1981 Renault 20TS

[BlackC2]

(Above post continued)...

Before everything could back on, the valve clearances needed checking. Only the one was obviously noisy, but it seemed prudent to do them all. I used the jack up a front wheel and turn it to get TDC method for each cylinder in firing order.

The preheat ducting took well to new temp paint paint from my old stock (forgot to photograph...) so after yet another lot of scrubbing - this time all the black plastics with all purpose cleaner - it was finally all ready to go back in:

During all this I'd also taken the opportunity to remove one of the two inline fuel filters and direct the hose correctly up to the carb. It needed a bit more trimming to get it a bit further from the (hot) exhaust ducting:

To seal the cam cover nuts - and stop one of those original leaks - I replaced the very much squashed rubber washers. I used a little pack of sump plug washers I picked up as SC, but I'm not happy with the results as the internal diameters are too large. They're doing a great job atm, but I'm going to get some better ones in future.

Just to be sure, I sourced a new o-ring for the distributor. Popping in to Repco, I had the actual distributor in my hand, the service bloke faced his computer ready to type and asked for a VIN. I said I didn't have it with me (I had thought they might want one but forgot to bring it - and the VIN for this car is weird...) and so he relaxed and aid he couldn't do anything without a VIN. You can't half tell we're in the 21st century...

I returnd the following day with the VIN - which their computer couldn't cope with - but was ready to actually suggest they grab some o-rings of this [holding up the old one] size and we could pick one. Though the suggestion appeared to be a novel one, the gentleman this time did just that and we quickly found a perfect fit. Didn't stop them from making me buy a whole set of three for a total of $21!

So with everything back in, we have a cleaner, quieter and smoother engine. Took it for a run and it was a happy little beastie! (But, boy - that body roll! ). The valves will need another go. The manual wanted a the feeler guage to have a "stiff sliding fit" (snarfle snarfle snort...) and judging by the bit of noise on a couple, I reckon I'll have to be a bit stiffer....

The photo below compares the bay when I first bought it (before any washing) with where we are now:

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[J-man]

Coming along nicely Tony. I'm not sure Mrs J-man would have quite the same level of understanding as Mrs BlackC2 when it comes to soaking car parts in the spa. It's kind of like that frown you get when you ask to put car parts in the dish washer
I think I have the solution for your engine's lack of sparkle inside. It would blow the budget; not sure how much by, but I came across this product this morning called BG Dynamic engine restoration. Seems quite impressive to say the least. Watch the movie here -

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=339186104114475

 

[COL]

(Above post continued)...

Before everything could back on, the valve clearances needed checking. Only the one was obviously noisy, but it seemed prudent to do them all. I used the jack up a front wheel and turn it to get TDC method for each cylinder in firing order.

View attachment 125534

The preheat ducting took well to new temp paint paint from my old stock (forgot to photograph...) so after yet another lot of scrubbing - this time all the black plastics with all purpose cleaner - it was finally all ready to go back in:

View attachment 125535

View attachment 125536

During all this I'd also taken the opportunity to remove one of the two inline fuel filters and direct the hose correctly up to the carb. It needed a bit more trimming to get it a bit further from the (hot) exhaust ducting:

View attachment 125537

To seal the cam cover nuts - and stop one of those original leaks - I replaced the very much squashed rubber washers. I used a little pack of sump plug washers I picked up as SC, but I'm not happy with the results as the internal diameters are too large. They're doing a great job atm, but I'm going to get some better ones in future.

Just to be sure, I sourced a new o-ring for the distributor. Popping in to Repco, I had the actual distributor in my hand, the service bloke faced his computer ready to type and asked for a VIN. I said I didn't have it with me (I had thought they might want one but forgot to bring it - and the VIN for this car is weird...) and so he relaxed and aid he couldn't do anything without a VIN. You can't half tell we're in the 21st century...

I returnd the following day with the VIN - which their computer couldn't cope with - but was ready to actually suggest they grab some o-rings of this [holding up the old one] size and we could pick one. Though the suggestion appeared to be a novel one, the gentleman this time did just that and we quickly found a perfect fit. Didn't stop them from making me buy a whole set of three for a total of $21!

So with everything back in, we have a cleaner, quieter and smoother engine. Took it for a run and it was a happy little beastie! (But, boy - that body roll! ). The valves will need another go. The manual wanted a the feeler guage to have a "stiff sliding fit" (snarfle snarfle snort...) and judging by the bit of noise on a couple, I reckon I'll have to be a bit stiffer....

The photo below compares the bay when I first bought it (before any washing) with where we are now:

View attachment 125538

Cheers,
Tony.

Nice job, good to see your R20 is coming along nicely.

I think the original sealing medium between the cam cover and nuts were fibre washers, you could replace them with solid copper washers. Could even make them up out of a cereal packet if you have some wad punches handy.

If I need "O" rings I go to my local hydraulic supplier (which is Hydraquip) they have a great selection of "O" rings and have never failed to supply me with something suitable. Also the service is always friendly and so is the price (that "O" ring you bought would of cost $2 max).

Anyway keep up the good work and keep the pics and posts coming.

