Anyone got a sump?

[PeterT]

The motor sitting waiting quietly in the wings to which I have access is from a BX16V Citroen. I thought it was an XU10 but it may be a fancy version of the XU9 then? This may have the baffled sump, ( or by 'open" do you mean no baffle?) but should have spacer plate and extended oil pump?

The motor in the BX16V is nothing fancy, just the detuned XU9J4Z (DFW), the same as fitted to local early Mi16's. It has the standard open sump and a spacer plate. As I said earlier, this combination is the same overall height as the XU10 sump and the DFZ sump.

I'm not aware of anyone making extended pickups, other than me. This is only required if you use the XU10 sump and a spacer plate, in order to increase the oil capacity and keep the pickup at the bottom of the sump.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Different then, was looking at the rally parts book.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

My Constella sump.

 

[pottsy]

Thanks for the pics Graham.

So the Constella is just fixed baffles, no flappy gates at all?

The section with the three small cutouts visible at the right of the third pic, does that touch the bottom of the sump to limit the flow side to side?

Looks doable for a clever bloke.

Cheers, Pottsy

 

[PeterT]

It’s a combined windage tray and baffle.

 

[swm405]

I've currently got the sump off the "resurrection project" 205 gti.

The owner was a little concerned when he did a few track days, before laying it up for a while, that the sump really needed baffles as the cornering forces are very high in the Hatchback of Notre Dame, and winking oil pressure lights are always a distraction.

I believe that Taylor Engineering used to offer a baffled sump on a changeover service, but Peter isn't doing them any more apparently.

So my question to the Brains Trust: Does anyone have a baffled sump for an XU9J1 engine that they don't want or need? We can swap for an unbaffled unit if necessary.

Is there a pattern for the baffle that is available for duplication, preferably without infringing anyone's IP? Should I try to dummy something up in cardboard or whatever and have a crack?

Is it a difficult job for an experienced welder of aluminium to fabricate such a thing? Does anyone have spare XU9J1 sump we could play with while keeping the original in reserve in case of stuffups?

Alternatively, I'd be keen to hear of other options available. Do the sumps from any other XU series engines (a) fit and (b) have baffles?

I'm on a steep learning curve with these engines so all information is good information.

Cheers, Pottsy.

I have just picked one up for a XU9J1 that has a small crack that I have to repair. I am happy to take some detailed photos and measurements for you

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Thanks for the pics Graham.

So the Constella is just fixed baffles, no flappy gates at all?

The section with the three small cutouts visible at the right of the third pic, does that touch the bottom of the sump to limit the flow side to side?

Looks doable for a clever bloke.

Cheers, Pottsy

Touches or very close.

 

[pottsy]

Thanks Graeme. I kinda thought that to be the case..

swm405. Measurements would be wonderful if you can. One can never have too much information before embarking on a prototyping voyage!

Cheers, Pottsy.

 

[swm405]

Thanks Graeme. I kinda thought that to be the case..

swm405. Measurements would be wonderful if you can. One can never have too much information before embarking on a prototyping voyage!

Cheers, Pottsy.

Very happy to do so. Hopefully I can do today if I get home early enough. Cheers mate

 

[schlitzaugen]

Thanks Graeme. I kinda thought that to be the case..

swm405. Measurements would be wonderful if you can. One can never have too much information before embarking on a prototyping voyage!

Cheers, Pottsy.

If you want to make your own, the best thing you can do is get one of those comb like tools that can follow a contour precisely or use (like I did) lots of cardboard you cut into small sections, match a section of a curve (the bottom of the sump has many), stick it to a big piece and build the entire contour in small sections until you have the "ribs" you need to cut. Would be ideal to have another engine you can turn upside down to measure everything around the pump and the conrods and main bearing caps. To attach a contraption like that to the sump I used a sandwich sheet between the block and sump. I think the one pictured above uses the same idea.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Yes the pic shows that

 

[pottsy]

Been doing some CAD (Cardboard Aided Design - thanks Project Binky! ) on baffling the sump. Given that this car is intended primarily for road use, and the occasional fang, I don't see the necessity for going "full on" in terms of gated baffles and windage tray.

I like Peter T's design for the baffle under the pump and, with your permission Peter, plan to create my own version.

