2014 C5 Special Edition

FiveSoFar

FiveSoFar

Member
VIP Paid Subscriber
Tadpole
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
50
Location
Gold Coast
G'day ALL,
Here's a thing that might be of interest to someone.
I 'test drove' a 2014 C5 Spec Ed one day last week in Brisbane, and was going down the path of purchase BUT it was a 'recon' car, which meant that it needed some issues fixed before collection.
Knowing the issues that the dealer said that they would address, I was happy to purchase.
Now, the BUT bit!
Some parts needed are ex-France, and likely to take 4 months to arrive in Aus, so the dealer has decided that THIS is not something that they can follow up, and they've decided to refund my deposit and ... according to the salesman with whom I have been dealing, the vehicle is likely to go through Carlins Auction some time soon.
I can understand their situation. There was a 24 month warranty so parts needed to be new, etc.
As the owner of a donor C5, I was thinking about chasing it through the auction site, but it seems that Carlins Auctions need bidders to be 'a licensed motor dealer' to bid at Carlins auctions.... SO
1. Is anyone who sees this already a 'licensed motor dealer', or
2. knows one who might be happy to bid?
AND
3. who knows whether my 2009 C5 Exclusive would be able to donate spheres to a 2014 C5 Special Edition Exclusive?

I'll leave THIS here, as a possible beginning to a thread... and see what develops.
Cheers!
Jez
 
Can you buy it from the dealer as is without warranty? Is that legally possible?
 
In NSW there must be a statutory warranty given by dealers under 10 years and 160K. Check if this applies in QLD and to this car. The 24 month warranty would be an aftermarket warranty and these are sometimes very limited in what they cover, so read the fine print as most of the stuff likely to fail may not actually be covered. You don't have any of the consumer issues selling inside the trade.

Which spheres are you after and which engines do these two C5 have? Are they both sedans? Wagons can be different spheres. I assume the 2009 may have RHR in the VIN and the 2014 is probably a 2.2HDi with 4HL in the VIN.
 
David S said:
In NSW there must be a statutory warranty given by dealers under 10 years and 160K. Check if this applies in QLD and to this car. The 24 month warranty would be an aftermarket warranty and these are sometimes very limited in what they cover, so read the fine print as most of the stuff likely to fail may not actually be covered. You don't have any of the consumer issues selling inside the trade.

Which spheres are you after and which engines do these two C5 have? Are they both sedans? Wagons can be different spheres. I assume the 2009 may have RHR in the VIN and the 2014 is probably a 2.2HDi with 4HL in the VIN.
Click to expand...
Correct. Aftermarket warranty.
Correct about both vehicles in regard to engines.
My 2009 is a 2.0L diesel (so RHR).
The 2014 is a 2.2L diesel (so 4HL).
Supposedly the sphere(s) with a problem were front sphere(s).
Both are sedans.
 
Carlins have this Citroen in their “dealer only auction” That is it is available only to the trade.
They do have dealer only auctions to keep sweet with the trade. There are also public auctions that you
will see listed. When this Citroen is sold out of a dealer’s name to you it is subject to the statutory warranty
that has been previously mentioned. The only legal way to buy this Citroen not subject to warranty and is with all faults, as is, is at an auction. Even if you got a dealer to bid for you he then becomes liable ”selling it to you.
 
DS/ID said:
Carlins have this Citroen in their “dealer only auction” That is it is available only to the trade.
They do have dealer only auctions to keep sweet with the trade. There are also public auctions that you
will see listed. When this Citroen is sold out of a dealer’s name to you it is subject to the statutory warranty
that has been previously mentioned. The only legal way to buy this Citroen not subject to warranty and is with all faults, as is, is at an auction. Even if you got a dealer to bid for you he then becomes liable ”selling it to you.
Click to expand...
OK.
That makes sense.
My original post wasn't just for me to get this car.
It was so that every AussieFrogger would be aware that there was a 2014 year 2.2L C5 going to auction through Carlins.
There might be a AFrogger Auto Dealer???
In the last 24 hours I have given up on this car joining my stable.
It is also too nice of a car for what I can offer, as I don't have garage space for it. It would be out in the elements 🌞🌲🌦️🌪️ here, and it deserves better than that.
I can confirm (from my brief time behind the wheel) that the air-con was working nice and cold!
Also, it's grey! (Haria, I think)... a nice grey, but still grey!
 
