Clio sport 182 Gordini special

good on you Covert I couldn't have said it better myself.

All this crap about the 17G not deserving the G badge, what a load of crap, written by people who don't appreciate the driving spirit a Gordini (or Sport Clio for that matter) can give over the standard model. Of course the 17G deserves the G badge, a person would be an idiot to argue that and I've said all along that a Clio Gordini would be the way of the future.

We must look at the past in order to see the future and to allow the Gordini name to disappear would mean that all his work has amounted to nothing. It would be a tragity if our childrens only memory of him was a badge on the back of a vintage car.

Any way, that's my say, Go Renault-Go Gordini.

David.
 
Renault do not need to look to the past to ressurect a failing future in the same way that the failing Fiat concern clutch at past straws by resurrecting the Arbath version.

Renault have no need to resurrect the past, as they are in a very successful position from their present Renault sport branding. Gordini was a person as well as an engineer who deserves to be respected in the models he had an association with, ie the Dauphine, R8 and R12. In the same way the Toyota Lexcen would likely be an insult to that great innovative designer, what a way to be remembered, a badge on a knock off Commodore. Neither is Gordini a name like Monaro, a brand that is associated with a model not a person.


Not perpetuating the Gordini branding does not mean it is to be forgotten. Is a Tucker Torpedo or Cord forgotten and worthless because they are no longer in production? Using appropriate promotion of the past competition exploits of Renault, Amedee Gordini, and others who provided a contribution to the sporting past of Renault need not be forgotten. The spirit of Gordini deserves to be more than a coat of faux 418 blue paint and a couple of stripes of white tape with no other mechanical mods. Again Gordini was a mechanical engineer, not a fashion designer like Carla Zampatti.

Some of the previous correspondents seem to think a car needs to be a Gordini to be considered a Sporting Renault, why?

Perhaps Renault reflected the contribution of Amedee Gordini when the "Gordini" designation on the 17G and the UK 5G was in lower case as opposed to upper case on the previous Gordini models.
 
David Cavanagh said:
good on you Covert I couldn't have said it better myself.

All this crap about the 17G not deserving the G badge, what a load of crap, written by people who don't appreciate the driving spirit a Gordini (or Sport Clio for that matter) can give over the standard model. Of course the 17G deserves the G badge, a person would be an idiot to argue that and I've said all along that a Clio Gordini would be the way of the future.

We must look at the past in order to see the future and to allow the Gordini name to disappear would mean that all his work has amounted to nothing. It would be a tragity if our childrens only memory of him was a badge on the back of a vintage car.

Any way, that's my say, Go Renault-Go Gordini.

David.
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Now hang on just one minute here.

Renault released a model of the R17 with Fuel Injection, 4 wheel disc brakes, a 5 speed close ratio box and a tricky delay windscreen wiper thingy and call it a R17TS. They make 500 of them. Then they decide to change the name to R17 Gordini, add air horns and remove the oil cooler.

This was a marketing badge job through and through. Renault had already engineered the top of the range model and gave it a suitable badge - "TS"

The name change to Gordini at that later stage of manufacture can surely only be seen as an attempt to increase sales (one which didn't seem to work out as it was later dropped). It doesn't really reflect the Gordini spirit (as was previously pointed out, Gordini was a mechanical engineer - and Renault REMOVED the oil cooler from the Gordini model!)

This argument is not intended to negate the value of a R17 Gordini. In my mind an R17TS or a R17 Gordini are both quite equal. But lets not think that slamming a "G" badge on any Renault correctly captures true Gordini magic (ie. R8G versus standard 8)
 
Just a quickie.

How do you know, Simon, that there is 15 month old stock of RCS in AUS?

I would have thought that they would be selling really well.

Do we know how the Megane is going?
 
LukeCass said:
Just a quickie.

How do you know, Simon, that there is 15 month old stock of RCS in AUS?

I would have thought that they would be selling really well.

Do we know how the Megane is going?
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Go and visit your Renault dealer and check the build date in the RHS door pillar, tell me what you see.
 
OK - I believe you. I wasn't having a go, just curious as to where you got your info.
 
So I agree with dave C, the Gordini name should live on and prosper in the spirit of the name. Cars that are class leaders and that are meant to be driven and enjoyed.

