DS3 forged engine build - help

[Timbo87]

Hi

I’m chasing an engine builder/tuner for my Citroen DS3 project. If anyone has any suggestions for a shop in or around Brisbane that could help me out, and that isn’t afraid of a project which is a little different, would be awesome.

Unfortunately there is not a lot of love for these cars in the local tuning scene here in Aus, so finding a performance shop to give me a hand on my project has been difficult. Most people have no clue what a Citroen DS3 is. They all say it’s pretty and to buy a faster car…

So far I’ve been turned away from 7 shops. I know the DS3 shares the same N14 EP6 engine as the mini, however I have a 2015 165THP model running the 5GZ euro6 variant and Citroen/Peugeot fixed a lot of issues with timing issues etc. when they re released… but I digress.

Any way, I’ve been sourcing parts for a while now through Pug1Off in the Uk, a Citroen/Peugeot tuner who has everything and anything for these cars as they are quite popular over there. I’m almost ready to start the build. So far I have:

- Wossner forged pistons and PEC rods
- Scorpion downpipe
- Walkinshaw 2.5in cat back exhaust (limited product run back in 2016)
- Quaife LSD
- Pug1off large front Intercooler
- Oil cooler
- Custom K04 turbo by Turbo Technics
- Custom intake piping for higher flow
- Helix Motorsport organic heavy duty clutch and lightened flywheel
- short shifter
- GFB diverter valve
- ARP head bolts, rod bolts
- All bearings, gaskets etc.

Any help to find an engine builder/tuner would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Tim

 

[Dave]

Sorry don’t have a suggestion, but awesome build! Keep us posted

what are you doing for ECU? Etuners?

 

[dimistyle]

Try these guys heard some great things on the BMW racing side.

Gallery

www.brisbanemotorworks.com

Also ask these guys as obvious have the skills.

Gallery - Eurotune

Eurotune Gallery Customer Cars Click below to view our gallery:

www.eurotune.com.au

Remember a phone call is better than a email so you can be upfront with your expectation.

Please let us all know how the project goes

 

[Timbo87]

Sorry don’t have a suggestion, but awesome build! Keep us posted

what are you doing for ECU? Etuners?

Thanks Dave, will keep everyone posted for sure on the build. ECU-wise I know it will need a complete custom tune, haven’t approached Etuners though have read about them and will put them on the list to approach

 

[Timbo87]

Try these guys heard some great things on the BMW racing side.

http://[URL]https://www.brisbanemotorworks.com/gallery/

[/URL]

Also ask these guys as obvious have the skills.

http://[URL]http://www.eurotune.com.au/gallery/

[/URL]

Remember a phone call is better than a email so you can be upfront with your expectation.

Please let us all know how the project goes

Hi Dimistyle,

Thanks for the links I’ll check them out and will keep the updates for the build coming.

 

[Dave]

etuners used to be the only real option due to direct injection. Recently however in some of the new Yaris GR tuning episodes I’ve notice MoTec have come out with direct injection capability in their aftermarket ECU.

 

[seasink]

Might have been easier to import a DS3 Racing with all the work already done.

There are quite a few spec documents to be found online for the versions of this car.

 

[Timbo87]

etuners used to be the only real option due to direct injection. Recently however in some of the new Yaris GR tuning episodes I’ve notice MoTec have come out with direct injection capability in their
The tuners in the UK have said the difficult thing to do with the stock MED17.4.4 ecu is to lift the torque parameters. But once you get in it’s fine. It’ll be finding someone who knows how to do that haha. Otherwise it’ll be MoTec. It’s definitely be on my list, especially if tuning the DS3 ecu becomes too hard so thanks for the nice bit of info Dave

etuners used to be the only real option due to direct injection. Recently however in some of the new Yaris GR tuning episodes I’ve notice MoTec have come out with direct injection capability in their aftermarket ECU.

The tuners in the UK have said the difficult thing to do with the stock MED17.4.4 ecu is to lift the torque parameters. It’ll be finding someone who knows how to do that haha. Otherwise it’ll be MoTec. It’s definitely be on my list now as a back up, especially if tuning the DS3 ecu becomes too hard so thanks for that nice bit of info Dave

 

[Dave]

Excited to see it progress. When I had a THP155 I got as far as installing the GFB diverter which was fun, but sold the car to get a larger family vehicle before I could progress to the eTuners flash.

Dave

 

[lowpugV2]

Would you follow whatever the factory did to the pug GTi 270 engine? That's an evolution of the same engine right?

 

[X8R]

Hi Tim

I am pretty familiar with DS3 and the prince engine. I have a 2011 model myself.
Etuners could do remaps over OBD but triple check your engine code and ECU model as there are significant variances between models. Some are more difficult to tune that others. You can also do a custom tune or standalone ECU. I know a few shops in Melbourne but it is not helpful for you. I assume you have the MED17.4.4 EP6-CDTM with variable valve lift?
I agree this engine is flawed by design, timing issues, carbon buildup, valve seals, erratic behaviour it's on the everyday menu. Keept it well maintained and it will fight back less.

Watch out with forged pistons. Yes, they are more resistant but their expansion is quite dissimilar to cast aluminium and cast iron. You will have a decent amount of blow-by and compression loss when the engine is cold.

K04 turbos are quite big for this engine. They may not be very responsive but you'll have a good top end. It will be laggy for around town driving.

Looking forward to hear your progress!

