205 GTi vs. 306 S16

[XTC]

too appreciative of it? frankly, i think that article totally missed the point!
i was cringing and almost embaressed after reading it!
obviously they didnt drive the 205gti.
that chicks gti is a s1 - i thought all '89 gtis were s2.

MOST people when talking about a 205GTi are thinking about a drive they had in it 15+ years ago (except todays owners of course) and they tend to speak of it as if looking through rose coloured retrospecticles ... so no wonder they get it all wrong.

- XTC206 -

 

[N5GTi6]

MOST people when talking about a 205GTi are thinking about a drive they had in it 15+ years ago (except todays owners of course) and they tend to speak of it as if looking through rose coloured retrospecticles ... so no wonder they get it all wrong.

- XTC206 -

HaHA - this is Soooooooo wrong. I guess if you haven't actually owned and lived with a 205 then you might have this opinion, so it's a dodgy comment to make in the first place, but I can assure you that with my 205, which I owned less than 5 years ago, my memories are pretty vivid.

I can assure you that the standard lardy 306GTi6 has no-where near the same rebound damping in it's shocks as a standard 205GTi for instance. The 306 wallows where a 205GTi is taught and well controlled. The weight of the 306 is the greatest hindrance here of course.

I still say - from the experience of owning each of them for a period of more than 3 years for each - buy the 205 ! No rose coloured glasses here - the 205 will take at least twice the maintenance of the 306, but has the potential to supply twice the fun factor.

 

[parry]

I support N5GTI6 as I previously owned a 2000 Audi Quattro turbo which I purchaced new for 65k, it was a very quick car and had all the features.

I then sold it for a 205 s3 and now own a 205 s2 track car, no regretts and I get mor fun out of the 205's.

The audi was just boring and it did everything right, the 205 is raw and is mor of a drivers car.

 

[XTC]

Comes down to which one you want to LIVE with .. living with a car is far more then just the FUN factor ... you've got safety (airbags etc), accomodation (head room, seats etc), storage and capacity (do you have kids, take large loads), resale value, insurance, finance costs, fuel economy, spare parts availability, km's already on the car, luxuries included (eg power this, power that) etc etc.

You can't just say one performs better then the other .. it's a lot more complex then that ... if it was that simple why not drive a kit Westfield? A sh!t load more fun then any pug .. I can tell you !

And although the original question was leaning towards a "performance bent" other values are important. As tempted as I am, I wouldn't buy a car these days without airbags or ABS .. and before you mention "I can brake better then any ABS system" It's been proven that the majority of people can't.
And with passive safety (eg airbags) they are protecting you against the OTHER idiots on the road, not just yourself. I know which one I'd rather carry my wife and kids in. Ultimately the only valuable thing you possess (forget money, forget cars, forget assets) .. is your life.

- XTC206 -

 

[XTC]

HaHA - this is Soooooooo wrong. I guess if you haven't actually owned and lived with a 205 then you might have this opinion, so it's a dodgy comment to make in the first place, but I can assure you that with my 205, which I owned less than 5 years ago, my memories are pretty vivid.

I said most .. not all ... and I was mainly referring to the journos who write all the stuff about 205's when they are remembering the glory days from a single once off drive ... owners may have a different opinion.

I still say - from the experience of owning each of them for a period of more than 3 years for each - buy the 205 ! No rose coloured glasses here - the 205 will take at least twice the maintenance of the 306, but has the potential to supply twice the fun factor.

So why do you have a GTi-6 and not a 205GTi ?

- XTC206 -

 

[N5GTi6]

I said most .. not all ... and I was mainly referring to the journos who write all the stuff about 205's when they are remembering the glory days from a single once off drive ... owners may have a different opinion.

So why do you have a GTi-6 and not a 205GTi ?

- XTC206 -

Well, I've had a 205. Now I have a 306. A change is as good as a holiday etc etc. I loved my 205 when I owned it and I currently love the 306, but some day I will move on from that as well. If Peugeot brought out a genuine 307GTi I might very well buy one of those as well. I like the look of the XSI but the performance just doesn't do it for me.

As for the comment 'if it was that simple why not drive a kit Westfield?' - well this doesn't help the originator of this thread one bit since he asked 'which is better for the money, a series 3 205 GTi or a 306 S16 ?' If I had my choice I'd be driving a Fiat 124 Spyder - BS series with a 2litre engine, 4.3 diff, late series 5 speed (longer 5th gear), CS bonnet with the lovely 'power' bulges, Cromodora 4 spoke wheels (CN30?) but that doesn't help the person who originally started this thing does it so I won't mention it.