Example like chanel http://chanel.com/ where the creator has died, yet the brand and it's following is larger than ever.

We are talking about a manufactured product, a brand that can be used and built on to enhance the product. If done correctly it works extremely well. But of course it can also not work if not done properly, ie 17G could have maybe been handled better.

But it is narrow minded to totally dismiss the idea because of the R17G example as I think its worth a go, the package is there,RS Clio 182, the past history is there, Renault owns the name, and I think drivers would respond well to it, that is non renault owners, most of the renault enthusiasts, I know french G owners would love it, and the colonies of die hard one eyed Gordini zealots who huddle up against their old "true Gs" can be left there stewing and mumbling away in a corner while new RS 182 Gordini owners enjoy their cars and driving celebrating their new cars with a great past.

On the case of the old RS Clio at the Melbourne Motor Show, I feel it maybe a old promotional hack that is doing the circuit, poor old car doing the motor shows and promotional days but of course it would be good to track these cars to see if they do, do the rounds, and that in fact the other cars in the showrooms are new stock.

So maybe on one level track the motorshow cars and on another track the showroom stock that is going through the door.........
 
Europa said:
Renault released a model of the R17 with Fuel Injection, 4 wheel disc brakes, a 5 speed close ratio box and a tricky delay windscreen wiper thingy and call it a R17TS. They make 500 of them. Then they decide to change the name to R17 Gordini, add air horns and remove the oil cooler.

It doesn't really reflect the Gordini spirit (as was previously pointed out, Gordini was a mechanical engineer - and Renault REMOVED the oil cooler from the Gordini model!)
I have heard that said about the oil cooler before (maybe by you) but mine has one. And has had it from new. Also it doesn't have air horns, but dual electric ones. Mine is definately a G not a TS (not that it matters). I would be just as happy if it had TS on the back. My point is that it is a good car and doesn't deserve to be put down because of its badge (not that you were). :2cents:

Time to get off my soapbox! :cheers:
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R17G said:
My point is that it is a good car and doesn't deserve to be put down because of its badge (not that you were)
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Mate, I don't know anyone in this conversation thread that suggested your car was somehow substandard because of the badge! Not sure where that impression comes from?
 
I think your wrong Simon and we could argue forever. I think with your arguement about Gordini being a person and an engineer goes for Loius Renault as well. Why should they continue using the name Renault, the current models have nothing at all to do with the great inventor/inovatore Loius Renault, when he died they could have changed the name and started again, lets face it, Paris was bombed out, Loius Renault was tried as a collaborator, his name was dirt but they rebuilt a car company on his past acheivments into one of the largest in the world, they looked at the past to see the future.

Gordini died a hero, a genius, the person who put Renault in the competition books and a fitting tribute would be to name a car after him. If Gordini was alive today and they gave him a standard Clio 1.6 to work on he would have created the Clio Sport, 2 litre 16V and 172hp and he would have painted it blue and given it white strips. And Jean Redele would have probably put a mid mounted V6 in it. The reason Renault Sport exists today is because if Gordini (and Jean Redele).

As for the 17. I really am confused, the 12G is considered a Gordini am I right?
The 17G uses the same 12G running gear, motor, 5 speed close ratio box, suspension and 4 wheel discs all came from a car that was considered a real Gordini, the last of the 12G's in 1974 even had the same fuel injection system and yet you guys claim the 17 isn't a real Gordini??? A guy from Renault once told me (25 years ago) that the name change from TS to Gordini was firstly for maketing reason and secondly because it uses all Gordini running gear and should never have been called a TS in the first place.
I love my 17G, it's so much better than my 17TL and it's great fun to drive, in some ways I prefere it to the 12G, OK, neither of them come close to an 8G, I would never claim they do, the 8G is and will always be the ultimate Gordini and no one will argue that but I think a little credit where credits due would be good.
The 17G/TS is still a very competant performance car by todays standards, a magazine I have give 0-100 in 9.5 seconds, someone go through modern figures and tell me how many 1.6 litre cars can do that. Not many I bet.

David.
 
