Cleaning and Prep Work

Ramaling

Ramaling

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I've been really impressed by the quality of work the Sven has been doing on his ID 19 Safari project.
Rather than re-invent the wheel I'm asking generally for advice on some basics.

I'm about to start on a project with my DS23 and am very interested in how you clean all the parts and then get the nickel plating finishes looking the way Sven has.
So I have a few questions achieving similar results.

On the basis that old Citroens seem make more oil than they ever use or consume, how do you go about cleaning things? I don't want to have a lot of mess and contaminated ground around my shed so how do your clean and dispose of all the degreased gunk. Do members hear use grease and oil traps?

Are the parts "re-nickeled". How are they looking so good? This concerns many of the nuts, bolts and washers in particular but also right down to the parts around the brake calipers on Sven's project.
Sven has achieved excellent results. So has anyone got some thoughts on these basic processes of cleaning, preparation and resurfacing?


 
they have been plated. You will need to find a barrel platter if you wish to replicate that finish :)
 
In my experience there’s no short road to de-messing engine bay mechanicals, just dismantling and cleaning individual parts in degreaser or petrol. There’s no shortage of sills, plates and undergear for decades of leaks to accumulate 😊
When I got all the parts re-nickeled, the converter advised me that the cleaner I supply the bits and pieces the better they will come up.
I put all nuts, bolts, washers, clips, boot struts, steering cantering rod with roller, and loads of other small bits into one bucket ‘job lot’ and they came back lovely, clean and shiny. Made reassembling soo much better!
Some bits you will need to deassemble, like the horn brackets…remember to TAKE PHOTOS. Things that look surprisingly simple to put back together can become a mystery with the passing of time. (Horn brackets are just one example, as there’s a few ways these will easily go back together, but only one way is correct🤔
 
Ramaling,

different parts need different cleaning processes:

for the large steel/painted parts I gave the lot either to a sand/bead blaster and then to the painter (chassis and external panels) or the powder coater (anything black, brackets, the rims, air filter, etc)

the hydraulic lines and small parts: I use a wire brush on a bench grinder - works well, a. It bigger unit would be nice as mine stalls when descaling/rust removal or polishing.

nuts and bolts: after trying an electroplater who was far too expensive and poor quality, I now found a good and decently priced one here in Melbourne. Some of the bolts, brackets, parts were in terrible condition and could have benefited from wire brushing before plating - but as always: cleverer in hindsight. The platers do yellow (gold), black and blue (silver) plating.

I had the bumpers polished by the same guy who rechromes a few parts for me - they were just too big for my little polishing wheel.

other parts: degreaser, wire brushes, elbow grease, water, - whatever works, then paint or clear coat or….

if all else fails: replacement of the part. 😬

but most of all: time. Hours and hours of scrubbing, grinding, polishing, wire brushing - some days I was a good (but utterly inappropriate) ‘black face’ impersonator - it’s a lot of work to get a car back to decent condition.

there are tumblers, degreasing basins and sand blasting cabinets that I was tempted to spend a few thousands on… but they all take up a lot of space and I wouldn’t use them every week. Or a spray booth …. Or a hoist… or…. 🙄

hope that helps. Give it a go, find some trustworthy guys that powder coat, paint and plate (shop around) - you can’t really stuff it up. Worst case you do it again!

have fun. Sven
 
Be careful with powder coating...... in fact I'd keep right away from it.
The applied film has high strength but low adhesion, meaning that a tiny chip can start corrosion which will creep along under the coat pushing it off.
You end up with a beautiful shiny film, peeling off in great sheets with yukky corrosion behind it.
Paint is much better, surface prep gives good adhesion, and lower film strength means that corrosion is less likely to creep under it.
I've seen Powdercoat wheels looking absolutely rotten after only 5 years.
Yukky stuff!
 
bleudanube said:
Ramaling,

different parts need different cleaning processes:

for the large steel/painted parts I gave the lot either to a sand/bead blaster and then to the painter (chassis and external panels) or the powder coater (anything black, brackets, the rims, air filter, etc)

the hydraulic lines and small parts: I use a wire brush on a bench grinder - works well, a. It bigger unit would be nice as mine stalls when descaling/rust removal or polishing.

nuts and bolts: after trying an electroplater who was far too expensive and poor quality, I now found a good and decently priced one here in Melbourne. Some of the bolts, brackets, parts were in terrible condition and could have benefited from wire brushing before plating - but as always: cleverer in hindsight. The platers do yellow (gold), black and blue (silver) plating.

