EV alternatives

DoubleChevron said:
How does that work? will everyone have there own micro-nuclear reactor at home?
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As I have attempted to discuss a number of times previously, not all cars will be charging in 'peak periods' and not all cars are actually charging all the time. Assuming your day to day transport does far in excess of your daily milage, you probably wait until the fuel gauge gets to a certain point then go and buy more dinosaur juice. Its the same with EVs, wait until the charge level is down to what can be put into the car overnight or by using your solar panels in a period when you are either sleeping or doing stuff at home, then charge the car at the same time.

Some of the electricity resellers are already offering $zero or close to $zero plans to EV owners to charge where there is surplus capacity in the system, which is where AMEO charges the generation companies to make electricity who can't turn their plants off and on quickly (have a look at the definition of 'base load' - it's not what you think). If the EV owner plugs in when they get home and programs the car to accept charge when the power is the cheapest - the car then asks the EVSE for power at the applicable time if it needs it.

You need to change your mindset (hard for some I know, but I'm sure you do it daily on other things).
  1. Most EV charging is done at home
  2. EVs can be programmed to start and stop charging when there is surplus electricity in the network (or the solar panels are working).
  3. Electricity suppliers are leveraging this ability to soak up surplus power.
  4. Most domestic EV chargers can be switched to charge from solar/domestic battery power only, solar/domestic battery with a boost from the grid or just off the grid.
  5. Most EVs have the capacity to do far more kms per charge that the 'average Australian' drives in a day. PHEVs have to recharge almost every time you get home.
  6. Commercial EV chargers don't have to be at petrol stations, the can be placed near suitable supply infrastructure (in my local area they are the carparks of two shopping centres and there is even one at a bus sales yard that I'm aware of).
Kenfuego said:
I have the perfect car to recycle into a new EV life. My beloved Fuego.. :love: ;)
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It would probably go like the clappers if you could do it. It would certainly be quieter and faster than the petrol motor (even if you have the turbo).

DoubleChevron said:
I'm thinking they will replace a decent percentage of the ICE vehicles. Never all of them though. That's just crazyiness to even suggest
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Correct - and I fully agree. "Green" hydrogen trains, trucks and buses is a possibility but needs a lot of work and upscaling!
 
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2353 said:
As I have attempted to discuss a number of times previously, not all cars will be charging in 'peak periods' and not all cars are actually charging all the time. Assuming your day to day transport does far in excess of your daily milage, you probably wait until the fuel gauge gets to a certain point then go and buy more dinosaur juice. Its the same with EVs, wait until the charge level is down to what can be put into the car overnight or by using your solar panels in a period when you are either sleeping or doing stuff at home, then charge the car at the same time.

Some of the electricity resellers are already offering $zero or close to $zero plans to EV owners to charge where there is surplus capacity in the system, which is where AMEO charges the generation companies who can't turn their plants off and on quickly. The EV owner plugs in when they get home and programs the car to accept charge when the power is the cheapest - the car then asks the EVSE for power at the applicable time if it needs it.

You need to change your mindset (hard for some I know, but I'm sure you do it daily on other things).
  1. Most EV charging is done at home
  2. EVs can be programmed to start and stop charging when there is surplus electricity in the network (or the solar panels are working).
  3. Electricity suppliers are leveraging this ability to soak up surplus power.
  4. Most domestic EV chargers can be switched to charge from solar/domestic battery power only, solar/domestic battery with a boost from the grid or just off the grid.
  5. Most EVs have the capacity to do far more kms per charge that the 'average Australian' drives in a day. PHEVs have to recharge almost every time you get home.
  6. Commercial EV chargers don't have to be at petrol stations, the can be placed near suitable supply infrastructure (in my local area they are the carparks of two shopping centres and there is even one at a bus sales yard that I'm aware of).

It would probably go like the clappers if you could do it. It would certainly be quieter and faster than the petrol motor (even if you have the turbo).


Correct - and I fully agree. Hydrogen trains, trucks and buses is a possibility however!
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Oh yes, that is what I've been saying the entire time. that majority of them need to stay close to home. where they slow charge. With intermittent power replacing proper power stations, this maybe become an issue in time as we won't have the overnight wasted capacity to use. Only time will tell. Yes, everything you say here is 100% right. But it will still only be a real option while there is only a small percentage of electric cars in use.

There is "buts". There is excess solar power generated to the point where it is causing issues. Are you ready for the "but" ? Its in the big residential suburb where there is endless houses with solar panels on the roofs .... and no-one home as everyone is at work. Guess where the car will also be in the majority of cases :unsure: If you work from home and live in one of these areas, it should work out really well for you (or you car lives at home as you don't use it to commute to work, in this rare case it could even be used as a house battery).

There is positives for sure, but IMO there is a vast number of tremendous negatives for the majority of people, this is why most don't want them.
 
2353 said:
You reckon -> ev-market-share-grew-in-march-but-thats-not-what-australias-car-lobby-wants-you-to-know
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Time will tell, but I don't believe anything EV that is being screamed at us. I'm happy to be proven wrong over the next few years. I somehow doubt it given car manufactures are rolling back electric car plans and investment as fast as there nutty governments will let them.

