BIGGER WHEELS FOR 504

im gonna cop it for this but!... try having your disks welded over (its a special technique, but not too expensive) and then have them re drilled and tapped to suit, ie like a commodore pattern or new Pug pattern ie 4x108???, if you get 5 stud commodore pattern your wheel selection opens right up from ex-chaser wheels (in the paper for $300 with tyres) to nice racing/chrome wheels etc. choice would be huge. Though id stick to a pug pattern so u can fit pug wheels, ie such as from a 406 etc.
Another way to go is to use adaptors, i had custom ones spun up from a good alloy and run 17's on my car, i also increased my track with by just a little, the weight of the adaptor and wheel are only a little more than my original pug alloys. So unsprung weight isn't thrown out the window.
but if you want full custom alloys, like you said and Ray and others, Simmons are very hard to beat, they also hold thier price really well, compared to other alloys.
good luck

Xqisid

ps, fit a front-mount cooler wil ya!
 
xqisid:
I'm gonna cop it for this but!... try having your disks welded over (its a special technique, but not too expensive) and then have them re drilled and tapped to suit, ie like a commodore pattern or new Pug pattern ie 4x108
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Not the discs but the hubs...

There is a pair of fronts that have been done and one rear floating around, no idea who did them, but they look all right.

They were welded up, refaced and then redrilled to 114.?mm for the popular Japanese 4-stud pattern.

I think it's illegal to weld them, however... no matter how safe it is.
 
Ray Bell:
xqisid:
I'm gonna cop it for this but!... try having your disks welded over (its a special technique, but not too expensive) and then have them re drilled and tapped to suit, ie like a commodore pattern or new Pug pattern ie 4x108
Click to expand...
Not the discs but the hubs...
There is a pair of fronts that have been done and one rear floating around, no idea who did them, but they look all right.
I think it's illegal to weld them, however... no matter how safe it is.
Click to expand...
Tx's Ray, thought that didn't sound quite right when i read it back. too lazy to (edit). Still if its illegal, are adaptors illegal, my RTA mate (ie works at a counter) says he cant find anything specific against em, but others mught know better. Cheers xqisid
PS, just to clarify things up as we "SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE" here i ozfrogs, but i don't want to lead people astray.
 
you will just have to check as to the regulations regarding wheel track
i know you are allowed a little change but not a lot
or it may be nothing at all
 
In NSW you're allowed up to a 26mm track increase without an Engineer's certificate. So, technically, Cheviot mags are illegal without an engineers certificate (although many people like myself have used them for years without one) The NSW RTA may not have the original track width on their database anyway. Insurance investigators are another issue (they're not so lazy).

Dave

<small>[ 23 December 2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
 
davemcbean:
.....Insurance investigators are another issue (they're not so lazy).
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Of course not, money's involved!

It's not so unreasonable a rule, either. The issue is additional load on wheel bearings... I don't think it's really a problem to play it a bit safe in that department.
 
Ray Bell:
Originally posted by davemcbean:
[qb]..
It's not so unreasonable a rule, either. The issue is additional load on wheel bearings... I don't think it's really a problem to play it a bit safe in that department.
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I agree. I had a rear wheel bearing fail on my 504 which had Cheviot rims and it was a little scary.

For everyday use I prefer the correct offset, but on the "Sunday only" hot 504 that I plan to build, I plan to use my Cheviots fitted with sticky Yokohamas. My "everyday" 505 will continue to use the Peugeot 14" wheels with tyres which give a reasonable life (40,000km+).

Dave
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Originally posted by davemcbean
<strong>.....on the "Sunday only" hot 504 that I plan to build, I plan to use my Cheviots fitted with sticky Yokohamas.....
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You have an interesting drive to church, Dave?

Actually, when I posted that I had in mind the rear wheel bearings. Seems to me that they are probably getting marginal as they age, they can cop some big loads with trailers, bootfuls and fat grandma passengers, and they aren't endowed with a lot of distance between the races.

<small>[ 23 December 2002, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Ray Bell ]</small>
 
Ray Bell:
Actually, when I posted that I had in mind the rear wheel bearings. Seems to me that they are probably getting marginal as they age, they can cop some big loads with trailers, bootfuls and fat grandma passengers, and they aren't endowed with a lot of distance between the races.
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...and they are only angular contact ball bearings which are not good at handling cantilevered loads, unlike the tapered roller bearings fitted to the front of 604s, 505s, and later 504s (up to about 1976 the front wheel bearings of 504s are also only angular contact ball bearings).

A small amount of material can be removed from the inside face of Cheviot mags, to reduce the track, but not alot, because they'll run into clearance problems with the rear brake calipers.

