BIGGER WHEELS FOR 504

Keep trying. There are some threads on the board about this.

Don't let anyone tell you the wheels are unbalanceable due to buckling, though. Even severely buckled wheels should balance.

I poured over $100 balancing various wheels with Discount Tyre Service Fyshwick before (when they told me 'if it keeps vibrating, drive it to the tip') I took my wheels to Woden Tyre & Exhaust, where they balanced first time, silky smooth. (these are wheels that Discount Tyres told me where f**ed and unbalanceable, and made worse).

I had Woden Tyre & Exhaust recommended to me by Alpine Motors (one of Canberra's Pug joints.) Try ringing other Pug workshops in Sydney and see who they recommend.

On-car balancing is, from what I've found out, both over-expensive, unnecessary and (in the case of Bob Jane at least) the balancer can't fit under the 505 strut arrangement if the wheel is much out of balance.

(As an alternative to all of this, you could sell me your 504. :) .)
 
hehe, ok i'll sell it. j/k. I just want to get it done as it is annoying me. I got monday off so i will go hunting then. I am hopefully getting my suspension done next week, shocks and springs all round, as it handles like a boat atm. Any susgestions on which suspension i should go for? I was thinking koni's...
 
Have a look at Dave Mcbean's website, it has some useful info on sway bars etc.

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/davemcbean/fiveohsindex.html?997061496590" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/davemcbean/fiveohsindex.html?997061496590</a>

On balancing, I took mine to Bob Jane and they made it worse despite using a adaptor to fit my wheels (I have the same 14" 504/505 rims you have). In the end I took it to my local Peugeot specialists and they did it well.
 
Pug-13B, could you post an image of your newly painted wheels? I am interested as to how they look now. I am considering doing it if it looks really good.

One of my non-froggy friends thinks I should paint the wheels black and keep on all the chrome trim and those small chrome rimmed hub caps to make it look like an American police car clown
 
Nick
do what they used to do in the 60's and paint the wheels black, leave all the chrome off them, then when driving around at night it looks like you don't have wheels on the car as they tend to blend in with the road and lack of light under the car
apparently my old man used to do this to all his cars in the 60's along with many others
he then used to lap up and down church and pitt in parramatta
 
I can't believe the trouble you're having to get wheels balanced, PUG 13B. My brother put new tyres on his 504 (same wheels as yours) and to balance them the tyre guys used a MAG WHEEL BALANCER. They had two balancing machines, one for normal wheels and one for mags, because some mags don't have a centre hole, same as the pug wheels. This was a very ordinary tyre service too.

John
 
PUG-13B,

The best shocks you can fit is genuine 505 shocks all around.

Konis work OK, as do Aliquants on the front and KYBs on the rear (but don't do the opposite).

250lbs/in springs with a free height of 400mm should be fine for the rear with a 19mm rear swaybar. A 27mm front swaybar should be OK, but I'm unsure of the front spring rate or free height you should use, given the lighter rotary engine you're using (how much does the engine weigh?).

Dave
 
As for wheels, the standard offset is 25mm for Peugeot 6" alloys. What is more important is the back spacing. If you have a back spacing larger than stock Pug mags (approx 100mm) then you can run into tyre/strut clearance problems.

Dave
 
Gus... I happen to know that DTS have the Pug adaptor for their balancer... at least at Belconnen and Fyshwick... did you go back and show them that they'd come good?

PUG-13B... I can get a bit of a cut on Konis if you want.

Dave... I don't think the rotary would be any lighter. Those castings are awfully heavy... and they hold a lot of water.
 
Gus... I happen to know that DTS have the Pug adaptor for their balancer... at least at Belconnen and Fyshwick...
Click to expand...
Yep. That's why I went to DTS Fyshwick. I rang around asking for who had a Peugeot adapter.

did you go back and show them that they'd come good?
Click to expand...
Well, once the back-of-house techy has told you your car is f**ed and to drive it to the tip, and the front-of-house guy has said "don't bring it back", and you've spent a ton of money and had their monkeys keep blaming your wheels... you don't really feel like doing anything but letting them have it...

