205 gti mi16 swap questions.

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Peppa

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Tadpole
Tadpole
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I want to do a 205 gti mi16 swap.

My mechanic who I am close friends with has agreed to help me but he has no idea about how to do the swap.

I found an Mi16 long block complete motor for sale, 220,000 km it has no hoses and no ecu. The wiring loom is apparently crappy but will send pics when i get it through.

While i attempt to hold myself off from buying this to put into my 205 GTI I have some questions about the conversion.

I can find a few ECUs on ebay, one example is:

Peugeot ECU Control Module Unit 405 MI16 #: 0261200161 BOSCH $130 USD including shipping

What is the difference with the ECU models and do all of them work, any issues to look out for, do some work better than others.

Ideally I wait until I find a complete engine with ECU and loom but would this suffice if the loom is of satisfactory standard.
Does anyone know the rough cost of redoing the rings, crank bearings and head gasket for failsafe on an mi16. Any other seals etc common to need doing.

Now for what i know and what I want to know.

What i know:

- I will need to make a block to angle the exhaust down to clear the bulkhead, currently sorting this.
- I will need to grind the radiator shroud to clear the inlet manifold.

What i want to know:

- Are the engine, ecu and loom the only required things for the swap, that is.
  • All the cooling system of the original 1.9 8v plugs straight in.
  • All the other stuff fit straight in?
    • Does anyone have a coolant pipe diagram?
  • What modifications do i need to make to the 405 Mi16 loom (what cables need to be spliced into it)
  • Will the exhaust manifold bolt onto the original 205 exhaust once angled correctly.

Given I have the engine prepared with radiator shroud ground and exhaust angling block ready, ecu, wiring loom ready, is this a job that can be done over a weekend with myself (tinkerer, mainly motorbikes) and a skilled mechanic working together.

Also, if anyone who lives in Brisbane or the Gold Coast has done the swap before let me know if you can help for $.

Regards,

Chris
 
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Have a read of the Thread about 8 down from your thread: (Mi-16 engine swap to 205Si). Mostly applies to your project. :)
 
I have read through that but it doesn't answer the main things I don't know.

Also, still calling on any mechanics or anyone in Brisbane who would like to assist with the swap.

Cheers
 
I have never done this, so can' really help, but I can tell you the engine management loom in a 205GTI is completely separate from everything else. I would hazard a guess this is the case with the Mi16 and most likely any other car. There are only a handful of senders tied to the gauges that need to be reviewed/accommodated but I am sure you can figure out how to do that. That means that if you get the electronic management and associated wiring with your engine you should be alright. I have here the entire management off a 405 SRI (computer+loom) and it's the same story. Different engine, but the principle is the same.
 
No, this is not a job that can be done over a weekend. Not even close.

You couldn't do the wiring loom in a weekend.
 
Richard W said:
No, this is not a job that can be done over a weekend. Not even close.

You couldn't do the wiring loom in a weekend.
Click to expand...
Im planning on using he existing mi16 loom and ecu.
The job in a weekend is assuming I have everything ready, that is, exhaust angling plate, radiator ground down original ecu and loom.
 
Peppa said:
Im planning on using he existing mi16 loom and ecu.
The job in a weekend is assuming I have everything ready, that is, exhaust angling plate, radiator ground down original ecu and loom.
Click to expand...

You clearly have no concept yet of how much work is involved to do this conversion. Even if you have a good Mi16 loom and ECU, you still have to modify the loom to mate with the 205 loom. That job on its own will take you a full weekend.

If you already have a 205GTI, you currently have a car that is worth something. If you pull it apart with no real idea of the work involved to do this conversion, you will end up with a butchered unfinished project car worth very little.

For what it is worth, here is a list of things that need to be done to put an XU10J4RS (GTi6 engine - essentially a slightly updated XU10 Mi16 engine) into a 205 GTI. Whether you use an XU9 or XU10 Mi16 motor, most of this will still apply to your project: https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/i...6-xu10j4rs-conversion-guide-checklist.117605/

The fact that you don't even know what engine you want to use or, presumably, the differences between them rings alarm bells for me.
 
And to mate the loom you will need a copy of the haynes manual and an understanding of electrical to test each as you go, been there done that.
 