Were you planning to pay an additional premium for the extended warranty or was it thrown in? Dealers love to sell these as they can earn 20%+ commission. Others will include it as a means of providing confidence and sealing the sale. You will be paying for it somehow either way as it's not a free product and, as mentioned before, these products are often bristling with exclusions. I recently reviewed a policy being offered by a local Benz dealer to a family friend for a few thousand and the e-mail was rather misleading as it appeared to be a Benz direct warranty extension, but was in fact a third party product when you read the fine print, filled with exclusions and certainly a nice earner for the dealer. Most of the things that will fail on this C5 will probably be excluded as 'wear' as they are typically designed to cover unexpected mechanical breakdowns.

Battery and rear engine mount wouldn't be problems. The mount is likely #40 part# 1807JX (available), but the 2.2HDi also has a dynamic / active damping unit (9677674580 available but expensive) on the subframe that can fail and make a hammering sound. Sometimes that can be reset. Otherwise replace or unplug. There is at least one thread on the active damper.

1708646481990.png



The wheel bearing is only listed as part of the hub/knuckle assembly and that is likely not locally available off the shelf. Wheel bearings are always rather hard to diagnose and they wear out slowly anyway. The original bearing would almost certainly be SKF, Timken, SNR etc., so a quality aftermarket bearing kit would do the job. Or a good used knuckle?

Front spheres for a 2.2HDi per diagram below (available).
Genuine Citroen is 527635 replaced by 1638046780
Eurorepar alternate 1638378080

1708645990360.png



For a 2009 RHR these are the front spheres and you will note that the part numbers are all different.
1708647335209.png



Add all those up and there is a fair amount to spend on this car relative to the value. The dealer might have concluded it's not an economically viable proposition for them and are moving it along.
 
The dealer statutory warranty puts onus on the dealer to rectify the problems.
An after market warranty is different in that it is open to the warranty company what they fix, and
they usually only warrant drive train.
 
David S said:
Were you planning to pay an additional premium for the extended warranty or was it thrown in? Dealers love to sell these as they can earn 20%+ commission. Others will include it as a means of providing confidence and sealing the sale. You will be paying for it somehow either way as it's not a free product and, as mentioned before, these products are often bristling with exclusions. I recently reviewed a policy being offered by a local Benz dealer to a family friend for a few thousand and the e-mail was rather misleading as it appeared to be a Benz extension, but was in fact a third party product when you read the fine print, filled with exclusions and certainly a nice earner for the dealer. Most of the things that will fail on this C5 will probably be excluded as 'wear' as they are typically designed to cover unexpected mechanical breakdowns.

Battery and rear engine mount wouldn't be problems. The mount is likely #40 part# 1807JX (available), but the 2.2HDi also has a dynamic / active damping unit (9677674580 available but expensive) on the subframe that can fail and make a hammering sound. Sometimes that can be reset. Otherwise replace or unplug. There is at least one thread on the active damper.

View attachment 237257


The wheel bearing is only listed as part of the hub/knuckle assembly and that is likely not locally available off the shelf. Wheel bearings are always rather hard to diagnose and they wear out slowly anyway. The original bearing would almost certainly be SKF, Timken, SNR etc., so a quality aftermarket bearing kit would do the job. Or a good used knuckle?

Front spheres for a 2.2HDi per diagram below (available).
Genuine Citroen is 527635 replaced by 1638046780
Eurorepar alternate 1638378080

View attachment 237256


For a 2009 RHR these are the front spheres and you will note that the part numbers are all different.
View attachment 237258


Add all those up and there is a fair amount to spend on this car relative to the value. The dealer might have concluded it's not an economically viable proposition for them and are moving it along.
Click to expand...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315101647025 engine mount 55quid 15quid delivery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114040075824 wheel bearing 100quid inc delivery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394325722230 spheres are expensive 80quid each inc delivery

So a wheel bearing a pair of spheres and an engine mount will be about $500aud. + gst charged via ebay. If it needs two rear wheel bearing add another 100 quid. Its adds up very quickly! especially if it is also due for a cambelt change.
 