I answered this question from the point of view of the thread originator. He asked whether spending 10K on a 205 was better value than 10K on a 306. I've owned both, and gave my feedback stating that the 205 was the better choice.

Personal choices such as air bags, crumple zones, climate control etc are really up to the buyer to decide upon.......

 

[Pug307]

Comes down to which one you want to LIVE with .. living with a car is far more then just the FUN factor ... you've got safety (airbags etc), accomodation (head room, seats etc), storage and capacity (do you have kids, take large loads), resale value, insurance, finance costs, fuel economy, spare parts availability, km's already on the car, luxuries included (eg power this, power that) etc etc.

You can't just say one performs better then the other .. it's a lot more complex then that ... if it was that simple why not drive a kit Westfield? A sh!t load more fun then any pug .. I can tell you !

And although the original question was leaning towards a "performance bent" other values are important. As tempted as I am, I wouldn't buy a car these days without airbags or ABS .. and before you mention "I can brake better then any ABS system" It's been proven that the majority of people can't.
And with passive safety (eg airbags) they are protecting you against the OTHER idiots on the road, not just yourself. I know which one I'd rather carry my wife and kids in. Ultimately the only valuable thing you possess (forget money, forget cars, forget assets) .. is your life.

- XTC206 -

Am I in a Volvo owner's meeting :wink2:

 

[XTC]

I answered this question from the point of view of the thread originator. He asked whether spending 10K on a 205 was better value than 10K on a 306. I've owned both, and gave my feedback stating that the 205 was the better choice.

Better value based on what .... may I quote ....

For $10K - get the 205.
Much better introduction to 'Hot Hatches' in the handling and performance stakes, although you'll have to be prepared for it being a bit fragile - nothing to do with it's age mind you - they were like that from new..

Based on 1 selection criteria ... do I see a mention of anything else ... ?

Personal choices such as air bags, crumple zones, climate control etc are really up to the buyer to decide upon.......

That's my point ... you can't possibly say the 205 is better then the 306 or VICE-VERSA without taking into consideration ALL the needs requirements, purely basing on what handles better I'm not questioning you .. the 205 is more fun in THAT regard, but is that enough ? In your opinion YES, in my opinion NO. Wouldn't it be better to do a comparison based on all factors of the car ??? That would be more useful. Here's some.

205GTi (1994).
15" Alloy Wheels, 4 Speaker Stereo, Air Conditioning, Central Locking, Disc Brakes Front Ventilated, Disc Brakes Rear Solid, Power Steering, Power Windows - Front only, Radio Cassette, Tacho, 1905cc, 88kW, Price new $33,730.

306 S16 (1996)
ABS (Antilock Brakes), Air Cond. - Climate Control, Airbag - Drivers, Alloy Wheels, Central Locking - Remote/Keyless, Disc Brakes Front Ventilated, Disc Brakes Rear Solid, Fog Lamps, Power Door Mirrors, Power Windows - Front & Rear, 1998cc, 111kw, Price New $39,850.

The rest here ...

http://www.redbook.com.au/VehicleSearch/CompSpecs.asp?firstkey=PEUG94AD&key=PEUG96AE&veh=y

I'm sure you can find other comparisons.

405dude best of luck in finding the vehicle that SUITS YOU (and all your circumstances). Don't take our words for it ... go and drive both, sit in both and test both out, we're sure you'll be happy with either, but maybe for different reasons.

- XTC206 -

 

[orestes]

No I think the S3 was the first 205 GTi with power steering, Australia or otherwise. Of course I'm not a died in the wool 205 expert, but I'm pretty sure that is right

thats weird why did they drop the power steering in thre GTI when cars like the automatic got it, i agree that without the power steering it gives you a better feel for the car on the road but personally i prefer the power steering

 

[N5GTi6]

Better value based on what .... may I quote ....

Based on 1 selection criteria ... do I see a mention of anything else ... ?

That's my point ... you can't possibly say the 205 is better then the 306 or VICE-VERSA without taking into consideration ALL the needs requirements, purely basing on what handles better I'm not questioning you .. the 205 is more fun in THAT regard, but is that enough ? In your opinion YES, in my opinion NO. Wouldn't it be better to do a comparison based on all factors of the car ??? That would be more useful. Here's some.

205GTi (1994).
15" Alloy Wheels, 4 Speaker Stereo, Air Conditioning, Central Locking, Disc Brakes Front Ventilated, Disc Brakes Rear Solid, Power Steering, Power Windows - Front only, Radio Cassette, Tacho, 1905cc, 88kW, Price new $33,730.