Lets see how growth works out over the next 5 years, and what sort of percentage of new cars sold is electric. I really don't care either way, so long as we have a way of safely disposing of these batteries in 5->10 years time :)
 
This is promising... And Australian developed.
Just need some kind of solid hydrogen fuel source readily available...
newatlas.com

Water-injected 2.0-liter turbo-four hydrogen engine spits out 410 hp

Austrian mobility technology company AVL had a pretty good day for itself earlier this month, when it confirmed simulations that showed its prototype 2.0-liter turbo hydrogen race engine developing over 200 hp-per-liter. AVL uses a water-injection system alongside its turbocharger to moderate…
newatlas.com newatlas.com
 
lowpugV2 said:
This is promising... And Australian developed.
Just need some kind of solid hydrogen fuel source readily available...
newatlas.com

Water-injected 2.0-liter turbo-four hydrogen engine spits out 410 hp

Austrian mobility technology company AVL had a pretty good day for itself earlier this month, when it confirmed simulations that showed its prototype 2.0-liter turbo hydrogen race engine developing over 200 hp-per-liter. AVL uses a water-injection system alongside its turbocharger to moderate…
newatlas.com newatlas.com
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Interesting, because I like the idea of very low emission I.C.E. as a possible future.

But please note "No Kangaroos in Austria" - tourism slogan in Austria. :)
 
i still don't get why money is being invested in hydrogen engines. the fuel needs to be safely stored and transported .... and cleanly generated before its worth spending a cent on 🤔
 
Fordman said:
Interesting, because I like the idea of very low emission I.C.E. as a possible future.

But please note "No Kangaroos in Austria" - tourism slogan in Austria. :)
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OMG, I totally read that as Australian.... Blindly optimistic that we still have any kind of motor industry here!
 
I like sound of a this ICE fuel.🤔


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Fireworks in Scotland.🙄
Firefighters have been there for 32 hours and counting.
The company is call Fenix Battery Recycling, any guesses on what their specialty is?

 
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I found a Scottish Herald article.
Look how close the factory is to the housing estate.😳
I attached part of the blurb that talks about several other sites that have burnt down, one three times.🤦‍♂️
What are they recycling these batteries into, cancer?

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So you're saying there's never been oil rig fires or any other industrial fires don't occur on regular basis?
 
lowpugV2 said:
So you're saying there's never been oil rig fires or any other industrial fires don't occur on regular basis?
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I've never seen an oil rig surrounded by houses, have you?
An oil rig doesn't claim it's saving the same planet, a fire there is just cutting out the middle man.
A fire at a lithium battery recycling plant is doing the exact opposite of their mission statement.
 
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lowpugV2 said:
So you're saying there's never been oil rig fires or any other industrial fires don't occur on regular basis?
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Industrial fires happen all the time - fires at rubber tyre recyclers/storage produce fumes that are noxious and seem to be allowed close to residential areas. The fault here is probably the town planning scheme or it's implementation/enforcement.
 
Greenpeace said:
I've never seen an oil rig surrounded by houses, have you?
An oil rig doesn't claim it's saving the same planet, a fire there is just cutting out the middle man.
A fire at a lithium battery recycling plant is doing the exact opposite of their mission statement.
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I agree, rigs or oils fields are in far away places. But the total impact still has global effect.

However, there is a number of industrial fires that happen each year. Often in quite densely populated areas. Unfortunately I seems recycling centres are a common theme. Remember the plastics recycling warehouse that went up?

I think there's some regulations that need to be developed and enforced very quickly.

Either way, it's not just li-po recycling that and batteries that cause fires and the problem with quoting out of context or cherry picking facts is that it leads to unbalanced views. Which in all fairness is also a major issue for the EV and battery industry.
 
All of the above it right. However I don't buy the comparisons. Yes oil can burn, there is specialist teams onsite to cater for this. And we never allow them near housing.

lithium batteries, here we have a fire that can't be put out. If you submerge the entire mess in the sea/water.... it will continue to burn underwater as it creates its own oxygen. It burns hot enough to melt concrete and take out entire building structures. Its the fact, you cannot stop the fires once they start that make them truly frightening IMO :blackeye: How is it cherry picking anythign, if he says "battery recycling plants can burn" ... .then supplies the evidence they burn. That's like saying "oil rigs can burn" .... and supplying evidence of them burning. The difference is you don't get pro "oil" people denying facts.... or then saying ... but, but .... look over there, trees burn too :rolleyes:

we should not have any sort of lithium battery storage near suburbia. We of course have the issue of how we get the lithium batteries to remote places for storage/"recycling" though.
 
All of that is fair. I guess my main issue is unbalanced viewpoints. I'm an optimist that believes once the facts are laid out people will make the right choice. I'm always disappointed though.
DoubleChevron said:
Yes oil can burn, there is specialist teams onsite to cater for this
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How about I cherry pick the Kuwait oil fires that burned for nearly 12 months? I neatly omit the fact that is was during a military conflict...

I do agree though, industry dealing with toxic or dangerous anything near population centres has to be extremely stringent in its process and safety protocols to minimise risk.

Again, being the optimist I hope we'll see a future where EVs use safer chemistry for their batteries and recycling is more common and regulated.
 
lowpugV2 said:
All of that is fair. I guess my main issue is unbalanced viewpoints. I'm an optimist that believes once the facts are laid out people will make the right choice. I'm always disappointed though.

How about I cherry pick the Kuwait oil fires that burned for nearly 12 months? I neatly omit the fact that is was during a military conflict...

I do agree though, industry dealing with toxic or dangerous anything near population centres has to be extremely stringent in its process and safety protocols to minimise risk.

Again, being the optimist I hope we'll see a future where EVs use safer chemistry for their batteries and recycling is more common and regulated.
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I'm thinking they are peak level for the current technology right now. The batteries aren't there yet really. None of the first world countries have the power infrastructure for more cars. Most lower cost housing has no off street parking (so no simple way of charging)..... I could go on all day, but won't bother. We have all heard it before.

I'm not for or against electric cars .... we just aren't there yet for them to exist in any large percentage of the car fleet from what I can see.... But here is the good bit .... If you want one ... Go For It :dance: :dance: if it can work for you, and you can afford to run one ... have fun ... go get your new toy :)
 
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