David S said:
See the Carlins listing here. It also mention engine oil leaks (Rear main?), light hail damage and some poor paint repairs. I think you start to see why it's off to the trade auction.

Loading…

www.carlins.com.au
Click to expand...
Wow that is a nice looking car in the photos. Is the rear main leaking a thing? ... maybe just a pressure wash :unsure:

interesting to see the poor previous repairs statement. you can't see this sort of stuff in piccies :)

thats a lot of issues for a relatively low milage!
 
Doesn't say what the oil leak is. Could be something quite minor, but a rear main seal would not be a trivial repair. You would want to assume it's leaking from the $2 side seals on the rear bearing cap and replace those, not just the crank seal.
 
DoubleChevron said:
Wow that is a nice looking car in the photos. Is the rear main leaking a thing? ... maybe just a pressure wash :unsure:

interesting to see the poor previous repairs statement. you can't see this sort of stuff in piccies :)

thats a lot of issues for a relatively low milage!
Click to expand...
AND... you don't even see a photo of under the bonnet...
Under the bonnet looks like a brand new engine.
Clean ... to the extent that I thought that it was a brand new replacement engine.
Interestingly, the under-hood heat shield material doesn't look new, but if the engine had been steam-cleaned, it might have been affected by the steam. Might?
There is a whitish mark on the heat-shield black stuff across the entire front section of the hood, that made me wonder whether the car had suffered a radiator catastrophe when being driven by the previous owner.??? :unsure:
Unless someone has accidentally lost a page of the Maintenance Record and Service Interval book in the Carlins photo, it appears that the last service was done at 55K... and it is now at 107K... 💣??? THAT is what Carlins mean by 'partial service history, right?
There was a Bob Jane warranty certificate with the paperwork, and I think that I remember it saying that new tyres had been fitted at something like 90K.
As soon as I started the engine, there was a concerning noise (vibration) at idle, but as soon as any accelerator was applied, that noise went away. I suggested to the salesman that it was likely an engine mount, but it was only later that he confirmed 'engine mount' on the list of to be repaired. The top mount that I could see (item 5 on David S's diagram) looked fine (and newish)...
I had paid my deposit on an agreed $13K price plus about $1.5K for the 24-month warranty, which I was happy about when THEY were going to fix the listed problems.
I see that the Carlins page has made a mistake in quoting a 2.0Litre in their advert, but the VIN confirms 2.2L.
It would be interesting to know how much the dealer was going to be paying for the stated repairs, as I read in a Carlins review that they ONLY sell expensive stuff over $10K...
It's a 10 years old car, so I thought that the paintwork was pretty good for that age. I noted a small gnarly scrap on at least one alloy wheel. The air-con knobs were sticky!
The worst thing about it is the grey colour (I prefer red!)
 
David S said:
Were you planning to pay an additional premium for the extended warranty or was it thrown in? Dealers love to sell these as they can earn 20%+ commission. Others will include it as a means of providing confidence and sealing the sale. You will be paying for it somehow either way as it's not a free product and, as mentioned before, these products are often bristling with exclusions. I recently reviewed a policy being offered by a local Benz dealer to a family friend for a few thousand and the e-mail was rather misleading as it appeared to be a Benz direct warranty extension, but was in fact a third party product when you read the fine print, filled with exclusions and certainly a nice earner for the dealer. Most of the things that will fail on this C5 will probably be excluded as 'wear' as they are typically designed to cover unexpected mechanical breakdowns.

Battery and rear engine mount wouldn't be problems. The mount is likely #40 part# 1807JX (available), but the 2.2HDi also has a dynamic / active damping unit (9677674580 available but expensive) on the subframe that can fail and make a hammering sound. Sometimes that can be reset. Otherwise replace or unplug. There is at least one thread on the active damper.