306 S16 (1996)
ABS (Antilock Brakes), Air Cond. - Climate Control, Airbag - Drivers, Alloy Wheels, Central Locking - Remote/Keyless, Disc Brakes Front Ventilated, Disc Brakes Rear Solid, Fog Lamps, Power Door Mirrors, Power Windows - Front & Rear, 1998cc, 111kw, Price New $39,850.

The rest here ...

http://www.redbook.com.au/VehicleSearch/CompSpecs.asp?firstkey=PEUG94AD&key=PEUG96AE&veh=y

I'm sure you can find other comparisons.

405dude best of luck in finding the vehicle that SUITS YOU (and all your circumstances). Don't take our words for it ... go and drive both, sit in both and test both out, we're sure you'll be happy with either, but maybe for different reasons.

- XTC206 -

Well, I guess we've come back to the same point again. As the question wasn't about me buying the vehicle, I didn't answer as if it was me buying the vehicle. Sure quoting lots of stats you've gleaned from various internet sites is interesting and might impress your friends, but it doesn't give a choice based on actually driving the cars and owning them. All you're quoting is semantics - you're telling 405dude that your basis for purchase is better than everyone elses - it's not - it's just different.

I didn't pay $33K for my 205 and 405dude won't be either - he's quoted that he wants to spend $10K.405dude is looking at paying the same cash for two different potentially 5-18 YO Pug's, and I really think he'd be better off with the 205. The 205 is less complex, less likely to fail than an old model 306, slightly easier to work on / maintain, will be easier and cheaper to find parts for blah blah. I really don't think anyone could find a 306 in genuinely better condition for $10K than a 205. You're looking at buying into the second hand market where choice of colour for instance is limited, and a purchase decision will just as easily be governed by individual vehicle condition / K's travelled / maintance history / owner attitude etc. Whether he can actually find a car in the condition which will make him happy is probably more important on a second hand car than whether it has ABS or not.

In your ownership experience how have you found the 205's handling / brakes / seat comfort / economy / interior space / reliability / looks / replacement parts prices / seat of the pants feel / joy of ownership level etc etc compared to the 306? Don't tell me - a few stats off the web right?

As per most 205 / 306 comparo's we seem to keep coming back to the same point - you offer the 306 as your choice and I offer the 205. Never the twain shall meet, hey?

 

[pugjet]

MOST people when talking about a 205GTi are thinking about a drive they had in it 15+ years ago (except todays owners of course) and they tend to speak of it as if looking through rose coloured retrospecticles ... so no wonder they get it all wrong.

- XTC206 -

hehehe... (followed by grrrr.).

yeah, im not talking about the myriad of drivers remeniscing re their 205gti experience 15+ yrs ago that you speak of - im referring to recent magazine comparos e.g. classic cars, EVO... to name just two - and testimonials from current 205gti drivers!:doh:

yes, like others whove responded to your post, ive also owned a 306s16 - and i know what i'd rather drive/own.:wink2:

some prefer to eat marshmallows and drive 206gtis! :banana: :burnboun: ugplak: !



ahihi...

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Well, I guess we've come back to the same point again. As the question wasn't about me buying the vehicle, I didn't answer as if it was me buying the vehicle. Sure quoting lots of stats you've gleaned from various internet sites is interesting and might impress your friends, but it doesn't give a choice based on actually driving the cars and owning them. All you're quoting is semantics - you're telling 405dude that your basis for purchase is better than everyone elses - it's not - it's just different.

I didn't pay $33K for my 205 and 405dude won't be either - he's quoted that he wants to spend $10K.405dude is looking at paying the same cash for two different potentially 5-18 YO Pug's, and I really think he'd be better off with the 205. The 205 is less complex, less likely to fail than an old model 306, slightly easier to work on / maintain, will be easier and cheaper to find parts for blah blah. I really don't think anyone could find a 306 in genuinely better condition for $10K than a 205. You're looking at buying into the second hand market where choice of colour for instance is limited, and a purchase decision will just as easily be governed by individual vehicle condition / K's travelled / maintance history / owner attitude etc. Whether he can actually find a car in the condition which will make him happy is probably more important on a second hand car than whether it has ABS or not.

In your ownership experience how have you found the 205's handling / brakes / seat comfort / economy / interior space / reliability / looks / replacement parts prices / seat of the pants feel / joy of ownership level etc etc compared to the 306? Don't tell me - a few stats off the web right?