David Cavanagh said:
As for the 17. I really am confused, the 12G is considered a Gordini am I right?
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Yes, Amadee was involved in some way. We have evidence on film "Jour G"

David Cavanagh said:
The 17G uses the same 12G running gear, motor, 5 speed close ratio box, suspension and 4 wheel discs all came from a car that was considered a real Gordini, the last of the 12G's in 1974 even had the same fuel injection system and yet you guys claim the 17 isn't a real Gordini???
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Yes, as Amadee had nothing to do with that car, as far as we know.

David Cavanagh said:
A guy from Renault once told me (25 years ago) that the name change from TS to Gordini was firstly for maketing reason and secondly because it uses all Gordini running gear and should never have been called a TS in the first place.
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I'm glad to see my marketing theory actually bears up to the available evidence. I wonder if initially the 17 got the TS badge because the 12G was meant to be "The Gordini"

David Cavanagh said:
I love my 17G, it's so much better than my 17TL and it's great fun to drive, in some ways I prefere it to the 12G, OK, neither of them come close to an 8G, I would never claim they do, the 8G is and will always be the ultimate Gordini and no one will argue that but I think a little credit where credits due would be good.
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I'd have to agree regarding the 8G. I'm sure Renault would love to have repeated the success of the 8G when releasing the 12G, but for a variety of reasons the magic just wasn't there. Not that the 12G is a bad car per se!

David Cavanagh said:
The 17G/TS is still a very competant performance car by todays standards, a magazine I have give 0-100 in 9.5 seconds, someone go through modern figures and tell me how many 1.6 litre cars can do that. Not many I bet.
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A 1.6l Clio can do it in 9.6 seconds, so I think maybe more modern cars are about equal now.
 
Europa said:
Yes, Amadee was involved in some way. We have evidence on film "Jour G"
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Hmm. Probably wheeled Amedee out and said 'hey what do you think?' And 'Can we get some publicity shots?' Wasn't he in his 70's? (Not to deride 12G's, I would love one) :D


Europa said:
A 1.6l Clio can do it in 9.6 seconds, so I think maybe more modern cars are about equal now
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From Wheels:

Mini Cooper 1.6L 85kw and 10.8s

BMW 318ti 2.0L 105kw and 10.2s

Citroen Xsara VTR Coupe 1.6L 82kw and 11.5s

Daewoo Kalos 1.5L 62kw and 13.4s

Ford Focus LX 1.8L 85kw and 10.9s

Asta City 1.8L 90kw and 9.5s

Honda Civic 1.7L 88kw and 9.5s

Renault Clio Privilege 1.6L 79kw and10.4s


So 1.6L 90kw and 9.5s for a car that is 30years old is not too bad. :whistle: ;)
 
Here is another article on the Renault Sport 182 Gordini , this is most likely a re do of the original one found. It will be interesting to see how this news spreads and where it ends up.......

http://www.carpages.co.uk/renault/r..._cars_08_03_04.asp?switched=on&echo=351594741

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This year marks the 40th anniversary of the debut of the Renault 8 Gordini racing and road car which was the high performance equivalent of today’s Renaultsport cars - built to provide the ultimate in performance and driving pleasure. To pay homage to these remarkable cars, which were distinguished by their bright Racing Blue paintwork and twin white stripes over the top of the car, these two special options are now available on the new Clio Renaultsport 182.

Hailed by the Press as the ultimate hot hatch and winner of many a group test when driving pleasure is what counts, the Clio Renaultsport 182 is a remarkable car and as such a worthy distant successor to the Gordinis of the ‘60s and 70s. The distinctive Racing Blue paintwork is available as a no cost option and only with this colour is the option of twin Competition Stripes over the bonnet, roof and tailgate for £295 to give that Gordini look in 2004.

A Tour de Course winner on its first outing

The Renault 8 Gordini provided dramatic performance in its day, sufficient in fact to win the Tour de Course rally on its first outing. Whilst the standard Renault 8 had a 956cc or 1108cc engine pushing out 48hp the Gordini was powered by a 1255cc engine with nearly twice the power at 95hp. Consequently top speed went up from 81mph to 106mph whilst the standing 0-62mph time nearly halved from 22.3 seconds to only 12.3 seconds

Now that’s Va Va Voom

The new Clio Renaultsport 182 clearly upholds the tradition of its stablemate from 40 years earlier. With a 2-litre engine now with an extra 10hp over the 172, the Clio 182 has more than double the power of the 1.2 16V 75hp version which powers a lot of regular Clios. Performance is equally scorching and the Gordini wouldn’t see which way the Clio went. In the Va Va Voom stakes the Renaultsport shows the Gordini the way home with a top speed of 139 mph and 0-62mph acceleration in only 7.1 seconds. That’s 40 years worth of technical improvement for you – and this from a cleaner more economical engine remember.