 

[BlackC2]

Coming along nicely Tony. I'm not sure Mrs J-man would have quite the same level of understanding as Mrs BlackC2 when it comes to soaking car parts in the spa. It's kind of like that frown you get when you ask to put car parts in the dish washer
I think I have the solution for your engine's lack of sparkle inside. It would blow the budget; not sure how much by, but I came across this product this morning called BG Dynamic engine restoration. Seems quite impressive to say the least. Watch the movie here -

Thanks J-Man - that stuff looks awesome. I had a bit of a look about getting it, but it looks like they have a single stage version available to the retail market, perhaps the full version is only available via workshops. (If nothing else, it's worth a look for my other cars...). I've already bought a Nulon version for the upcoming oil change, which I'll do before taking off the cover again for the valve clearances. Will be interesting to see if there's any appreciable difference.

(Funny you should mention using the dishwasher - I've been eyeing the tail-lights and I reckon they're not going to clean themselves...)

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[BlackC2]

Nice job, good to see your R20 is coming along nicely.

I think the original sealing medium between the cam cover and nuts were fibre washers, you could replace them with solid copper washers. Could even make them up out of a cereal packet if you have some wad punches handy.

If I need "O" rings I go to my local hydraulic supplier (which is Hydraquip) they have a great selection of "O" rings and have never failed to supply me with something suitable. Also the service is always friendly and so is the price (that "O" ring you bought would of cost $2 max).

Thanks for the encouragement, Col.

Actually making them for cardboard sounds like a great idea. I do have punches, but would need to get one with a larger diameter for the outside cut. Hmmm.....excuse for a new tool.

And naturally, you're quite right about a better source of o-rings...

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[COL]

Thanks for the encouragement, Col.

Actually making them for cardboard sounds like a great idea. I do have punches, but would need to get one with a larger diameter for the outside cut. Hmmm.....excuse for a new tool.

And naturally, you're quite right about a better source of o-rings...

Cheers,
Tony.

Scissors work well cutting external circumferences even if they are small (Keep with the low/no cost theme)

 

[Fewgo]

Parts: $0.00 ; Supplies: $31.00 ; Maintenance Items: $0.00

TOTAL: $31.00

Less Than 30 Dollars Job 1: Repair headlights

Last post, I mentioned that our little trip into the sticks had rattled the headlight glass off the headlights. Not being the type of issue that can be ignored if I wanted to keep driving it, I had to make that the next job.

First off, I persuded both lenses to come out of the surrounds - there was no chance of them falling out themselves, as it took a bit of wrestling to get them out. This revealed another previous previous repair effort. Most of the chrome has corroded away long ago, so someone has come in with a paint brush and silver paint to try and remedy it. As much as it'd be nice to track down some kind of electroplating business and see if the chrome could be restored, I'm still not prepared to spend that much time or money on this project. So, like the previous owner, I have to rely on 'paint'.

View attachment 125482

Before any painting could be done, the main units needed a serious bit of cleaning. Remember these lights were present in the engine bay when it was soaked in degreaser, scrubbed and the jet washed...and they still looked like this!

View attachment 125483

So they got a good soak in Marine Clean and then scrubbed and steam cleaned:

View attachment 125484

Though I've had experience with "chrome" paint before and never been impressed, I still coughed up($21) for some this time in the vain hope it might work a bit better on these smooth surfaces. As it was, it came out a silver/grey colour and ran really easily. The end result is certainly an improvement, but no substitute for actual chrome:

View attachment 125485
View attachment 125488

Meanwhile, the opportunity to polish up the stainless steel surround while the lights were out of the way was too much to ignore, so I broke out the two drill bit attachements for polishing metal. They came as a kit from Supercheap (or Repco) ages ago when I used them to polish the ally cam cover for the Alfa. First there's the calico wheel and coarse polishing paste then a second round with the soft pad and compound. as we all know, stainless is a bit stubborn to polish sometimes, so it took the best part of an hour to go round the whole surround twice. (Well, an hour in my mind at least...)

View attachment 125486

The second outlay for this project was some waterproof silicone sealant to refit the glass to the housings. I was able to get a cute little stubby cartridge for the caulking gun, so 'only' had to pay $10. I wasn't patient enough when I then went to reinstall the finished lights and the silicone hadn't set, so I had to do a second go...should've waited overnight to be sure.

After also thoroughly cleaning and dressing the black grille, the job was done. I made sure to drown the adjusting mechanisms with silicone lubricant and they adjust really nicely now. My secret to adjusting to the correct height? Not bother - I just adjusted them until they looked good...

Have done a couple of decent runs with the car since and nothing's come loose, so - fingers crossed - that's Job Done!

Cheers,

Tony.

View attachment 125489

Hi Tony

I have some NOS headlights if you want to replace at some stage.

Regards

Damien

 

[Sunroof]

I like the low cost approach. I like DIY thinking as well. Keep up the reporting it is interesting.

 

[BlackC2]

Scissors work well cutting external circumferences even if they are small (Keep with the low/no cost theme)

oh yeah, forgot about those.....

T.