As per most 205 / 306 comparo's we seem to keep coming back to the same point - you offer the 306 as your choice and I offer the 205. Never the twain shall meet, hey?

I would have thought it would a lot easier to find parts for the 306, heaps more sold.

Graham Wallis

 

[Warwick]

Reginald...... 89 regsistered 205's can be S1's.

Peter..... An average retail price for an S16 is more than $10000. $13000 plus I would say.

What would I rather drive. A 205.
What would I rather own. An Xsi 8V or Mi16 (S1)would be better than an S16, as long as there was a couple of grand in the kitty to make it go quicker.
205. More fun, less comfort and less class.

 

[XTC]

Sure quoting lots of stats you've gleaned from various internet sites is interesting and might impress your friends

Resorting to cheap shots ... impressive. :nownow:

Don't tell me - a few stats off the web right?

Ditto ... (Strike 2)
Tell me - what part of this bit (and can't believe I will quote myself) did you NOT understand ?

"you can't possibly say the 205 is better then the 306 or VICE-VERSA without taking into consideration ALL the needs requirements, purely basing on what handles better I'm not questioning you .. the 205 is more fun in THAT regard, but is that enough ?

Right from the start I've been saying that 10K and performance alone is not enough to decide on .... if you think it is .. good on ya ...

As per most 205 / 306 comparo's we seem to keep coming back to the same point - you offer the 306 as your choice

Please show me where I said this ... ????? I'll shut up then. - didn't think so.
I'll repeat again ....

405dude best of luck in finding the vehicle that SUITS YOU (and all your circumstances). Don't take our words for it ... go and drive both, sit in both and test both out, we're sure you'll be happy with either, but maybe for different reasons.

405dude let us know what you decide ... and when you get it .. I hear there's a nice 205 for sale here ...http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/peugeot/205/sydney/detail.aspx?id=1572249

- XTC206 -

 

[XTC]

some prefer to eat marshmallows and drive 206gtis!

Seems like I hit a raw nerve here .. bag a 205* around here and the monsters come out (*which if you'd bother to read I never actaully did - keeps falling on deaf ears) ... Some of you guys get so wound up ... you know what they say "the more you deny it - the more likely it's true"

- XTC206 -

 

[XTC]

Oh .. I forgot to mention .... happy B'day N5GTi6 ..

- XTC206 -

 

[pugjet]

Seems like I hit a raw nerve here .. bag a 205* around here and the monsters come out (*which if you'd bother to read I never actaully did - keeps falling on deaf ears) ... Some of you guys get so wound up ... you know what they say "the more you deny it - the more likely it's true"

- XTC206 -

and some might say...

those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.:nownow: :headbang:



stop hogging the marshmallows and pass 'em down for frign sake!

oh yeah happy birthday, N5GTI6!

cheers ,

wokness monster from chinatown

 

[XTC]

those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.:nownow: :headbang:

42 ...

- XTC206 -

 

[U Turn]

42 ...

- XTC206 -

Of course I am one of the few here that knows exactly what 42 means
XTC you master-baiter you! I hear what you're saying man, it all depends on what the person wants, raw edge thrills or some refinement to the grin. I'm assuming that 405dude has an uhmm 405 so he's probably already got the refinement. If I had a nice refined 405, I know I'd personally want the raw edge thrills of the 205. Though if he's looking to buy as a replacement car for the 405, then the 306 might be a better option. Like you said, he should drive each and decide. Also, as N5gti6 said, a sub-10k S16 in decent nick would be rare. Though having said that, a mate at work just bought a 1995 S16 with just over 100 thou' kms for 9500, though it need 1800 bucks of work done to it in the form of coils, bushes, front shocks and all the little trim things etc. It's in fantastic condition now though. Depends how long one wants to shop around for and considering S16's for sale are relatively rare.

I envy those with a 205 AND a 306. Heck I wouldn't mind one of those gti180's either, if they're a marshmallow, they've definitely been given the roasting treatment.

Happy b'day N5gti6. btw I agree about the '6 feeling slightly underdamped on the rebound, but weirdly enough it seems to only exhibit it at low speeds. It actually seems to get better with speed, I dunno if it has anything to do with the shocks variable damping with travel or if it's just my imagination.

 

[405dude]

Thanks everyone, sounds like the 205 is the car for me. Although i'll take each for a drive before i make my final decision, and ive got a year to do that so thats long enough to find a decent example. Other than that the 405 still goes well for now.