ID19 Engine and gearbox for sale

[jhovel]

I have a 1963 (?) ID19P engine and 4-speed gearbox for sale. I was going to put them in my 11B Normale but sold it some time ago without doing the conversion....
The engine is in very good condition internally, without any discernible wear of big end or con rod bearings, pistons, rings or bores. I've reassembled the engine without gaskets etc for storage.
It's complete, apart from missing carby and alternator. Starter is with it as is the clutch. The water pump is very corroded. Comes with a spare head and water pump housing and some small bits.
The gearbox has also been checked over and is in good condition. It has the brake disk on one side and I had started preliminary machining of the output shaft and bearing housing on the other side for the B11 conversion. The photos show more detail.
I would like AU$1000 for the lot, please.

 

[Rally]

Would any one know what is involved in fitting this type of block in a Lt 15 with the origional gear box and cylinder head .
My Lt 15 has very low oil pressure and I quite like the idea of putting a " modern " 5 main bearing block in her as long as she still looks origional .

 

[DoubleChevron]

This is an early 3 bearing motor almost the same as the Tractions. The give-away of the 5 bearing short stroke later motors is the evenly spaced spark plugs in the head. The later motor would probably be a much more difficult converson.

This one is from a pre-63 ID19 (forward running exhaust).

 

[gerrypro]

Would any one know what is involved in fitting this type of block in a Lt 15 with the origional gear box and cylinder head .
My Lt 15 has very low oil pressure and I quite like the idea of putting a " modern " 5 main bearing block in her as long as she still looks origional .

This engine has an almost identical setup for the crankshaft. i.e. it is a three-main bearing unit!

 

[Roger Wilkinson]

Welcome, Joe!

From memory, ID19 engines changed from P to FR designation in September 1962.

Roger

 

[jhovel]

Welcome, Joe!

From memory, ID19 engines changed from P to FR designation in September 1962.

Roger

Hi Roger. This is the engine I bought off your friend in Northern NSW. His name escapes me at present. He and I went right through the engine when I picked it up at the time.

 

[bobsie]

Hi Roger. This is the engine I bought off your friend in Northern NSW. His name escapes me at present. He and I went right through the engine when I picked it up at the time.

Would any one know what is involved in fitting this type of block in a Lt 15 with the origional gear box and cylinder head .
My Lt 15 has very low oil pressure and I quite like the idea of putting a " modern " 5 main bearing block in her as long as she still looks origional .

As mentioned this is a 3 main bearing engine. The block is very similar to the traction block. Two immediate issues of fitting are the drive off the cam to the bell housing in the ID is a spline (a dog in the Traction) and the clutch plate splines are quite different.
It has been done but is not exactly straight forward.

 

[Trading Estate]

Sounds like a good prospect for a 4 speed upgrade in a traction anda reasonable price . Plenty have been done . There was kit that the TOC in the uk used to sell. Not sure what is available now. Bobsie has one in one of his cars.

 

[jhovel]

I have all the construction details for the conversion and they can go with the engine and gearbox, of course. With a lathe and some ingenuity and skills it is not a very difficult upgrade.

 

[Rally]

Thanks for all the knowledgeable replies , I thought all IDs had the five bearing motor.
Would my Traction head fit on this ID block , I want to keep it looking standard

 

[jaahn]

Hmm Rally, would it be easier to just rebuild your motor with the later bearings and rods with slippers. That might be the only difference if you use the Traction head. Are you against taking a couple of mm of the head too to get the compression up a bit to 1970 levels. I have done that and it works OK. Plenty of meat on those heads.
And while you are at it remove some kgs off the back of the flywheel. Makes the gear changes less ponderous, the clutch pressure plate is a flywheel itself anyway
Jaahn

 

[Andrew B]

The TA head will go onto the ID block just use the TA push rods. The main thins to look at are the layshaft in bell housing. The ID has a spline dive and ta dog drive. You will need to have spline on one end and TA pulley fitting on other. They are of different lengths so cutting both and jointing at right length is needed. The other thing is the flywheel/clutch. Use the ID clutch with a TA friction plate. The flywheel will need machining to the out edge off to fit the TA bellhousing the the ID block. Use the TA timing cover for rear engine mount and two side TA engine mounts as well. The engine number plate is in different place on both blocks. The mounting area of the high pressure pump needs a cover. Not sure this will give the result of looking standard us you want. Hope this helps.

