GTi 180 - rough first 1min after cold start - ideas?

S

scottc01

New member
Tadpole
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
7
Location
Adelaide
Hi,

I've got a strange issue with my 206 GTi 180 - for the first 1 or 2 mins after cold start it runs very rough - idles rough, lurches, and really struggles anywhere between 1,000 - 2,000 RPM. If I get the revs up, it comes back to life - but can be a hassle (ie. pull out into traffic, this happens and the power drops!). :cry:

Once it's warm - everything's normal, and i can drive normally.

Any ideas? Or suggestions on where to take it?

The peugeot dealer here in Adelaide has no idea. (I get the feeling they're a bit useless unless it's a routine service). Software and everything is on the latest version.

One friend I was talking to suggested it could be cold start fuel mix settings in the ECU. (He said they have an oxygen sensor to control the mix, but the sensor only works once warm, so it relies on ECU maps for the first 1-2mins). Ie. the standard settings for whatever reason are too lean.

This seems to make sense to me - using octane booster helps (but doesn't properly fix the issue), and if i get the revs up it's ok ... so maybe it is just the built in fuel mix settings are too lean?

Suggested this to Peugeot but they have no idea how to set them.

Any thoughts? Sound reasonable? Anyone had this problem?

And if Peugeot can't set this, who would I need to take it to who'd have the tools / know how to set this in the ECU? (Any recommendations in Adelaide?)

My mechanical/car knowledge is a bit limited, so any help is greatly appreciated! :)

Cheers,
Scott
 
Oh - should also mention a bit of history:

I think this started around the 60k service (possibly pointing to the ECU/Software issue). Car is currently 115,000kms.

Car is generally fine, but has blown 2 coil packs in the past couple of years, and has reported "anti-pollutant fault" on occasion (although typically when the coil-packs are on their way out).

It is also a tiny bit sluggish in the 1,500 - 3,000 RPM range when warm. It's fine, but really accelerates a lot faster once it's 3,000+ .. not sure if this just what they do?
 
Hi Scott . you have pretty much described my startup experience as well. I think this is pretty common for this model, however if there is a solution I would love to hear it. I also think that the sluggishness betwwen 1500 and 3000 is normal for these as well. I am not sure if something like a remap could fix both of these issues.
At the moment i take it easy on the 180 after startup as it does run pretty rough.
 
Lifters

90% sure this sounds like a hydraulic lifter issue. Early 307 models with the similar engine were prone to doing it. First minute or so runs like crap because the lifter/lifters have bled out over night, once started in the morning they have to bleed up again and all okay. The best way is to just replace them all, too much stuffing around trying to work out which ones are faulty. Have done a few with same issues, replaced lifters, runs beautiful.
 
I have the same thing in the mornings on my '06 model Citroen C4 VTS, it's the same engine, happens less when your run 98 RON instead or 95. Mine even lurches revs going up and down. It's not a big deal is it?
 
Thanks. Glad to know i'm not the only one.

It's not a big deal is it?
Not massive, but do find it a bit of a hassle. Ie. Pull out sometimes, lose power, and end up holding up or cutting people off (or just feel a bit silly lurching around!). If can be avoided would love to get it fixed.

Maybe I just need to get the service manager to witness it, and failing that, try the replacing the lifters.
 
Sorry for being a bit thick here but what are these "lifters" ? Are they expensive to replace, should I ask at the next service?
 
scottc01 said:
Hi,

I've got a strange issue with my 206 GTi 180 - for the first 1 or 2 mins after cold start it runs very rough - idles rough, lurches, and really struggles anywhere between 1,000 - 2,000 RPM. If I get the revs up, it comes back to life - but can be a hassle (ie. pull out into traffic, this happens and the power drops!). :cry:
Once it's warm - everything's normal, and i can drive normally.
Cheers,
Scott
Click to expand...

G'day Scott,

do you let the car warm up a little before driving?

A good idea is to let all the warning lights finish their routine and turn off, and the oil level turn back to the odo.

Or,

let the car idle for about a minute or so before driving. :wink2:

Or, it could be the lifters, whatever they are. :confused:
 
Hydraulic lifters are used instead of adjustable tappets. If you still don't know heres a wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_tappet . The dealer should know about the early (t5) 307 hydraulic lifters issues and for a dealer to do it yes it'll be expensive, but basically any engine reco place should be able to do it. Its rocker covers off and cams out.
 
