That's really helpful too @Ken W - thanks. I would imagine too if the fan is at full blast yes it would be very loud inside - right now you can't even hear the airflow in mine! At the end of the day it's not killing me yet because the interior does eventually cool down with the partial airflow, just not right away. But your suggestion to bypass the speed controller is a good process of elimination - I just need to properly lie on my back with my legs over the passenger seat and when the weather fines up I'll have a go ...
C5 X7 weak aircon flow
- Thread starter aranciata-oz
- Start date
I don't know a thing about these particular cars, but some simple basics to try...
- Set the aircon to recirculate mode. If you suddenly get good airflow, then the fresh air inlet at the base of the windscreen is probably blocked.
- If you can easily remove the fan motor assembly, then remove it and see if the fan is at all stiff / unwilling to spin. It should turn very easily, if you spin it with your hand it should keep spinning for a bit, not stop immediately. If the fan doesn't feel free spinning, then you may need to oil the fan bearings or just replace the fan motor.
If the fan spins freely and there are no blockages in the vents, ducting or flaps, then the electronic fan controller is probably kaput.
Last easy thing to try is the fan fuse - bad connection? dodgy fuse making poor contact?
- Set the aircon to recirculate mode. If you suddenly get good airflow, then the fresh air inlet at the base of the windscreen is probably blocked.
- If you can easily remove the fan motor assembly, then remove it and see if the fan is at all stiff / unwilling to spin. It should turn very easily, if you spin it with your hand it should keep spinning for a bit, not stop immediately. If the fan doesn't feel free spinning, then you may need to oil the fan bearings or just replace the fan motor.
If the fan spins freely and there are no blockages in the vents, ducting or flaps, then the electronic fan controller is probably kaput.
Last easy thing to try is the fan fuse - bad connection? dodgy fuse making poor contact?
@seasink - quick question … (I’ve been flat out, only getting chance to look at this again this week) - the partial dash removal involves the head unit screen removal? If so then I’d like to start there ie at the very least I want to see if I can inspect the flap moving at all. If not, what is involved in getting to the top vents (I assume you mean top vents as in the middle one on the top of the dashboard?)
Don't make this too hard. Getting the control panel off and the screen above is easy, but then it gets harder if you don't want to cut the unit open because the duct is still fitted. The controls panel prises off if you need to, watch for the wire connections. Prising off the long decorative strip on the passenger side makes the front dash panel and screen accessible for removal and the air discharge is behind.. Use plastic tools.
As I understand it there is poor airflow on both sides in heating and cooling. You'd be very unlucky to have all the flaps blocking flow. It's more likely the fan, or the fan speed control, or an airway blockage. A way to check flap rotation is to remove a motor and mark the perimeter of the flap drive, put back the motor and run and change the AC setting. Leave it on, and remove the motor - has it moved?
If it is a flap socket or a flap motor there are cures mentioned in the forum and also online for Range Rovers.
As I understand it there is poor airflow on both sides in heating and cooling. You'd be very unlucky to have all the flaps blocking flow. It's more likely the fan, or the fan speed control, or an airway blockage. A way to check flap rotation is to remove a motor and mark the perimeter of the flap drive, put back the motor and run and change the AC setting. Leave it on, and remove the motor - has it moved?
If it is a flap socket or a flap motor there are cures mentioned in the forum and also online for Range Rovers.
Just then I managed to get a good view of one the left flaps operating under different aircon direction/outlet settings - see first video here. It appears the flap is not broken off its spindle (great!) but I’m getting a bit confused why when changing from top/dash outlet setting to face level outlet, the flap is cycling back to original position …
0 new items by Fabian Chow
photos.app.goo.gl
Secondly, after re-testing the manual airflow speed again this past week, it appears there is discernible control between 0 and 2 (4 half cloves) but when trying to adjust the speed beyond 2 to 4, there is no discernible change in air speed beyond 2 - see second video here:
New video by Fabian Chow
photos.app.goo.gl
It’s potentially pointing to a controller issue?
PS: hopefully the videos can be accessed if not please advise … thanks guys …
I just realised that I’m probably working in the heater side of the unit so my expectations about how the flaps work on that side was incorrect. I did accidentally touch the coolant pipes and yep I almost burnt my fingers doing so …Just then I managed to get a good view of one the left flaps operating under different aircon direction/outlet settings - see first video here. It appears the flap is not broken off its spindle (great!) but I’m getting a bit confused why when changing from top/dash outlet setting to face level outlet, the flap is cycling back to original position …
0 new items by Fabian Chow
Secondly, after re-testing the manual airflow speed again this past week, it appears there is discernible control between 0 and 2 (4 half cloves) but when trying to adjust the speed beyond 2 to 4, there is no discernible change in air speed beyond 2 - see second video here:
New video by Fabian Chow
It’s potentially pointing to a controller issue?