I had the bumpers polished by the same guy who rechromes a few parts for me - they were just too big for my little polishing wheel.

other parts: degreaser, wire brushes, elbow grease, water, - whatever works, then paint or clear coat or….

if all else fails: replacement of the part. 😬

but most of all: time. Hours and hours of scrubbing, grinding, polishing, wire brushing - some days I was a good (but utterly inappropriate) ‘black face’ impersonator - it’s a lot of work to get a car back to decent condition.

there are tumblers, degreasing basins and sand blasting cabinets that I was tempted to spend a few thousands on… but they all take up a lot of space and I wouldn’t use them every week. Or a spray booth …. Or a hoist… or…. 🙄

hope that helps. Give it a go, find some trustworthy guys that powder coat, paint and plate (shop around) - you can’t really stuff it up. Worst case you do it again!

have fun. Sven
Click to expand...
Than you so much for sharing your experiences - a great help. So, hard graft it is!
 
Buttercup said:
... a tiny chip can start corrosion which will creep along under the coat pushing it off. ...
Click to expand...
Same with POR in my experience, especially if there is a pinhole in the metal being coated.

To be slightly critical of the barrel plating process, not every fastener on an original car has the same plated appearance. They would not all have looked the same shade of yellow that you typically end up with. Better than rusty though. My pet hate is cast aluminium that's clean, but heavily bead blasted so that it has lost that original satin cast look. It becomes immediately obvious if you compare an orginal finish part with a blasted one.
 
I never saw yellow finish on a first or second front car, always just silver and I think it was zinc, because it didn't last long...... by 20 years it was gone, having done it's sacrificial work. 90% of fasteners reclaimed off early cars are just raw metal.
 
David S said:
Same with POR in my experience, especially if there is a pinhole in the metal being coated.

To be slightly critical of the barrel plating process, not every fastener on an original car has the same plated appearance. They would not all have looked the same shade of yellow that you typically end up with. Better than rusty though. My pet hate is cast aluminium that's clean, but heavily bead blasted so that it has lost that original satin cast look. It becomes immediately obvious if you compare an orginal finish part with a blasted one.
Click to expand...
Yes same with POR.
For rust prevention in hidden areas I use lanolin based spray. It never hardens, ie it has zero film strength, therefore corrosion cannot crawl under it.
On exposed areas likely to be contacted I use a good primer, etch if I have it, which has a low film strength, and old fashioned enamel paint.
Adhesion not cohesion.
 
When you are dipping lots of small parts in solvent for precleaning, nuts, washers, bolts etc , I always wire them up in assemblies so I know where they belong.
 
Unfortunately there is no shortcut to getting everything clean, just lots and lots of elbow grease. Be prepared to make one hell of a mess on the garage floor when degreasing the engine bay and underside of the car.

The yellow plating on some fasteners is cadmium which due to environmental laws isn't done anymore. Others are plain zinc and some are black, it depends on where they are on the car and if they could be seen. For instance, the outer window seal clips should be black because you can see them through the glass. Reproduction ones are silver and stand out against the seal.

Make sure to take photos from every angle you can think of as the parts books aren't always as helpful as you might think.
 
You are right Bob, the earlier cars had silver fasteners, but… I really liked the yellow/gold coloured fasteners on my third nose D Super, so I strayed off the super original path a tad… to ensure The old girl won’t win Pebble Beach Concourse 😂.

i agree with all the comments on photos from every angle…. I am up to almost 2000 now and still have angles that I haven’t covered. It becomes A good game of memory …
 
faulksy said:
Unfortunately there is no shortcut to getting everything clean, just lots and lots of elbow grease. Be prepared to make one hell of a mess on the garage floor when degreasing the engine bay and underside of the car.

