How reliable is the C5? - No Rose coloured glasses please

jmn said:
I've have to state a prejudice against diesels right here and now.

The fuel savings are illusory: you've paid for them at the outset with the higher diesel engine price and will continue to pay with higher diesel fuel prices. When something goes wrong out of the warranty period, you will pay b-i-i-i-g time! Any diesel repair will be more costly compared to petrol. Even repairs to items unrelated to diesel/petrol issues can turn out eye-wateringly expensive in some makes of diesels.

If it wasn't for the above, I could almost have fallen in love with the new VW Golf 2.0 diesel that I test drove a few days ago. What a goer!. Has to be said that with its six-speed auto gear box it totally shaded the Cit diesels I have driven - yes, I know it's a smaller car but even so, still weighs 1350 kgs. The first gear feels very low and the surge of torque in second and third took me totally by surprise.

What a shame that Peugeot can't think a bit laterally, take the bit between the teeth and equip their cars with decent auto gearboxes. Certainly, the V6 will come with the six-speed so why not their diesels? Just about any tranny can be "beefed-up" to cope with different torque outputs. Their own AL4 is one which comes in at least two guises according to the mechanics at my dealer.

It pains me to see some carmakers come out with worthwhile mechanical improvements while "my" marque indulges in navel-gazing exercises, after all, five-speed autos are not rare at the C5 price range now. My petrol C5 auto will be staying in the garage for quite some time methinks. Which won't be any cross to bear. I don't really lust for more power, rather, just can't help feeling what a truly great car it would be with another one or two cogs.

Happy motoring all.

jmn.
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jmn
You say that the fuel savings are illusory and this may be true if you are only talking about money. However the reduction in litres used and the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions per kilometre are undeniable.
So in my book, modern common rail diesels are a very good thing for the environment in spite of Government discouragement (no reduction in the Diesel fuel Excise, and poor ratings according to the subjective criteria used by the Govt. Greenhouse Office).
It's also noteworthy that when and if you can run on bio-diesel fuel, the emissions are pretty well equal to the CO2 that was absorbed by the plants that produced the fuel — so your car would be "neutral" in terms of emissions.
 
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GTI124 said:
Why do you want more gears? Driving around the C5, the transmission is a bit clunky, but I do like some of things it's trying to do, like holding gears rather than shfting up at the wrong time like most autos do.

You want a 5th gear for what exactly? better cuising or better one-up-manship at the pub? The torque spread of the diesel is so large, what on earth do you need to flipping high in the rev range for exactly? It's returning impressive fuel economy and it drives well, so I'm trully puzzled why you're demanding more gears!

The main reason why we're seeing 5, 6 and 7 speed transmissions is to compensate for the peaky engines that are coming out and to meet new emission/fuel economy standards in Europe. So here we have a C5 diesel (old or new ones) which returns great fuel economy and is so tractable, and the problem is... the gearbox?

The 2.0 diesel that is in the 407 puts out more power but is quite a peaky diesel engine. I believe it's the same 2.0 that is in the Mondeo and Focus TDCIs. A 5 speed box would help that car. The 2.2 that is in the C5 now is torquier down low and puts out lower figures, lower down the rev range. I'm sure the 5 speed would slot in there, but I struggle to see what good it would do...

I can see some of the bad points, but I can't swallow servicing as being an issue with them over what can go wrong with modern fuel injection cars. They're both as complicated as each other. Common rail diesels or direct injection petrol engines, they're both going to be bloody expensive if something goes wrong out of warranty.

I do see that the fuel saving benefits of diesel in Australia are fairly minimal. In Europe it makes more sense with their registration (emissions based) and insurance systems.
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GTI 124
I agree with your comments about servicing costs. At least the diesel has no high tension ignition system to worry about !!
Concerning gearboxes, I'm interested in your comment about "peaky" engines. The main Citroën web site actually has (tiny) torque curves for two of the three new diesels — but the Zoom button just doesn't work, so you can't download the curves to study at your leisure. However the essential fact is that the flatter the torque curve, the fewer gears are needed for smooth and steady progress.
I've already commented in another post about the fuel savings — in money terms they are indeed minimal in Australia, but environmentally they are really substantial (in fact I think that the price of automotive diesel fuel is a National scandal !!)
 