 

[DoubleChevron]

this motor above isn't being advertised as a running motor. Given it all needs to come apart either way, you could just use the bits from the good motor in your block.

It sounds liek the above motor has been right to bits, so you would need a full gasket kit ... the liners might have been out so you will need to set there protrusion and re-assembled everything with new seals. if your going to do that, why not move the good bits to your block ?

Probably best to drop the sump on the motor if your going to buy it and check there is no surface rust on any internal components. Given its been apart and checked, unless assembly lube was used when it was bolted back together, there is no oil film on the internal parts to protect them from rust This really is the best way to buy a motor for use, as you can whip the head and sump off and check everything for yourself

 

[Rally]

Hmm Rally, would it be easier to just rebuild your motor with the later bearings and rods with slippers. That might be the only difference if you use the Traction head. Are you against taking a couple of mm of the head too to get the compression up a bit to 1970 levels. I have done that and it works OK. Plenty of meat on those heads.
And while you are at it remove some kgs off the back of the flywheel. Makes the gear changes less ponderous, the clutch pressure plate is a flywheel itself anyway
Jaahn

I had thought of using later rods with slipper bearings but I am not certain that the crank is good enough .
I will certainly up the comp a bit next the heads off her.

 

[Rally]

The TA head will go onto the ID block just use the TA push rods. The main thins to look at are the layshaft in bell housing. The ID has a spline dive and ta dog drive. You will need to have spline on one end and TA pulley fitting on other. They are of different lengths so cutting both and jointing at right length is needed. The other thing is the flywheel/clutch. Use the ID clutch with a TA friction plate. The flywheel will need machining to the out edge off to fit the TA bellhousing the the ID block. Use the TA timing cover for rear engine mount and two side TA engine mounts as well. The engine number plate is in different place on both blocks. The mounting area of the high pressure pump needs a cover. Not sure this will give the result of looking standard us you want. Hope this helps.

Thanks great info there .
Do you see any problems rebuilding my TA block with the ID crank and rods

 

[Andrew B]

Yes no way you can use a ID shaft in TA block. Flywheel stud pattern is different for a start. Only item from a ID engine that is usable is the rods if the TA crank is not too far undersize. The max grind size is 1.25 under in ID bearings but check if you get them 1st supply is hit and miss.

 

[kenlin]

For what it's worth, the engine number on this block matches that for an ID 19 sold in Sydney on 30 June 1961, to someone living at Putney in Sydney. Best wishes fore the project.

Ken

 

[David S]

French or Heidelberg ID? You could note the chassis and engine numbers etc. in this thread:

Longstroke ds/id census

Since a lot of the information collated was lost during the AF crash, I thought it might be a good idea to revive this important document that Gilbert Henry started many years ago. I'm looking at (further) tidying and correcting this census as new information rolls in. If there's enough...

www.aussiefrogs.com

 

[Roger Wilkinson]

The engine came from Buttercup Bob and the gearbox came from me.

Roger

 

[jaahn]

I had thought of using later rods with slipper bearings but I am not certain that the crank is good enough .
I will certainly up the comp a bit next the heads off her.

Rally it is quite possible to re-shim the big end bearings and the mains to take up the wear. They were originally built, in an old style with shims between the saddle faces so shims could be removed to reduce the clearance caused by normal wear, if somebody has not thrown them away. Any flaking of the white metal can be repaired by using a plumbers soldering iron and scraping to fit. I have done all that before and it works as originally designed. Note white metal does require a bit more clearance than harder new bearing metals.

The oil pump can be recoed a bit to improve its clearances too and the relief valve checked and set. Those old engines did not use high oil pressure anyway but relied on just supplying a steady flow of oil to the bearings and topend. You are not racing it are you ??

I could elaborate on it if required. I spent a bit of time doing that sort of fitting when I was an apprentice, as it was common then on machinery as well as the old engines. Later working on old steam engines and similar, often had compressible 'spacers' between the bearing brasses so you could just tighten them up a 'touch' if they needed it. Ahh the good ol'days !
Jaahn