PS: hopefully the videos can be accessed if not please advise … thanks guys …
An important point that must be remembered when replacing the cabin filter and working in that area>
Put an old towel or blanket across the bottom edge of the door opening to protect the door seal. Your contortions in that area can stress the relatively soft rubber seal which can tear and then lead to a weak point where water can seep in.
Put an old towel or blanket across the bottom edge of the door opening to protect the door seal. Your contortions in that area can stress the relatively soft rubber seal which can tear and then lead to a weak point where water can seep in.
Yes your fan has a speed control problem. Mine steps up evenly all the way up to 8 petals by which time it is roaring and it is hard to make yourself heard in the car. It suggest you try some of the suggestions I made to get 12 volts onto the fan motor to see if it will roar for you too.
If it does, then you most likely have a fan controller current limiting problem.
Cheers, Ken
If it does, then you most likely have a fan controller current limiting problem.
Cheers, Ken
Noticed this yesterday, when I had the 8 half leaves blowing full blast, when parking, put my X7 (2010) into reverse and the vent output and fan RPM increased. Into D and they decreased, again into R and an increase.
Now why would the output/RPM be increased when into reverse?
Anyone else have the same?
Now why would the output/RPM be increased when into reverse?
Anyone else have the same?
Yes, when you shift into Reverse, the aircon switches to recirculate so you don't suck in diesel fumes - very kind that move and then when you go back to Drive, it goes back to its previous setting. So it sounds like you may have a blockage somewhere maybe in the recirculate path as centrifugal fans blowing less air usually speed up.
Cheers Ken
Cheers Ken
@Ken W - is this the connector you’re referring to, to try and bypass the controller to directly power the fan motor?
Excuse me for not listening in electrical class during my mech eng years, but I’m having trouble understanding how the controller is wired - I do assume it’s powered by a switched source but then how it’s wired back to the motor I’m not fully clear on - the white wire in my case perhaps? In other words am I then to connect the red wire in this case to the white wire (connector unplugged) to bypass the controller (assuming this is the connector to the controller!)?
Note: yes I will be using a multimeter to test all this before attempting any bypassing …
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No, it is connector 11 on the diagram below that seasink put in a post on page 1 of this thread. Item 11 is the motor speed controller and it sits behind the cover for the pollen filter. If you turn the controller slightly anti-clockwise, it will unlock and the heatsink will come out of the air box. The connector will come off the controller if you pinch in the top of the tabs above their rests one either side of the connector.
Cheers, Ken
Cheers, Ken
Ah … silly me … of course. All this while my muddled brain was telling me the controller was the AC control panel itselfNo, it is connector 11 on the diagram below that seasink put in a post on page 1 of this thread. Item 11 is the motor speed controller and it sits behind the cover for the pollen filter. If you turn the controller slightly anti-clockwise, it will unlock and the heatsink will come out of the air box. The connector will come off the controller if you pinch in the top of the tabs above their rests one either side of the connector.
Cheers, Ken
… thanks again - let me get to this motor controller …Well well well … I just tested the controller bypass … as in tested it whilst almost burning my car downAh … silly me … of course. All this while my muddled brain was telling me the controller was the AC control panel itself
…After what I thought (including reading French UK forums on this topic of bypassing the controller), after disconnecting the plug (but left the controller installed ie didn’t quarter turned and removed it), I used a safety clip to connect the two thick wires namely the yellow-green and black, then wrapped it up in a rag (yeah, I know …) to keep it all isolated from any ground surfaces …
Started the car, and voila … the blower fan went into full blast mode for the first time … but before I could wait to test the flaps (I know I missed a step somewhere about possibly not running this setup too long, as in sparking …), smoke began to billow from the passenger well … the bloody rag caught on FIRE! I immediately switched off the engine and all and yanked the stuff out the car … thankfully it was all extinguished! The plug is now worse for wear - I’ll have to electrical spray it clean as the melted PVC may have contaminated the metal connections. Oh I feel like a tool. Hopefully the plug will still re fasten back into the controller post cleaning …
So … at least I can establish the fan blower can run at max (just better without any smoke, thank you!!!
).Yeah check out the photos
What did I do wrong in the test? Was I supposed to uninstall the controller? Not have the ignition on for more than a second or two (I’m trying to understand what happened there in an electrical sense)? Did I introduce a hot joint by not connecting the bypass safety clip snugly into the metal connections?