Hi Roger, my comments re: the newer diesels being peaky have come from the reviews I've read or watched on Ford based cars using the same engine. The TDCi and S-type Jag all produce a power band that is quite narrow and high in the rev band. When I use the term "peaky" it's not the same peaky you'd call a petrol engine, just peaky in diesel terms. Considering a lot of manufacturers are targetting these powerful new diesel engines at the hot hatch market in Europe, if you were to drive these cars in such an enthusiastic manner you would be crying out for more gears to keep the car in the narrow power band.

In a C5, the application is different, people don't drive like that in a C5, which is why I think a 4 speed is adequate in the auto for the old 2.0L and new 2.2L diesels
 
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Everything I've heard from euro/british press about the 407 2.0 (136hp) HDi indicates that it has terrible turbo lag.

I'd be interested in having a go of a PSA diesel, as I've recently driven both the 1.9 and 2.0 TDI VW Golfs (DSG and manual versions).
 
Any opinion on the C5 V6 3.0L? I'm looking at selling my C4 and purchasing one.

How does the engine go?
 
Uga Boga said:
Any opinion on the C5 V6 3.0L? I'm looking at selling my C4 and purchasing one.

How does the engine go?
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It usually goes by turning the key or do you mean brumm, brumm?

Chance.
 
Chance said:
It usually goes by turning the key or do you mean brumm, brumm?

Chance.
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ahh... thought it would have voice recognition... oh well.

Yes, i mean't in terms of performance...
 
Uga Boga said:
ahh... thought it would have voice recognition... oh well.

Yes, i mean't in terms of performance...
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Only one way to find out ... Take one for a test drive ... Infact your such a good customer I'd be requesting a V6 C5 for a weekend/several days to try it doing the work you will want it to do.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
DoubleChevron said:
Only one way to find out ... Take one for a test drive ... Infact your such a good customer I'd be requesting a V6 C5 for a weekend/several days to try it doing the work you will want it to do.

seeya,
Shane L.
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That would look funny, as neither the Citroen or Peugeot dealers would let people take the car without the dealer in it. Insurance reasons they said, needless to say when you want to test it out with the whole family (5) in it to see how you all fit strapping the dealer to the roof didnt work. Funnily enough we were able to take a 140k Touareg for a drive in peace and the Holden dealer happily gave us the keys to the Statesman, when Govt purchasing came into the equation there was only one choice. There is a massive difference in 3k price drop with 1800$ dealer delivery (Citroen) 1200$ drop with 900$ d d (pug) and 17k drop and 100$ dealer delivery (statesman)
 
cruiserman said:
That would look funny, as neither the Citroen or Peugeot dealers would let people take the car without the dealer in it. Insurance reasons they said, needless to say when you want to test it out with the whole family (5) in it to see how you all fit strapping the dealer to the roof didnt work. Funnily enough we were able to take a 140k Touareg for a drive in peace and the Holden dealer happily gave us the keys to the Statesman, when Govt purchasing came into the equation there was only one choice. There is a massive difference in 3k price drop with 1800$ dealer delivery (Citroen) 1200$ drop with 900$ d d (pug) and 17k drop and 100$ dealer delivery (statesman)
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Sounds like Crap to me .... They should have let any serious customer loose in a car if they intend to purchase ....

Year ago when the CX was new a guy at the hospital my father worked at was interested in buying a new CX. Apparantly they chucked him the keys and told him they didn't want to see him back for a week. You see you need a couple of days to get used to the car..... Apparantly he took it back 3days later as he reckoned if he'd kept it the full week he'd have spent far more than he intended to and purchased the CX.

Now Uga Boga has proven himself to be a good customer, paying retail upfront without question for a car he's not driven. If they were to *stupid* to let him have a demonstrator for a few days, they deserve to lose him as a customer (forever).

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Well, my first service for the C4 is coming up. I'll ask Continentals for a used C5 V6 courtesy car.

Top notch dealership, top notch people, i'm sure they'll oblige.

By the way, this is the same V6 that'll be in the C6 right?
 
