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French suppliers would be for LHD.
'62 404 clutch won't fully disengage
- Thread starter swift-au
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French suppliers would be for LHD.
Yeah, true. No reason they would hang on to NOS for RHD cars I suppose.
Anyway, given up on NOS and not having much luck with used. Two Oz wreckers don't have any... one even laughed and said "Good luck". Still waiting to hear back from a couple more.
I guess the splines are "handed" for RHD and LHD placement. I wonder if a NOS 2120.21 could be machined to work (new splines).
Yes, straight swap. But not the BA7.
Thank goodness, because I bought it already and will go and pick it up this morning. I might try and swap over just the shaft, because at least I know the gearbox in the car actually works. And I'm leaning towards removing the engine as opposed to the gearbox.. it looks a little quicker (or at least it's something I'm more used to)... but probably six of one and half a dozen of the other...
Engine removal has always been my method of choice.
If I read your intentions correctly and you are thinking of doing a complete gearbox swap, it is not that straight forward. This is due to the difference in clutch fork operation. The C3 is mechanical and the lever is operated by a shaft on the driver's side of the gearbox and the the BA7 is hydraulic and the fork is operated by a hydraulic slave cylinder on the bottom left side. This is where the memory is vague, but I do recall having to weld a pivot point (for the use of a better term) on the lower section of the inner front right guard to accommodate a linkage which is different between the two models.
Will look for an image in the parts manual, to give you a visual understanding.
Cheers,
Dan
Found them.
BA7.
Within the circled section, there is a cube type rubber block and a cover plate that is bolted to the threaded section/bolt visible at rear of the circled image. The threaded bolt/s is on the plate that needs to be welded into place as mentioned earlier.
C3. This what you would have on the the C3 Box, but a RHD version.
If I read your intentions correctly and you are thinking of doing a complete gearbox swap, it is not that straight forward. This is due to the difference in clutch fork operation. The C3 is mechanical and the lever is operated by a shaft on the driver's side of the gearbox and the the BA7 is hydraulic and the fork is operated by a hydraulic slave cylinder on the bottom left side. This is where the memory is vague, but I do recall having to weld a pivot point (for the use of a better term) on the lower section of the inner front right guard to accommodate a linkage which is different between the two models.
Will look for an image in the parts manual, to give you a visual understanding.
Cheers,
Dan
Found them.
BA7.
Within the circled section, there is a cube type rubber block and a cover plate that is bolted to the threaded section/bolt visible at rear of the circled image. The threaded bolt/s is on the plate that needs to be welded into place as mentioned earlier.
C3. This what you would have on the the C3 Box, but a RHD version.
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The BA7 and C3 have different ratios. So it's necessary to swap the diff as well.
I'd check out if the 403 clutch shaft is the same as the the 404.
I'd check out if the 403 clutch shaft is the same as the the 404.
Have you tried Pugwreck in Melbourne. they hang on to everything and may have NOS.
Thanks for the details Dan, but hoping to avoid a C3 -> BA7 conversion. I don't mind a mechanical clutch, and was thinking "one less thing to go wrong"... until of course Mike clued me in on the infamous shaft cracking situation with the C3's, of which I am a victim. Anyway, I now have a late model C3 box, so just have to decide whether I'll swap just the shaft or the entire box. The box in the car is certainly noisy in every gear excepting 4th, but I might find the replacement is even worse or that the synchro's are shot... ahh well, I guess there's only one way to find out 
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They both have 1 to 1 4th gears and all sedan 404s have 4.2 to 1 diffs, thinking of C2 to C3 perhaps?
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This is the output shaft, no bigger but a smaller diameter bolt holding on the universal joint, so more metal thickness. Change the whole box across, pretty sure the gears are different ratios. So the box is noisy as well? This is the Adelaide car? None of this was mentioned in the ad!
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Thanks Dan. And yes, I agree that keeping things essentially original is worthwhile. I guess if I'd really wanted a 1968+ 404, I would have bought one. Personally I'm happy with mechanical clutch and non-power-assisted drum brakes. Years ago I had a 1967 Valiant with essentially the same setup (right down to having a 45 degree slanted engine) -- the biggest difference with the 404 is that everything is a little smaller and lighter. Yes, I do remember a few occasions when towing a fully loaded trailer and having to stand on the brake pedal when some git suddenly decided to turn out of a corner in front of me etc, but hey, that's half the fun of it
I think I'm going to pull the rear end out and have a good look at both boxes side by side, and make sure everything looks like it's going to go back in the same place before I get too excited
Re the noise, it has what I would describe as a typical reverse gear whine in every gear except 4th. Doesn't bother me massively (though I did tend to leave it in 4th on the drive home from the Sydney depot -- it has a surprising amount of torque for a tiny motor), but I might try my "new" box in the hopes it's a little better.
There's also an intermittent rattle at idle that wasn't in the ad (yes, it's the Adelaide car), that I suspect is clutch related but won't know for sure until I get it apart. It does seem to be slightly less when the clutch pedal is depressed, but since the clutch is not fully disengaging it's not really a fair test.
Chances are the guy who sold it didn't realise the clutch shaft had been sticky taped (hose clamped) together, but in any event, it's an easy enough fix I suppose -- just not one that I really wanted to have to worry about right now, because I'm under the pump to get it ready for blue-slip inspection in NSW (SA rego runs out in a couple of weeks, so after that even to drive it to an inspection station is a risk because I'll have no insurance on it).
Hopefully there won't be too many more surprises, but worst case if I can't get it registered then I'll have all the time in the world to strip it completely and do a full resto (or more likely sit and contemplate why on earth I decided to buy another old car <vbg>)
I went to drain the gearbox today in preparation for removal, and given recent events, was not really surprised to discover that it was bone dry. Here's hoping the replacement box is OK. I haven't dared check the diff yet -- it doesn't appear to be leaking (right now), which would normally be a good thing, but in the case of this car I hold grave fears.
very unlikely BA7 has a flat flywheel while yourc3 has a well that the clutch sits in
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Correct kit has 9 springs in pressure plate, not a diaphragm. I would buy the kit from you if it turns out to be BA7 as I have two cars with BA7 clutches. Still have a few C3 clutches in good condition. Surprising the box was completely dry, must have leaked out through the drain washer?
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Discovered the n/s frame rail is badly rusted (held together only by layers of dirt) so now I'll need to find a local body shop to take care of that. I've no idea how the car was even registered in SA -- clearly no chance of getting it registered in NSW in such a state. The rear jack supports are also completely missing (do they rust that easily?!) The amount of oil leaking from the engine also likely wouldn't pass a routine inspection. Might just be the sump, but probably also the rear main, so the engine will have to come out too. Considering just putting it back together and driving it off a cliff, but suspect the entire car would probably break into two before I could get it to the nearest cliff
Graham -- Yes, of course I've got completely the wrong clutch kit -- despite the ad saying it would suit 404's from 1960-66. Maybe I can swap it for some C3 bits. Even all the usual French sources don't appear to sell pressure plates for the C3. I guess nobody makes them anymore.
Graham -- Yes, of course I've got completely the wrong clutch kit -- despite the ad saying it would suit 404's from 1960-66. Maybe I can swap it for some C3 bits. Even all the usual French sources don't appear to sell pressure plates for the C3. I guess nobody makes them anymore.