Attachments
@Ken W I just re-read your post - the “heatsink” gives me a clue about what could have happened in relation to my stuff up … if you can shed some light for me please (shed light as in shining a torch into the dark recesses of my head, not light from a naked flame …)Well well well … I just tested the controller bypass … as in tested it whilst almost burning my car down
After what I thought (including reading French UK forums on this topic of bypassing the controller), after disconnecting the plug (but left the controller installed ie didn’t quarter turned and removed it), I used a safety clip to connect the two thick wires namely the yellow-green and black, then wrapped it up in a rag (yeah, I know …) to keep it all isolated from any ground surfaces …
Started the car, and voila … the blower fan went into full blast mode for the first time … but before I could wait to test the flaps (I know I missed a step somewhere about possibly not running this setup too long, as in sparking …), smoke began to billow from the passenger well … the bloody rag caught on FIRE! I immediately switched off the engine and all and yanked the stuff out the car … thankfully it was all extinguished! The plug is now worse for wear - I’ll have to electrical spray it clean as the melted PVC may have contaminated the metal connections. Oh I feel like a tool. Hopefully the plug will still re fasten back into the controller post cleaning …
So … at least I can establish the fan blower can run at max (just better without any smoke, thank you!!!
Yeah check out the photos
What did I do wrong in the test? Was I supposed to uninstall the controller? Not have the ignition on for more than a second or two (I’m trying to understand what happened there in an electrical sense)? Did I introduce a hot joint by not connecting the bypass safety clip snugly into the metal connections?
Update: thankfully the heat sink connector plugged back in after a firm shove. AC also back to working (non max flow) conditionWell well well … I just tested the controller bypass … as in tested it whilst almost burning my car down
After what I thought (including reading French UK forums on this topic of bypassing the controller), after disconnecting the plug (but left the controller installed ie didn’t quarter turned and removed it), I used a safety clip to connect the two thick wires namely the yellow-green and black, then wrapped it up in a rag (yeah, I know …) to keep it all isolated from any ground surfaces …
Started the car, and voila … the blower fan went into full blast mode for the first time … but before I could wait to test the flaps (I know I missed a step somewhere about possibly not running this setup too long, as in sparking …), smoke began to billow from the passenger well … the bloody rag caught on FIRE! I immediately switched off the engine and all and yanked the stuff out the car … thankfully it was all extinguished! The plug is now worse for wear - I’ll have to electrical spray it clean as the melted PVC may have contaminated the metal connections. Oh I feel like a tool. Hopefully the plug will still re fasten back into the controller post cleaning …
So … at least I can establish the fan blower can run at max (just better without any smoke, thank you!!!
Yeah check out the photos
What did I do wrong in the test? Was I supposed to uninstall the controller? Not have the ignition on for more than a second or two (I’m trying to understand what happened there in an electrical sense)? Did I introduce a hot joint by not connecting the bypass safety clip snugly into the metal connections?
@Ken W - I think I understand how motor resistors work now:
Blower Motor Resistor Operation
Blower Motor Resistor Operation Blower Motor Resistors (BMR) control the electrical current flowing from the fan switch to the blower fan, which allows the motorist to set the fan at different speeds. The fan speed can be changed by switching the blower resistor resistance mechanically, using a...
www.counterman.com
Question is should the replacement of mine be the next step?
Guys will this part work?@Ken W - I think I understand how motor resistors work now:
Blower Motor Resistor Operation
Blower Motor Resistor Operation Blower Motor Resistors (BMR) control the electrical current flowing from the fan switch to the blower fan, which allows the motorist to set the fan at different speeds. The fan speed can be changed by switching the blower resistor resistance mechanically, using a...
Question is should the replacement of mine be the next step?
Heater Blower Fan Motor Resistor Resistance 6441S7 For Citroen C3 C4 C4 C5 DS3 | eBay
For 2009-2015 Citroen DS3. For 2004-2011 Citroen C4. For 2009-2016 Citroen C3. For 2008-2019 Citroen C5. Type: Blower Motor Resistor. 1 pcs Blower resistor. New Motorcycle Fuel Pump Fits For Yamaha YZFR1 YZF R1 R6 Thunderace 1998-2002 AU.
www.ebay.com.au
Yes this is the electronic heater controller for your car. I bought one from this ebay seller a month or so ago as he was making some claims about quality and offered a 12 month warranty and the controller he sent did work OK. There have been other who bought cheapie ebay clinese controllers that havn't worked when delivered.
Here is the parts diagram showing the controller as item 10.
Cheers, Ken
HEATER BLOWER MOTOR FAN RESISTOR FOR PEUGEOT 307 407 Citroen C3 C4 C5 C6 6441.S7 | eBay
OEM PART NUMBER: 6441S7, 6441. Easy to install, fit for PEUGEOT 307 407 Citroen C3 C4 C5 C6. 1 Blower Motor Resistor. We promise to solve the problem for you. Made of high quality aluminum and ABS for maximum durability.
www.ebay.com.au
Here is the parts diagram showing the controller as item 10.
Cheers, Ken