(Why I didn't do that, I'm not sure. At the time I was so damn happy my car actually rolled smoothly, I didn't really worry about jobs done wrong for a day or two.)

Since DTS, I've had wheels balanced perfectly by both Woden Tyre & Exhaust and The Wheel Factory (in Queanbeyan) so I'd recommend either/both.

<small>[ 19 January 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Gus ]</small>
 
thanks for the feedback again guy's, really appreciate it. I will upload some pics of the car as i get the new suspension and stuff fitted in the car. I will go wheel balance hunting tomorrow morning. So does anyone know of a place in syd that can definately do the wheel balancing on the car? or reccomend someone?
 
Drummoyne Bob-Jane has the adaptor plate for the 306GTi, but thats diff to urs.
When I had the subaru ('87 brumby) I used on-car wheel balancing like they have in Granville Bob-Jane. Its right next to the pub (corner Woodville and Parra rds)
and if you go there near lunch you will get some skimpies ... sight for druken eyes.
The balanace while not perfect was quite ok for anything upto 130km/hr

good luck.

<small>[ 20 January 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
 
I took the car to Bob Jane in Granville, they managed to do an on-car balance and did a good job. Charged me $15 per wheel which was ok. I only got the front done and car seems to drive ok now.
 
Down here in Hobart I have my Peugeot 504 and Renault 16 wheels ballanced by Bob Jane T-Mart in Harrington Street.

They have the right gear and I highly recommend their "Silver" balance which costs about $16 per wheel. They remove the tires and existing weights, then measure the wheel and tire balances separately, marking them with chalk accordingly. The tires are then re-fitted to the wheels with the tire rotated such that the heaviest sector of the tire is directly opposite the heaviest sector of the wheel so that the tire and the wheel sort of balance each other out. Then the wheel with tire fitted is given a final ballance to correct any remaining wobble. Very thorough, takes about an hour, but the resulting smoothness has to be experienced to be believed. Definitely worth the extra money. Furthermore, this system usually results in less weights being used.

<small>[ 24 February 2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: frogs4ever ]</small>
 
Some time in the sixties, as I recall, maybe 1966 or so, American carmakers started a process like this on their assembly lines.

They weren't lining them up for weight balancing, however, but for out of round, placing high points on the tyres on the low points of wheels.

Are you sure this isn't what Bob Jane's do? I don't see how they could balance a tyre without a rim inside it.
 
I didn't watch them closely so I'm not sure exactly how they do it. But here's one way which I think would work:

1. Balance the wheel while tire still fitted.
2. Crayon accross the wheel and tire so that the rotational axis of the original fitting is known.
3. Remove the tire, being careful not to brush off the crayon mark.
4. Balance the wheel without the tire.
5. By making note of the differences in balance with and without the tire, it should be possible to calculate where the heaviest sector of the tire is.

eg. Lets pretend that the wheel and tire is put on the machine, and it is found that 50 grams of lead is required at 155 degrees from a reference point on the wheel (lets use the valve as a reference point for the sake of convenience). Now we draw a crayon mark accross the wheel and tire at 155 degrees from the valve. Then remove the tire from the wheel. We balance the wheel by itself and find that it now needs only 10 grams of lead at 155 degrees in order to balance. Then we can assume that the heaviest spot on the tire must be directly oposite the 155 degree mark on the wheel, at 335 degrees, since 40 additional grams were required at 155 degrees when the tire was fitted. The solution in this instance would be to rotate the heavy spot on the tire to 155 degrees from the valve, which would result in 30 grams of weights being needed at 335 degrees to give perfect overall balance. The end result would be a saving of 20 grams of lead and better a match between wheel and tire.

I hope this makes sense.

The above example is a conveniently simple one, but a standard formula or look-up table could be devised to deal with the full range of scenarios.
 
Yes, simple... overly simple, I think...

Because an out of balance point in the tyre would be of more import (greater speed etc) than one on the wheel.

On the other hand, smoothness must be enhanced if the high spot of the tyre is matched to the low spot on the wheel.
 
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