Richard is right and this site bears testimony to that. A lot of cars have ended up unfinished projects. Some are still under work today, though have been started years ago.

Not sayin' you shouldn't do it, but in my opinion, the 205GTI can not take that much power. It can't even deal with the power it had from factory judging by how many cars have developed stress fractures in the body. Check your own car at the top of the B-pillar.

But I do get the temptation to stick a more powerful engine in, after all the factory did it with the 309, basically a 205 with a boot. So far I managed to hold it off however. If you can't resist, why not try to find an engine from one of the lesser 405 models, which had more power than your 205GTI but use the same block/head combo? That should be pretty straightforward. Get the ECU and management loom and it's just a bolt on upgrade you can really do over the week end. Said engines whilst not exactly plentiful on the market are going to be much cheaper too and not least, possibly in better shape than some clapped out Mi16 or similar. I am suggesting this because you have not yet bought an engine, so you're not married to anything. See how that goes and then you can have another think.

Meanwhile, if you want to see how much your car's body flexes, open the bonnet and have a look at the corner screws of the plastic trim under the wipers. Are they still there? If yes, is the plastic cracked around them? If the plastic is intact and the screws are there, your car hasn't been driven much or someone has replaced the plastic and then garaged the car. Take it out on a spirited drive with lots of directional changes (aka corners) and then come back and check those corners. I would put money they're going to be cracked or missing altogether. If it doesn't happen on the first drive maybe you're not trying hard enough. It will however happen in time.
 
In terms of ease of installation, this is the list from easiest to hardest (and why).
XU10J4R - no modification of inlet or exhaust manifolds, power steering pump & reservoir a pain
XU10J4 - needs an exhaust wedge, power steering pump & reservoir a pain but can use XU9J4 pump & pulley
XU10J4RS - needs an exhaust wedge, power steering pump & reservoir a pain
XU9J4 - needs inlet manifold shortening, needs an exhaust wedge
 
I assume the 405's Mi16 donk that's currently being considered would, if listed, come in dead last on that list

I'll also admit to being concerned at the desire to complete such an extensive conversion so quickly
peugeot made a good car
datsun also made a good car in the 1600, and they're all gone, suzuki swift same
safer to start with getting what you have running really well, get to know it and improve from there bit at a time

the peugeot coolant pipe diagrams you asked about are attached, 205 1.9GTi and the 405 Mi16
think they're the right ones anyway ?
 

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And when its done you won't notice much difference. I had to fit a 4.8 now 5.1 final drive to my rally car to get it to go hard. And that is with an XU10J4 with 1.9 head, Piper cams, GTi6 inlet manifold and after market ECU.
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
And when its done you won't notice much difference. I had to fit a 4.8 now 5.1 final drive to my rally car to get it to go hard. And that is with an XU10J4 with 1.9 head, Piper cams, GTi6 inlet manifold and after market ECU.
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I don't think your experiences are representative of the greater population Graham.

In regards to cooling, you need to make the XU9J4 appear like an 8V. That means using the alloy 8V distribution block on the block coolant entry and an 8V thermostat housing exit. The heater bypass tube should also be removed. Once this is all done, it's identical to an 8V.
 
You have set the scene, you have me thinking, my only concern is the cooling capacity with a high compression xu9j4, mind you once moving it will cool well. Any xu9j4 will do this!
 
PeterT said:
I don't think your experiences are representative of the greater population Graham.

In regards to cooling, you need to make the XU9J4 appear like an 8V. That means using the alloy 8V distribution block on the block coolant entry and an 8V thermostat housing exit. The heater bypass tube should also be removed. Once this is all done, it's identical to an 8V.
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Official Peugeot 0-100 times for the 309 16v are slower or much the same as for the 1.9 8 valve 205. And that is with the 4.43 FD compared to 3.69 for the 8 valve.
 
Matthew said:
You have set the scene, you have me thinking, my only concern is the cooling capacity with a high compression xu9j4, mind you once moving it will cool well. Any xu9j4 will do this!
Click to expand...
Until two weeks ago, I've been using an original '91 radiator in my race car, with one fan. It's 12:1.
 
OK interesting I will go standard too then as all should. Much the same CR but not a race car on a race track.
 
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