This fault could quite possibly be due to the inlet tracks becoming clogged with build up related to poor fuel quality.
When you take it in for its 120,000km service get the dealer to check for fault codes relating to a misfire. If faults are present the inlet manifold may have to be removed to inspect the inlet ports. If clogging present, the solution is to clean the cylinder head using an upper chamber cleaner (subaru do this as part of regular service schedule), do not remove it, and run a cleaning fluid with the fuel for a couple of tanks. A dealer should have knowledge of this fix.

Probably would be best to first let the dealer listen to and drive the vehicle when it is cold (would require leaving it overnight most likely). Crook lifters are a possiblilty.

Hope this helps. Cheers.
 
Have heard a few complaints recently about Caltex fuel - what are you using?
 
Hi Scott,

This is pretty normal for a GTi180/C4 VTS engine - especially in the colder months. Drive it gently when cold. Wait for it to warm up a bit first, or choose a bigger gap in the traffic.

As with any highly-strung 2.0 naturally aspirated motor, there is not much urge below 3,000 rpm and the 180 is no different. It's only really happy from 5,500 rpm :)
 
Hi All,

what are you using?
Been sticking with the BP Ult. 98. I also tried some of the Octane Booster / Cleaner stuff, which is supposed to help remove some of the carbon build up which can be a cause - I think it's running better once warm.. feel's a bit smoother/more responsive. But for the first 2mins, it's much the same.

do you let the car warm up a little before driving?
I wait for the dash lights to go out, but don't normally give it the full 2mins it takes to warm up. Maybe i'll experiment with this.. I'm normally in a hurry/running late in the mornings, but 2mins isn't really that long i guess! :)

Drive it gently when cold
Only issue here, is driving gently causes it lose power and stall. Only way to get the power back is to get the revs up, which again, probably isn't being kind to the cold motor.

Re: Cleaning the engine...
Last service they did give it a clean (was throwing anti-pollutnant faults at the time, so they looked into it) - whether this is the same sort of thing as pwr_gtr suggests, i'm not sure. It ran great for a little while, then same old story. So helps, but think there's something else going on too.

I'ts due for the 120k service in 4,000kms, so might get the dealer to have another look, and look into the lifters.
 
When you start it cold (and before driving off), what rpm does it idle at (with/without climate control on)?
 
gti 180 fault

What fault codes did the dealer pick up ?
did it have the auto adaptives reset,we did this on a gti 180 ,and 307 2.0 and improved both cars,removed flat spot and poor cold running under 3000rpm.the 307 could only just get into the workshop as it was so bad a flat spot.
give me a call if the problem does not improve.
Mark
Lion Automobiles
Adelaide
 
what rpm does it idle at (with/without climate control on)?
1000 when cold. hovers between 950-1050 in rough spot in the first min or so. idles at 800 when warm.

Mark - dealer didn't really find much. Took it in incase there was a sw update in case that helped - but it already was the latest ver. It had an anti-pollutant fault recently, not sure if they found anything else. Their suggestion was just de-carbon fuel add. (Which has made it run a bit smoother warm, but still same issues at cold start).

Not sure if it's had auto adaptives reset before. It's due for a service soon, might get you to have more of a look and try that when it's in next.
 
ok ok ok, so let me explain to u scott whats happening here, my gti 180 would have used to have this problem but my car now has a custom 'magic' tune. from factory the 180 runs 30% rich on a cold start, however my tune has leaned this out, thus doesnt happen with my car, as previously mentioned let the car warm up, i do every morning anyway. Magic from EMS here in brisbane is the be all and end all in pug know how and has explained this one to me just a couple of weeks ago. So u could get ur hands on a magic tune thru EMS or let ur car warm up, which id be doing no mater what. Cheers Matt
 
WRC180 -
from factory the 180 runs 30% rich on a cold start, however my tune has leaned this out
Just so I've got this right... he's set yours to run richer than the standard +30%? ie. +40% or whatever? (And idles higher?)
That makes sense to me. Suspect the mix is too poor when cold, as giving it more revs makes it kick back to life.

Can you flick me the guy's details? Bit hard to get my car up to Bris, but wouldn't mind getting his thoughts on it and seeing if he has any recommendations.

Cheers,
Scott
 
did you try the temp sender?

I had a very similar experience with my 307. Intermittently ran like a dog and was using slightly too much fuel. Took ages but tracked it down to a change in the calibration of the temp sender.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top