Dave
 
Ray Bell:
You have an interesting drive to church, Dave?
.
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Yeah, I have a few actually, which are both the drive and the Church:

-Macquarie Pass (a most Holy shrine indeed!)
-Kangaroo Valley
-Royal National Park
-Putty Road
-Bell's Line of Road
-Diamond Fields Rd from Mittagong to Kangaloon

and the list goes on.

<small>[ 24 December 2002, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
 
davemcbean:
Ray Bell:
You have an interesting drive to church, Dave?
.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have a few actually, which are both the drive and the Church:

-Macquarie Pass (a most Holy shrine indeed!)
-Kangaroo Valley
-Royal National Park
-Putty Road
-Bell's Line of Road
-Diamond Fields Rd from Mittagong to Kangaloon

and the list goes on.
Click to expand...
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Macquarie pass
that is a road that i dearly miss these days living out here
had a scary moment going down that road one day when i overtook a truck down one of the short straights and then over cooked the TI going into a right hander and spun the car around on the spot and was then looking at the truck still coming down the road
it's amazing what adrenaline can do though
i popped the clutch in 1st, spun the car back in the right direction and went like stink
i then found out just how far i could push the car with A509 yokies fitted
mind you i was on my way to TAFE for a final exam and i still did really well even after that :D
 
davemcbean:
...and they are only angular contact ball bearings which are not good at handling cantilevered loads, unlike the tapered roller bearings fitted to the front of 604s, 505s, and later 504s (up to about 1976 the front wheel bearings of 504s are also only angular contact ball bearings)....
Click to expand...
Exactly what I meant... modern technology has brought us these great space-saving bearings, but they're not meant to be severely overloaded.

Peugeot probably does a lot better than other makers in over-engineering, but you don't want to stress these parts.

Didn't the 504 front bearings change with the door handles?
 
Ray Bell:
Didn't the 504 front bearings change with the door handles?
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That's what I used to think too, but in the last few years I've stripped and looked at about 3 different 1976 model 504s (2 early 76, 1 later 1976). The early 76 cars had the early type of strut and calipers with the single braking system, while the later one had the newer type of struts and calipers and a tandem braking system.

I understand that in the US all 504s had tandem brakes as well as the later 404s.

Dave
 
Ray Bell:
davemcbean:
...and they are only angular contact ball bearings which are not good at handling cantilevered loads, unlike the tapered roller bearings fitted to the front of 604s, 505s, and later 504s (up to about 1976 the front wheel bearings of 504s are also only angular contact ball bearings)....
Click to expand...
Exactly what I meant... modern technology has brought us these great space-saving bearings, but they're not meant to be severely overloaded.
Click to expand...
They're not exactly modern. They were the type of wheel bearings that were used before tapered rollers were invented, but they have been given a new lease of life in modern circlip-retained cassette-type bearings (like those used on the rear wheelbearings of 505 sedans from the early 1980s onwards).

Some cars still make do with very old fashioned deep groove ball bearings in their hubs. You would certainly want the correct offset with those, although they do tend to make the bearings more widely spaced to make up for their lack of tolerance of thrust.
 
Hey guys, i ended up spraying the wheels silver and they turned out ok. Car looks much better now. Iv'e had the tyres changed too, but im having a nightmare trying to find someone who can balance the wheels....
 
PUG-13B:
Hey guys, i ended up spraying the wheels silver and they turned out ok. Car looks much better now. Iv'e had the tyres changed too, but im having a nightmare trying to find someone who can balance the wheels....
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Do you have any sign of out of balance?

If not, don't worry about it...

But if you want to balance them yourself, set up a hub on a stand or something with only oil in the bearings. Bolt on the wheel and let it settle... then try various size weights at the top of the wheel and repeat the process until you have a wheel that doesn't want to settle in one place.

Bruce Collier used this method for years, claimed he saw the same thing at the Alpine works where the rally and race cars were prepared.
 
Yeah the car really needs it bad. The wheel shakes really bad as i get to about 70-80Kms.

Don't really want to try and attempt to do it myself, will probably make it worse. Iv'e been told to do an on-car wheel balane, but i can't find anyone with an on-car wheel balancer.
 
call your local dealer and ask them where they get their wheels balanced at for pugs
there are quite a few places around that have the adaptor to balance the wheels
i have a similar problem with the GTi-6 when ever we get new tyres and thats all i did
 
hehe, already tried that. I called artarmon peugeot, they put me through to their guys. They set up the adaptor but were unable to do it... There wasn't enough thread on the studs on the adaptor to bolt the wheel on....
 
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