Oscar

 

[Timbo87]

Would you follow whatever the factory did to the pug GTi 270 engine? That's an evolution of the same engine right?

Hi lowpugV2,

I’m following what the factory did, and then some. The GTI 270 came out standard with forged internals

 

[Timbo87]

Hi Tim

I am pretty familiar with DS3 and the prince engine. I have a 2011 model myself.
Etuners could do remaps over OBD but triple check your engine code and ECU model as there are significant variances between models. Some are more difficult to tune that others. You can also do a custom tune or standalone ECU. I know a few shops in Melbourne but it is not helpful for you. I assume you have the MED17.4.4 EP6-CDTM with variable valve lift?
I agree this engine is flawed by design, timing issues, carbon buildup, valve seals, erratic behaviour it's on the everyday menu. Keept it well maintained and it will fight back less.

Watch out with forged pistons. Yes, they are more resistant but their expansion is quite dissimilar to cast aluminium and cast iron. You will have a decent amount of blow-by and compression loss when the engine is cold.

K04 turbos are quite big for this engine. They may not be very responsive but you'll have a good top end. It will be laggy for around town driving.

Looking forward to hear your progress!

Oscar

Hey Oscar,

Thanks for the msg - the engine code is EP6 FDT (euro 6) version. The ecu is Med17.4.4. I have had the valves walnut blasted which was great. You don’t realise how this effects the engine until it’s back to normal. My engine has only done 65000 km.

The turbo is bespoke and was designed specifically for this engine and to fit the factory manifold. I actually received my first wave of parts yesterday arvo. I’ll attach a pic. More are on there way but it’ll probably be another couple of months before they get here due to Covid.

 

[dimistyle]

Timbo any update on the rebuild who did you end by using for the build?

 

[Timbo87]

Timbo any update on the rebuild who did you end by using for the build?

Hey Dimi,

I'm still looking for someone to help me with the build! I can't even get an estimate which is really disappointing.

However, I'm no quitter haha. Someone will take it on i'm sure. Below is a list of workshops and performance garages which I have tried. Those that are interested say they will get back to me with an estimate and don't. This is after a lot of follow up, too - both calls and emails.

No Response:

- 999 Automotive
- JW Racing
- Hi-Toque Performance

Not interested:

- Prestige & Performance
- ASG Motorsport
- French Car Care
- Power Torque Engines
- MRPS Automotive

Interested, waiting for estimate, followed up, gone quiet:

- Simply Tuning
- Spectune
- Autoworks

Interested, waiting for estimate:

- Btuned Automotive
- Peugeotech

The last lot of parts for the build will arrive in the next 2-3 weeks. I am hoping the build will start in November. All I can do is keep following up I guess. I've found a couple of other places to contact - they are based on the Gold Coast. But my search for a performance shop is getting wider and wider. Met a guy the other day out at QLD raceway who's brother builds and tunes Fiat 500 Abarth's in Sydney. He had to put his car on a trailer and send it down to get the work done. I hope it doesn't have to come to that with my build.

Cheers, Tim

 

[Timbo87]

Update!

The final lot of parts has arrived from the UK. Included is a much needed slotted and cross drilled brake upgrade from Tarox and Ferodo, a Mocal oil cooler set up, the Wossner forged pistons and PEC rods (which are beautiful), all gaskets and bearings, new factory timing chain kit with revised tensioner, upgraded engine mounts from Vibra Technics, and a full head studs and nuts kit from ARP. These now complete the full kit.

In even bigger news... I'm excited to share that the Croissant is now booked in for the rebuild and custom tune with Btuned up in North Lakes QLD. They will be working directly with Pug1off in the UK (who I sourced all parts from), and will be turning this guy into a monster. Build day is March 1. Everything will be happening in house, this includes the building of the EP6 engine and the custom tune, which is exactly what I wanted. No third parties. Just one place for it all to happen.

In the meantime, I will be sourcing some much needed coilovers from BC Racing, and trying to get to as many local car meets as I can because from March, I will be without my little DS3 for a bit ... which is a great problem to have.

 

[dimistyle]

I'll be down to have looksy if they're open to visitors.

I can shown them melted plastic parts of an overheated EP6

The tuning should be fun!!

 

[Timbo87]

I'll be down to have looksy if they're open to visitors.

I can shown them melted plastic parts of an overheated EP6

The tuning should be fun!!

Thanks Dimi - yeah I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous! And cool, by all means pop down and take a look. I will be trying to get as much content for my Instagram acc as possible, on days I can take leave from work haha. I've never done this before and it's been a big goal for a long time so I want to document the process as much as possible.

We'll be shooting for 300hp and around 430 nm of torque as a general guide. Pug1off build and tune these to that figure on 98RON. There fuel is a little better than ours, but fingers crossed we get close mate.

 

[dimistyle]

300hp now we're talking... out of a 1.6T, when I was with the VW/Audi guys we had that hp from the 1.8T engines in 2WD Passat's and Golf's, great for track days and had owners of classic RS2 nervous on 1/4ml drags......spent way too much $$$ on engines back then.

The Tarox discs should dissipate the heat but you may need to get some additional venting to them though additional bumper inlets.

I'd like to see how Btuned install the catch cans as I want to add these to both our 308, the front in particular to save the turbo from all the blow by....

Great project

 

[dimistyle]

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wow a lot of work went into this standard rebuild due to other mechanics installing the chain incorrectly, seems a fare price