2CV Gearbox question

pottsy

Citroen Loony & BMC Nutter.
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Greetings fellow Citroen Loonies. Gaston, the amazing 2CV is getting a bit of TLC ahead of him leaping over a smaller ditch to Tassie for the Cit-In. I reckoned that he is due for a full checkover since he's not really had a lot done to him since 2017.

What also prompted this was an incident recently. While rowing along between 2nd and 3rd as you do (I've been known to call him a four wheeled rowing machine! :( ) I noticed that the synchro into 3rd was pretty much out to lunch. While I could 'drive through' it with the old double de-clutching skills, I pondered why this might be so and thought perhaps I needed to delve into the spares stash for some whirly bits.

However, as a first point of call, I used my handy dandy dipstick creation to check the oil level , I found it to be quite low. In addition the box was very oily all over and there's evidence of oil loss all over the bottom of the car. (No risk of rust around there!)

Restoring the oil level to where it wanted to be also restored the synchro operation back to it's usual smoothness.

In any case, I wanted to explore the possible reasons for sharing the oil with the landscape so out came the noisy and whirly bits for a forensic investigation. While it's all out the crankshaft will get new seals and any other bits that may need attention.

The box of cogs was first on the agenda so off came the covers. So far, all the geary bits appear as good a new, the drive shaft seals aren't obviously leaking (but will get replaced anyway) and there were no obvious sources.

However, in cleaning up the covers I discovered a tiny (about 1mm) hole in the top cover. I'll swear I've never noticed it before, but it was actually blocked up with the gasket sealant I used 6 years ago. It seems to be situated above a void beside the selector rods at the clutch end. I've de-clogged it and will take care this doesn't happen again, but I'm curious to know if, in fact, this is supposed to be a breather to prevent pressurisation of the gearbox? If it is, and it was blocked, I imagine it may be the root cause of the aforementioned sharing.

If enlightenment can be forthcoming my gratitude will be immense. I plan to reassemble and re-align the crown wheel to pinion clearance tomorrow before buttoning up the beast. The sealant I'm using is "Corteco HT300C" silicone sealing paste. This is the stuff recommended for metal to metal on sumps etc. in Peugeots so at least it should talk the same language as Gaston.

I await with bated breath the denouement!

Cheers, Pottsy
 

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I'm not familiar with that goo, but if it is the stuff used on Peugeot HDI sumps it sets like concrete and needs to be cut out.
 
Greetings fellow Citroen Loonies. Gaston, the amazing 2CV is getting a bit of TLC ahead of him leaping over a smaller ditch to Tassie for the Cit-In. I reckoned that he is due for a full checkover since he's not really had a lot done to him since 2017.

What also prompted this was an incident recently. While rowing along between 2nd and 3rd as you do (I've been known to call him a four wheeled rowing machine! :( ) I noticed that the synchro into 3rd was pretty much out to lunch. While I could 'drive through' it with the old double de-clutching skills, I pondered why this might be so and thought perhaps I needed to delve into the spares stash for some whirly bits.

However, as a first point of call, I used my handy dandy dipstick creation to check the oil level , I found it to be quite low. In addition the box was very oily all over and there's evidence of oil loss all over the bottom of the car. (No risk of rust around there!)

Restoring the oil level to where it wanted to be also restored the synchro operation back to it's usual smoothness.

In any case, I wanted to explore the possible reasons for sharing the oil with the landscape so out came the noisy and whirly bits for a forensic investigation. While it's all out the crankshaft will get new seals and any other bits that may need attention.

The box of cogs was first on the agenda so off came the covers. So far, all the geary bits appear as good a new, the drive shaft seals aren't obviously leaking (but will get replaced anyway) and there were no obvious sources.

However, in cleaning up the covers I discovered a tiny (about 1mm) hole in the top cover. I'll swear I've never noticed it before, but it was actually blocked up with the gasket sealant I used 6 years ago. It seems to be situated above a void beside the selector rods at the clutch end. I've de-clogged it and will take care this doesn't happen again, but I'm curious to know if, in fact, this is supposed to be a breather to prevent pressurisation of the gearbox? If it is, and it was blocked, I imagine it may be the root cause of the aforementioned sharing.

If enlightenment can be forthcoming my gratitude will be immense. I plan to reassemble and re-align the crown wheel to pinion clearance tomorrow before buttoning up the beast. The sealant I'm using is "Corteco HT300C" silicone sealing paste. This is the stuff recommended for metal to metal on sumps etc. in Peugeots so at least it should talk the same language as Gaston.

I await with bated breath the denouement!

