawing its staff, and agreed among ourselves a race director, a safety car driver, and other essential positions, and all agreed that, under the circumstances, what was of paramount importance was that the race must go ahead. All further agreed that since we would most likely be denied FIA facilities, such as scales and post-race scrutineering, every competitor would instruct his team and drivers to conduct themselves in the spirit of providing an entertaining race for the good of F1."
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off topic, but I guess we all saw this coming:

BMW confirm Sauber takeover
BMW will enter their own Formula One team in the 2006 world championship after buying a majority share in Sauber, it was announced on Wednesday. The German carmaker also wants to continue supplying engines to current partner Williams.
Felipe Massa (BRA) Sauber Petronas C24. Formula One World Championship, Rd 9, United States Grand Prix, Qualifying Day, Indianapolis, USA, 18 June 2005In a press conference at their Munich headquarters, BMW’s Motorsport Director, Dr Mario Thiessen, sat alongside team principal Peter Sauber, revealed details of the new agreement, which will come into effect at the start of January, 2006.

BMW is acquiring shares from Peter Sauber and will successively take over those held by long-time Sauber backers, Credit Suisse, by the end of 2008. Peter Sauber will retain a stake in the team and will assist BMW as an adviser, but withdraw from his operational responsibilities.

The new, and as yet unnamed, team will be run under a single BMW management structure, but from two bases - BMW’s Munich plant in Germany and Sauber’s existing base in Hinwil, Switzerland, The latter will operate as an independent Swiss company affiliated to BMW, and plans for expansion, in terms of both facilities and staff, are already in place.

"For Sauber, the partnership with BMW is an ideal solution as it supports the two goals which have always been paramount for me,” said Sauber, whose team first entered Formula One racing in 1993. “Firstly, to offer the team the possibility of improving their sporting performance, and secondly, to safeguard the site at Hinwil and the jobs of today’s 300-strong workforce.

”The involvement of six car manufacturers has resulted in significant changes to Formula One in recent years. For the private teams in particular, it has become increasingly difficult to secure solid financing which enables the achievement of sporting success as well. For some years, I have also been thinking in terms of succession planning - in the light of the very specific demands of Formula One that is no easy matter.

”The partnership with BMW guarantees continuity. For that reason, too, it represents an ideal solution, because I know it will give the workforce a very good outlook. Over more than 35 years, I have guided this company through often stormy seas, which is why it is so important for me to know that it will be in goods hands in future as well."

BMW admitted that their initial talks with Sauber had only concerned engine supply, but that negotiations quickly progressed to a more serious level. The German company stressed that their decision to buy into Sauber reflected their long-term commitment to Formula One racing.

"For BMW, Formula One is thus the right platform for demonstrating our competence as a car manufacturer,” said Professor Burkhard Goschel, BMW Board Member for Development and Purchasing. “Success in Formula One increasingly depends on the perfect interplay of all factors. That is why we have resolved to extend our involvement beyond our present role of engine partner.

“With a team managed by BMW we will, as of next year, take on responsibility for the entire package, which will include the key factors of the chassis, tyres and drivers. We do not expect instant success from the new constellation, but we are convinced that we have chosen the right path for the long term."

BMW also confirmed that Williams had been made fully aware of their plans ahead of Wednesday’s announcement. “Naturally this decision impacts on our partnership,” added Goschel. “We want to discuss the future options together with WilliamsF1 in order to find the right way forward for both sides.”

The new BMW team will be presented to the public at the beginning of 2006. In the meantime, the Germany company will be busy working out its new managerial, technical and driver line-up.
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"even a race whereby only the Michelin teams used the new chicane"

I can't believe they would do that, yet not simply slow down to the equivalent speed on the original corner, the mind boggles!
 
mistareno said:
As for a refund?
If you paid $15 to see a movie and saw 10% of the movie, would wou want a refund?
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Damn right I would, but the fine print on most of these tickets often say that is an event is cancelled, postponed or substituted (yes they can change the event/artist/team etc on you!!) that a refund is entirely up the promoters of the event. So legally they are OK, morally they stink.

- xTc -
 
Ive been enjoying the Hot Sunny weather for a change here in the uk so ive not been on here for a while,thought id catch up on the news :rolleyes:
I like most of you was gutted to only see 6 cars race.
Bernie did keep his word,he said there will be 20 cars on the grid for the start of the race :D
Its a shame raceday didnt go to plan with all cars racing.

I Blame Michelin,all they had to do was there home work a month or so before going to Indianapolis and there wouldnt have been all the tyre problems.

http://www.indy500.com/

Just click news on the main page,then theres a search box on the right,type in

resurfacing

Cheers chips.
 
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johnh875 said:
You wouldn't happen to know whether the regs state anything about a "backup" type tyre would you? This last couple of days is the first time I have heard this description, it has always been my understanding (from the highly esteemed source of tv commentary/media coverage) that the two tyre specifications that are required usually are two different compounds so teams can vary strategy depending on what works best.
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Sorry not sure what the regulations specify. I too don't recall ever reading that particular regulation; I am aware that there is to be no more than two tyre compounds, but not sure whether that applies to the points raised by the FIA in that letter.
 
Elsewhere I found out the regs mention the teams have to bring 2 tyre specifications and choose which they are going to use to qual & race on, but there is no mention of a lower performance more durable tyre. Sounds like a convenient interpretation by the FIA.

Re the refund I hope something happens but I would think that legally it is not required, a whole race was run, it was just not a very good race. It would be like watching Legally Blonde 2 then asking for a refund (no I haven't seen that movie, I am not insane!)
 
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