View attachment 237257


The wheel bearing is only listed as part of the hub/knuckle assembly and that is likely not locally available off the shelf. Wheel bearings are always rather hard to diagnose and they wear out slowly anyway. The original bearing would almost certainly be SKF, Timken, SNR etc., so a quality aftermarket bearing kit would do the job. Or a good used knuckle?

Front spheres for a 2.2HDi per diagram below (available).
Genuine Citroen is 527635 replaced by 1638046780
Eurorepar alternate 1638378080

View attachment 237256


For a 2009 RHR these are the front spheres and you will note that the part numbers are all different.
View attachment 237258


Add all those up and there is a fair amount to spend on this car relative to the value. The dealer might have concluded it's not an economically viable proposition for them and are moving it along.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all that David.
According to my salesperson, the reason why the dealer decided to pull out of the deal themselves was that "parts ex France could take 4 months to arrive". Had they been assured of a quick turn around, I think that I'd still be buying this Special Edition for $13K.
BUT, when it seems too good to be true, it usually IS too good to be true, right?
 
It may well turn up at another local dealer and at least you know what to check for and might approach an extra cost warranty with a bit more suspicion. If it turns up again for sale locally, it probably won't be much more expensive than the deal you missed out on. The parts are available locally except the wheel bearing.
That rattle on startup could have been the active damper and one that is failing or just out of sync with the engine is sometimes described as sounding like a machine gun. Another possible rattle/vibration issue at idle that will go away at higher rpm is a jammed one-way clutch on the alternator pulley.
 
FiveSoFar said:
AND... you don't even see a photo of under the bonnet...
Under the bonnet looks like a brand new engine.
Clean ... to the extent that I thought that it was a brand new replacement engine.
Interestingly, the under-hood heat shield material doesn't look new, but if the engine had been steam-cleaned, it might have been affected by the steam. Might?
There is a whitish mark on the heat-shield black stuff across the entire front section of the hood, that made me wonder whether the car had suffered a radiator catastrophe when being driven by the previous owner.??? :unsure:
Unless someone has accidentally lost a page of the Maintenance Record and Service Interval book in the Carlins photo, it appears that the last service was done at 55K... and it is now at 107K... 💣??? THAT is what Carlins mean by 'partial service history, right?
There was a Bob Jane warranty certificate with the paperwork, and I think that I remember it saying that new tyres had been fitted at something like 90K.
As soon as I started the engine, there was a concerning noise (vibration) at idle, but as soon as any accelerator was applied, that noise went away. I suggested to the salesman that it was likely an engine mount, but it was only later that he confirmed 'engine mount' on the list of to be repaired. The top mount that I could see (item 5 on David S's diagram) looked fine (and newish)...
I had paid my deposit on an agreed $13K price plus about $1.5K for the 24-month warranty, which I was happy about when THEY were going to fix the listed problems.
I see that the Carlins page has made a mistake in quoting a 2.0Litre in their advert, but the VIN confirms 2.2L.
It would be interesting to know how much the dealer was going to be paying for the stated repairs, as I read in a Carlins review that they ONLY sell expensive stuff over $10K...
It's a 10 years old car, so I thought that the paintwork was pretty good for that age. I noted a small gnarly scrap on at least one alloy wheel. The air-con knobs were sticky!
The worst thing about it is the grey colour (I prefer red!)
Click to expand...
The dealer cannot implement an after market warranty to takeover a statutory warranty. He can add a warranty to the expiry of his obligation. If it has less than 160,000 klms and under 10 years of age from build plate, he has that obligation.
 
DoubleChevron said:
Wow that is a nice looking car in the photos. Is the rear main leaking a thing? ... maybe just a pressure wash :unsure:

interesting to see the poor previous repairs statement. you can't see this sort of stuff in piccies :)

thats a lot of issues for a relatively low milage!
Click to expand...
Hi Shane,
Where did you get the "rear main leaking" bit?
It is not spelled out in the Carlins ad, which just states ENGINE OIL LEAKS...
Is it because David S added (rear main??) ??
Is rear main leak a thing in these engines?
THAT is exactly how the dealer put it in a text message to me originally.
- rear main leak...
The Gurus just KNOW, don't they?
See ya
Jez
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top