The Clio Renaultsport 182 is available to order now from £14,613 on the road.

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Some people seem to be missing my point. A Gordini version of a Renault is no Holden Gemini ZZ/Z or Australian version of the Escort RS 2000, both those cars were basically tarted up versions of the stock Gemini TG and Escort 2 litre L/GL 2 door, with the respective models sharing identical mechanicals. A Gordini Renault was a lot more than blue paint and white stripes, basically engine/suspension/gearbox/brake/body modifications.

The 17G was merely a re-badged 17TS, and also contrary to what people seem to think, I have no problem with either a 17TS or a G, just that the Gordini version was nothing more than the previous TS model, basically just tinted glass, tombstone seats and evaporative emission control on the AUS versions, and virtually no differences on the Euro versions. I am very interested to finally hear of one 17G with an original oil cooler. It would be interesting to see how that car fits in with the other ones I know of which don't have coolers.

David Cavanagh said:
As for the 17. I really am confused, the 12G is considered a Gordini am I right?
The 17G uses the same 12G running gear, motor, 5 speed close ratio box, suspension and 4 wheel discs all came from a car that was considered a real Gordini, the last of the 12G's in 1974 even had the same fuel injection system and yet you guys claim the 17 isn't a real Gordini???
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A car with less power than its supposed predecessor could hardly be considered an improvement, let alone inheritor to the Gordini performance mantel.

The 17TS/G is basically a detuned 12G sourced motor. The 12G puts out 125bhp @ 6250rpm, the 17TS/G 108bhp @ 6000rpm. The source for both of these figures is Renault documentation. This deficit in power further goes to illustrate the difference between a Gordini Renault and a "normal" TS Renault, and further demonstrates the point that the Clio 182 Gordini cannot seriously be considered a True Gordini, whether or not it was sanctioned by Amedee himself (via a Psychic), or Seth Gordini. "Seth" being a fictional name to illustrate that an Amedee Gordini decendent may have engineered the new Clio 182 Gordini. However if "Seth" was a fashion guru rather than a mechanical engineer, I could not have an argument with the new Clio Gordini :)

If Renault wish to resurrect, or use, the Gordini name for a special version, over and above the current Renaultsport versions, surely there should be some performance boost rather than just the most expensive (at around $90 per linear metre) white stripes in the business. The Gordini name when previously used in the context of Renault, has meant a power boost (historically 40 to over 100% increase) over and above the standard models. I'm taking the standard model in this case to be the Renault Clio Renaultsport 182, as this is the model that the present "Gordini" version is being derived from.

Use of the Gordini name should be an opportunity for Renault to homologate factory performance modifications over and above the standard models, to respect that Gordini was not only a performance engineer, but also recognise his contribution to Formula 1 racing in the 1950's. That sort of heritage is worth much more than blue paint and stripes!



Also I'm interested in that final injection version of the 12G, was that for markets outside France, similar to the Alpine A310 1605cc injection version which was only sold in markets outside France?



David Cavanagh said:
A guy from Renault once told me (25 years ago) that the name change from TS to Gordini was firstly for maketing reason and secondly because it uses all Gordini running gear and should never have been called a TS in the first place.
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I wonder if this was the same guy that once told me that there were 100 Renault 8G's assembled in AUS, 50 blue ones and 50 yellow ones. The reality was much less.
 
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R17G said:
Hmm. Probably wheeled Amedee out and said 'hey what do you think?' And 'Can we get some publicity shots?' Wasn't he in his 70's? (Not to deride 12G's, I would love one) :D
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This may be true, but at least he wasn't dead.

R17G said:
From Wheels:

Mini Cooper 1.6L 85kw and 10.8s

BMW 318ti 2.0L 105kw and 10.2s

Citroen Xsara VTR Coupe 1.6L 82kw and 11.5s

Daewoo Kalos 1.5L 62kw and 13.4s

Ford Focus LX 1.8L 85kw and 10.9s

Asta City 1.8L 90kw and 9.5s

Honda Civic 1.7L 88kw and 9.5s

Renault Clio Privilege 1.6L 79kw and10.4s


So 1.6L 90kw and 9.5s for a car that is 30years old is not too bad. :whistle: ;)
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Nice figures, interesting to note that Wheels time for the Clio is nearly 1 second away from Renaults official figures.