The yellow plating on some fasteners is cadmium which due to environmental laws isn't done anymore. Others are plain zinc and some are black, it depends on where they are on the car and if they could be seen. For instance, the outer window seal clips should be black because you can see them through the glass. Reproduction ones are silver and stand out against the seal.

Make sure to take photos from every angle you can think of as the parts books aren't always as helpful as you might think.
Click to expand...
Seems a mix of metals. I had a look at two videos today of people passivating nickel plating as a last stage after the electroplating was complete. I think the passivating solution may have been cadmium dichromate but the base plating was nickel which went from silver to yellow.
It looks like a lot of work.



 
The plating kit was another add on I contemplated, as you could batch plate as you pull parts off… but a good set up took up a lot of space and needed heaters and decent power supply…. Once I found a good plating company the urge went away as they were fast and good value.
 
Buttercup said:
Be careful with powder coating...... in fact I'd keep right away from it.
The applied film has high strength but low adhesion, meaning that a tiny chip can start corrosion which will creep along under the coat pushing it off.
You end up with a beautiful shiny film, peeling off in great sheets with yukky corrosion behind it.
Paint is much better, surface prep gives good adhesion, and lower film strength means that corrosion is less likely to creep under it.
I've seen Powdercoat wheels looking absolutely rotten after only 5 years.
Yukky stuff!
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like the coating was not done properly or the owner didn't stipulate his requirements. Just grunting and pointing when dropping of a couple of bits into the re finishers, will get you a standard powder coat job but that's all. Good for fences and table legs.
My younger son is foreman at a metal refinishing business where they do a lot of old and new car stuff from chassis to bodies and anything in between.
Metal treatment/coating is a skilled process. To produce a good professional job, you have to understand the product being used, what type of finish is required and how long the customer expects it to last. Of course it also depends on the weight of his purse.
Blasting requires some very expensive equipment, that's why it's charged by the minute. A top grade powder, imported from USA with a 20 year guarantee and a fancy finish will probably cost in the vicinity of $1000 a pound but is sold here by the gram. so you have to know what you're doing when applying expensive stuff like that. Staff is another issue. Employing people who know what they're about.
Unfortunately there's too many cowboys out there doing a quick sand, blow on the powder, bung it in the oven and get ready to collar the cheque.
 
faulksy said:
Unfortunately there is no shortcut to getting everything clean, just lots and lots of elbow grease. Be prepared to make one hell of a mess on the garage floor when degreasing the engine bay and underside of the car.

The yellow plating on some fasteners is cadmium which due to environmental laws isn't done anymore. Others are plain zinc and some are black, it depends on where they are on the car and if they could be seen. For instance, the outer window seal clips should be black because you can see them through the glass. Reproduction ones are silver and stand out against the seal.

Make sure to take photos from every angle you can think of as the parts books aren't always as helpful as you might think.
Click to expand...
 
For cleaning parts [non engine] you'll find a bath of pure white vinegar removes the rust while you watch, well almost. I've had amazing results and it doesn't destroy the molding edge marks like buffing does. Heavy rust, the hard aged stuff, may take overnight or so, but it will work.
Buy 4 ltrs cheap at local supermarket or 1ltr at Bunnings for almost the same price. Add a little salt to make it work faster [optional]

Warning it won't hurt chromium but it will remove cadmium so quick dip and water rinse if you must.

For a clear protective coat of metal parts try RUST-OLEUM 2X ultra cover gloss clear. Pressure pac can industrial grade stuff with plenty of body. Turps solvent while wet. Stockist are Bunnings.
 
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if you have a local barrel plater (ballarat has a good one) just take a big bucket of stuff up and get them to put it through for you. Way cheaper and simpler than trying to do it yourself. I think last time it cost about $80 for a huge tub of fasteners/brackets. You need to remove paint, but there toxic cleaning chemicals will do a great job and prepping them for you. They will also stress relieve the fasteners for you once done.
 
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