DoubleChevron said:
Sounds like Crap to me .... They should have let any serious customer loose in a car if they intend to purchase ....

seeya,
Shane L.
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Crap it may sound but real it was. I was looking seriously into the cars and informed the dealers that Rhodium Asset Solutions (Totalcare) would be contacting them get quotes etc. (Which they did) Having to drive the car with the dealer in it while my wife waited at the dealership was crap, she then went for a drive while I looked around at the other cars. This happened at both Citroen (Gulson Motors in Canberra) and Peugeot (Melrose Automobiles) When push came to shove the level of cooperation I received having booked the drives a week in advance was simply not good enough. I took my money elsewhere (less money for a car with a higher list price I might add).
 
cruiserman said:
Crap it may sound but real it was. I was looking seriously into the cars and informed the dealers that Rhodium Asset Solutions (Totalcare) would be contacting them get quotes etc. (Which they did) Having to drive the car with the dealer in it while my wife waited at the dealership was crap, she then went for a drive while I looked around at the other cars. This happened at both Citroen (Gulson Motors in Canberra) and Peugeot (Melrose Automobiles) When push came to shove the level of cooperation I received having booked the drives a week in advance was simply not good enough. I took my money elsewhere (less money for a car with a higher list price I might add).
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Sounds like you did the right thing cruiserman, not that the Cit dealers left you with much choice - shame though that they probably don't know you spent your dollars elsewhere, so won't change their policy on how they use their demonstrators.

In contrast, a friend of ours was interested in the Pluriel, I made a phone call (on their behalf) to Bris Citroen who organised to drop a demonstrator off to the prospect (this required a second vehicle and driver for their return journey), left the car with them for the weekend and organised for it to be picked up on the following Monday. I believe there was an insurance form to sign but the vehicle was covered and if damaged the prospect was liable for the excess..... so it can be done.

Cheers
Chris
 
GreenBlood said:
Sounds like you did the right thing cruiserman, not that the Cit dealers left you with much choice - shame though that they probably don't know you spent your dollars elsewhere, so won't change their policy on how they use their demonstrators.

In contrast, a friend of ours was interested in the Pluriel, I made a phone call (on their behalf) to Bris Citroen who organised to drop a demonstrator off to the prospect (this required a second vehicle and driver for their return journey), left the car with them for the weekend and organised for it to be picked up on the following Monday. I believe there was an insurance form to sign but the vehicle was covered and if damaged the prospect was liable for the excess..... so it can be done.

Cheers
Chris
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That is how is should be done, We were given a cock and bull story about insurance, even though we had to sign a form stating that any speeding fines etc were our responsibility. We were told that if the dealer wasnt in the car we would be responsible for any damage costs as there would be no insurance cover what so ever. Not sure if it is an ACT only thing but it sure sounds crook to me. The opportunity for both myself and my wife to drive the car and discuss our thoughts on it with each other and the kids in the back was taken away. Had a lovely drive in the statesman however acres of room inside and no dealer in the front seat with us.
 
"Remotes"

Bob Cav said:
Graham : I think you may have misunderstood ,I received only one (1) remote with the 2002 model when I purchased it new in 2003 they have changed the policy now, and are supplying 2 remotes with the new 2,2 Litres car , sorry if I confused you. Bob C
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Gentlemen
Exactly what is a "remote"? You are talking in riddles. Please use plain English in your reply.
 
Roger said:
Gentlemen
Exactly what is a "remote"? You are talking in riddles. Please use plain English in your reply.
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Roger, I think if you go back through this quite long thread of messages, you will discover that there was some discussion about how many remote control "PLIP" units you receive for the central locking for the car. Hence the discussion about "remotes".
 
Bump.

Any further comments from C5 owners about their reliability? I'm more interested in the 2.2 HDi estate, but probably not looking to buy until 2Q06. So I'd like to know if I should only look at the MY05 2.2L models or also the MY04 2.0L models. But being in Perth the number of demos/2nd hand cars will be very limited, so I may be restricted to new cars.

A cross country treck might be a great way to get ahead on the novated lease kms though!

I was interested in cruiserman's comments on the fleet discounts... only $3k for the C5... would hope for more, especially with almost $2k of dealer delivery fees. Is that paying for a trip to France for the dealer principal every 3 months?
 
Lincoln its great to hear they have had no issues with it. Do you drive it much what do you think of it?
Is it a hatch or Estate?:headbang:
 
danielsydney said:
Lincoln its great to hear they have had no issues with it. Do you drive it much what do you think of it?
Is it a hatch or Estate?:headbang:
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Estate. I drove it for a few days when they first got it. It's in Brisbane, so I don't see it much. Parents are very very happy with it.

Has the occassional electrical gremlin where the mirrors won't fold in, but other than that it's been great.

Oh, but the stereo in the C5... I just gotta say... it's woeful.
 
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