Cheers, Pottsy
Hello Pottsy
I also have noticed oil disappearing from the "box of speed" in my 2CV (Daffie)
Having recently replaced out put seals etc still happening !
So out with the torch and hey presto see the wee hole !! Give it a poke with a suitable bit of stiff wire - clogged
Now cleared , will see what happens
All hail the great P
 
Oddly, if it's a breather, there's no mention in the 1971 manual or in these drawings.

2cv-gears.png


cover.png
 
bloody breathers .... 2strokes won't work .... slasher gearbox spewing oil from all its seals ..... Yep, breathers every time. I'd never have thought of searching for this on a cars gearbox though!
 
Why not ? The mud plugging 4WD brotherhood fit them on diffs with a long tube to increase wading depth.
A breather to equalize pressure is probably a good idea.
 
Every gearbox has a breather, diffs, transfer cases, and all other similar mechanical devices that get hot and then cold. As said the 4WD brigade fit hoses on their's to prevent them sucking in water as they cool down and the air contracts during water crossings. Normally the gearbox breather is small and not noticeable as it is at the top and goes into a trap inside where the oil will not get out easily and dust etc will not get into the oil.
Some of the famous PSA auto gearboxes might suck in water if the driver goes through deep water on the road and it washes over the gearbox top where the breather is located.
Jaahn
 
17048610947011132670144741900096.jpg
'68 ID21F centre of pic

17048612848912253639996567267662.jpg
'63 ID19, top of pic in the gloom

These were not just a hole, but a screw-in unit with screen and 4 external holes to avoid blocking.
 
I know I've mentioned it before......
So this is just a reminder......

The universal sealant for engine and gearbox assembly, with or without a paper gasket
17048619983837984436969189504934.jpg
Not for head gaskets,
Not for exhaust flanges,
But everything else..... yes.

For head gaskets, nothing or a VERY light spray of silver gal.

For exhaust flanges, grease or a smear of RTV silicone.

In 45 years of Citroen mechanic-ing, I've never had a gasket failure, or loss of seal where I've used the above.
 
Does it became a hard to break adhesive? The maker describes it as an adhesive. They glue artificial hips in with methyl methacrylate.
 
Don't know anything about the 2CV transmission, but to me having a 1mm hole as a breather on the top cover is just asking to be blocked up.

Below is a pic of a Renault transaxle showing the breather, maybe a hole could be drilled and tapped to fit such a breather to the 2CV transmission.

Just my :2cents: worth.


IMG_5646.JPG
 
Does it became a hard to break adhesive? The maker describes it as an adhesive. They glue artificial hips in with methyl methacrylate.
Referring to Loctite 515?
No, it sets anaerobic-ally to form a stiff plastic gel. It is not really adhesive, as it pulls apart quite easily, and scrapes off surfaces easily and cleanly.
 
I'm a big fan of anaerobic sealants. They make a lot of sense to me. That being said, I used to use Loctite 515 way back, nowadays I find it hard to obtain, or maybe I just shop in the wrong spots. Either way, I find the Permatex anaerobic product works fine as well. That being said, the Corteco silicone came well recommended and it's worked fine on No 1 Son's 205 GTi sump so far.

Getting back slightly to the original gist of my post, I think I today found the second cause for my oil escapage. The drive shaft seal on one side looks torn, so it may have been an issue, especially if the box had built up some pressure through having it's hole stopped up.

As far as drilling and tapping for a "proper" breather, I may explore that, but, now that I know the hole exists it can become a regular point of checking and poking. Sort of fits in with the basic simplicity of the car I suppose.

Cheers, Pottsy
 
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I know I've mentioned it before......
So this is just a reminder......

The universal sealant for engine and gearbox assembly, with or without a paper gasket
View attachment 234181
Not for head gaskets,
Not for exhaust flanges,
But everything else..... yes.

For head gaskets, nothing or a VERY light spray of silver gal.

For exhaust flanges, grease or a smear of RTV silicone.

In 45 years of Citroen mechanic-ing, I've never had a gasket failure, or loss of seal where I've used the above.
the coppermax silicon is the only thing that seems to seal the shitboxes exhaust manfolds up ..... It still eventually starts chuffing again though.

34249LOC.jpg


Peratex anaerobic sealant is often cheaper than 515 ... I'm sure its the identical stuff
 
Wow Shane. What's that?
Servo acting direct on the calipers? Possibly a full auto?
Looks like it would be extra squeezy in a GS.
Cheers, Pottsy
 
Has it sold? If you click the link, its an RO80 driveline. :) I thought it was pretty cool myself. What is the likelyhood it would actually run .... and if it did, run for any length of time :unsure:
 
I thought it might be a GS Birotor, but googling, I was surprised to find that the Birotors were east-west!
 
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