The other end I think I can adapt the concept of the Constella baffle (just touching the bottom with small cutouts) and perhaps use the two cast pillars to support it via straps and threading the top of the pillars.

I plan to have a small cutouts at the bottom of each unit to allow limited flow.

Am I on the right track here? All opinions will be taken on board, analysed, parsed, persused, and possibly adopted..

Cheers, Pottsy.

 

[swm405]

Been doing some CAD (Cardboard Aided Design - thanks Project Binky! ) on baffling the sump. Given that this car is intended primarily for road use, and the occasional fang, I don't see the necessity for going "full on" in terms of gated baffles and windage tray.

I like Peter T's design for the baffle under the pump and, with your permission Peter, plan to create my own version.

The other end I think I can adapt the concept of the Constella baffle (just touching the bottom with small cutouts) and perhaps use the two cast pillars to support it via straps and threading the top of the pillars.

I plan to have a small cutouts at the bottom of each unit to allow limited flow.

Am I on the right track here? All opinions will be taken on board, analysed, parsed, persused, and possibly adopted..

Cheers, Pottsy.

Checked mine out last night and it’s probably the most basic of the lot. A welded plate across with a small opening gate for flow. It was mentioned that the alloy is bad to weld but mine has taken well. The donor car was tarmac rallied so it works. What you’re doing looks fine mate.

 

[PeterT]

Checked mine out last night and it’s probably the most basic of the lot. A welded plate across with a small opening gate for flow. It was mentioned that the alloy is bad to weld but mine has taken well. The donor car was tarmac rallied so it works. What you’re doing looks fine mate.

Thanks. I try to do my best. You'll also notice the internal drain ribs have been notched to clear the pump baffle as per attached. The pump baffle keeps oil on the other side of the pickup.

 

[PeterT]

Here's a pic of a DFZ sump with an early mock up. Also included is the wall position.

It's still a lot of work for you, when in essence, all you're doing is reproducing an XU10 sump.

The pump baffle needs to be 13mm deeper than the one in my picture.

 

[AlexB]

It's still a lot of work for you, when in essence, all you're doing is reproducing an XU10 sump.

I'm curious if the circa 1998 1.8 XU7JP4 sump has any of these baffles or windage ?

 

[swm405]

Here's a pic of a DFZ sump with an early mock up. Also included is the wall position.

It's still a lot of work for you, when in essence, all you're doing is reproducing an XU10 sump.

The pump baffle needs to be 13mm deeper than the one in my picture.

That’s virtually identical to what I have Peter.

 

[PeterT]

I'm curious if the circa 1998 1.8 XU7JP4 sump has any of these baffles or windage ?

Different part numbers. I have no idea, as I've never opened a 1.8L.

 

[pottsy]

OK. The Bullet has been Bitten!

I've created a baffle for the gearbox end of the sump. I drilled and tapped the two bosses to M6 and welded on mounting tabs. The bolts have lock washers, but I'll also Loctite them before final assembly.

Please excuse my crappy welding. I find I'm a bit out of practice! In hindsight, I probably should have brazed, but there you go.

It fits neatly and nothing hits it. There's a smidgeon of clearance under the bottom edge so oil can still flow back and forth, just not in one big swoosh halfway round a corner.

Next is to fine tune the pump mounted baffle. Not an easy task as I really don't want to remove the pump. It's nearly there. Once I'm happy with the fit I'll remove all the paint and surface rust before Loctiting the mounting bolts back into the pump.

Material is 1mm steel sheet gleaned from old Brownbuilt shelving (hence the grey paint).

I'm confident of success. Thanks for all the help provided.

Cheers, Pottsy.

 

[pottsy]

Well I'm now baffled, but in a nice way.

The sump mounted baffle is fixed in place by 2 M6 screws with shakeproof washer and Loctite.

The pump mounted baffle is mounted to the pump body by 4 of the screws. I had the pump body off to clean and check and all of the screws are now re-installed with Loctite.

The sump offers up to the block without anything scraping or touching moving bits.

Next will see the new sump gasket sealed and bolted on.

All good. Taken a while but there are other things in life than Peugeot Projects!

Here's a couple more snaps for your edification and delight.

Cheers, Pottsy.