Mind you, we are comparing "bread & butter" cars with what was Renaults top performing model at the time. In fact, price adjusted, you could compare it with something like a V6 Clio today.

As the 12G was more powerful (pre-injection model), I wonder what its 0-100 time is...
 
Europa said:
This may be true, but at least he wasn't dead.


Nice figures, interesting to note that Wheels time for the Clio is nearly 1 second away from Renaults official figures.

Mind you, we are comparing "bread & butter" cars with what was Renaults top performing model at the time. In fact, price adjusted, you could compare it with something like a V6 Clio today.

As the 12G was more powerful (pre-injection model), I wonder what its 0-100 time is...
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I agree with Europa, you have the Bread and Butter Renaults and then you have the performance Renaults. In the past Gordini's and Alpine's were part of the performance stable, able to inject passion, excitement and life into drivers, there was a distinction over the daily drivers.

I think all this talk go's to the fact that quite a few people here would like to see Renault use those classic names from the past and be used on current Renault Sport models and maybe bring back some passion, something that may bring back a history, a lineage of performance brands that seems to have been lost in the Renault marque recently. People remember the good old days and would like to bring that back for older owners and educate the new ones who can see, learn and experience the passion of a Gordini, new or old.

Some more hard core Gordini owners who are less flexible in their vision like to say we should now be comparing the gordini name above the Renault Sport Brand, In a desperate attempt to get the gordini name from continuing, I mean they seem to think that anything not touched by the man himself is un worthy of the "Gordini" name. I feel sad for their limited views and wonder if this is just the thoughts and lack of vision that is driving renault sporting history into the ground in not celebrating past histories, being able to build and use those famous brands to enforce a performance culture and push them into the future.

I find it funny that owners like simon are willing to watch the death of a great brand with the death of it's creator, the fact that they look at him and tell us everyone will remember the "Gordini" name when even he dies, who will carry on the names history and cars, I am affraid it will end up as a foot note in the back pages of some book in 80 years time no matter what he says.

Unless Renault continue to promote the name to future RS models for example and maybe inspire a new generation of drivers like they did at "Jour Gordini day?", I would love to see renault establish the name again and run a new day with 182 Gordini's on the track just as the old Gordini's were used as well.

rant rant rant I sound like but I just feel that the current Renault Sport models " Clio, Megane" are worthy of the Gordini name and are well above the "bread & butter" cars as Europa but it.

Just like if the current "Wind" concept car gets a Renault Sport make over and maybe carries a "Alpine" badge under the RS Brand, I would be interested to see that too.

I just hope for abit more forward thinking and a bit less of this old world crap from some G owners bathing in their past glories of exclusive ownership of a "gordini" where they have one, no one else does, have to protect their investment by downing anything new that maybe coming along and bitching over weather it's a true one, that it's not original because of some part's there or not, or from a reshelling process because of old age.

Some of you just have to get over it all, fly to France, go to a Gordini day and see what REAL modern day french gordini owners are doing in the motherland of the G, you'd all have a heart attack with shock.

Get over it all and move on.......... :)
 
I would like to know if as in simon's eye's RS cars are not up to the task of holding the Gordini name, what would be??

He says that he is using the Renault Sport cars as the standard sporting base Renault and that a Gordini should be above those, I disagree with that idea as it's not being realistic.

Simon what would the RS Renault 182 have to have to be to be called a "Gordini" in your eyes?

I can imagine if Gordini's had being kept being produced and developed that today we would have a very different view of them. They would have all the modern performance attribute of a modern cars.

Maybe our ideas would be different and more flexible these days. imagine the line up

Renault Dauphine Gordini
Renault 8 Gordini
Renault 12 Gordini
Renault 17 Gordini
Renault 11 Gordini turbo
Renault 5 Gordini GT turbo
Renault Clio Gordini 16V
Renault Megane Gordini Coupe
Renault 172 Gordini
Renault 182 Gordini

for arguments sake
:dance:
 
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