 

[r8r20]

Hi everyone,

It's been a while - I've not had a french car for a bit! But I've just bought, to keep me entertained, this Renault 20TS via GumTree (yes, the one that had a link here in the classifieds).


View attachment 124424

It's been well loved from the way it drives (surprisingly well!) and the cosmetic work that a previous owner has obviously lavished on it over the years. It appears that no problem couldn't be solved with a tin of paint and a paint brush. Or tape. Or both.

The plan is to gently tease it back to a certain level of respectability, intially with the challenge of spending zero dollars! Once the zero dollar options are exhausted, the "low cost" approach will come into force and we'll see where we're at then.

View attachment 124426
View attachment 124427
View attachment 124428
View attachment 124429
View attachment 124431
View attachment 124432
It's never going to be a minter - no-one is going to do the full respray it so desperately needs. But if the fun I have with it allows it to continue that little bit longer and then maybe to another loving owner, that'll be great.

I'll do a running commentary over on the projects page - always good for motivation.

In the meantime, I'd love to hear from any current owners of other R20s - especially good ones as I might need the reference!

Cheers,
Tony.

Hello Tony.
I am in Brisbane and bought a series 2 - 5 speed from the original owner in 2006. It has just ticked over 450,000.00 km. We use it as a daily driver during the winter as it does not have aircon. The first owner had it "EndRusted" and "Armaglazed" when he bought it. In general the end rust worked but the Armaglaze is tragic so it need lots of work in the paint department Over that time I have accumulated a few bits and pieces as well.
Keep in touch
DG

 

[BlackC2]

Hello Tony.
I am in Brisbane and bought a series 2 - 5 speed from the original owner in 2006. It has just ticked over 450,000.00 km. We use it as a daily driver during the winter as it does not have aircon. The first owner had it "EndRusted" and "Armaglazed" when he bought it. In general the end rust worked but the Armaglaze is tragic so it need lots of work in the paint department Over that time I have accumulated a few bits and pieces as well.
Keep in touch
DG

Hi DG - sorry for not responding earlier - great to hear of another one!

Cheers,
T.

 

[BlackC2]

It's been a little while (again) since the last update, and I haven't done all that much, but here we are nonetheless...

Having done some of the basic electricals, I took the opportunity to do an oil and filter change. Before doing so I had a try with Nulon's version of an oil flush to see if it would have any effect on the sludge. Having done a good 20mins driving with the flush in the oil, I drained and changed it along with adding a new filter. It was good timing, as I wanted to have another go at the valve timing, so I was able to have a direct before and after. (The top shot is before). Unfortunately, the 'after' shot has some direct sunlight on it, so the photo makes it look better than it is.The areas between each rocker on the cam are maybe a little cleaner, but otherwise it's just a little bit cleaner overall at best:

Having said that, there is this area (and a couple of areas like it). I'm wondering/worried they might be appearing/growing now that the car gets some use. Another oil and filter change in 1000km wouldn't be a bad idea, though the odometer doesn't work, so that will be a bit of a guess!

Speaking of oil - the new o-ring that went into the distributor did nothing to stop the oil coming out of it! So further investigation was required. I popped it off again and then started to strip it down in search of another seal of some kind. (I should point out at this stage in case it isn't obvious - I'm not the world's greatest mechanic, so I'm often doing these things for the first time and subsequently making it up as I go along!). First suspect was the remnants of a very thin fibrous washer - one either side of the base:

Despite muttering the obligatory, "now thars ya problem!", it wasn't of course the real cause. After stripping down the whole thing, I finally found/learned-about-the-existence-of the oil spring seal in deep in the main casing. :

(Guess it must be roughly 22mm OD, then...)

I've actually worked this all out over several sessions and now two orders for a replacement. (Long boring story). But now I've finally worked out exactly what I need, I have it winging it's way across the globe as I type. And three spares. Each a different size. That I paid too much for. And got stiffed on the postage. And can only blame myself.

The other issue is that when I was taking it all apart, I lost the tiny tiny spring clip that holds the dog clip thingy on to the vacuum advance spring...thingy. I swear I juuuuust touched it and it teleported to an alternate dimension. Luckily I had the larger version of the same thing from the points, so I could show that to various places in town seeking a replacement. Unluckily, everyone claimed to have never even seen one before. Also unluckily, but more likely stupidly, I also managed to lose the bigger one as well. Seriously, I shouldn't be allowed to do this stuff unsupervised!

I haven't yet got solutions to the spring problem I'm happy with - even the internet is having trouble showing me one (that I can buy)! Maybe I can use e-clips - I've currently got one that looks like it might work for the small version, but I'm not sure. Suggestions gratefully received!

In the meantime, I christened my parts washer (jeez that stuff stinks/gets into everything! ) so it's all shiny at least - including a new set of points:

I've had (slightly) better luck with the cosmetics. I've been continuing the slog around the car with the steam cleaner to get that horrible tape and green paint off from under the windows. I've now finished the driver's side and started on the other. So at least on one side, the original design is starting to come out again:

You can also just see in the pic above where I finally cut back the paint on the rear door. I used some 1500, 2000 and 3000 w&d then a cutting compound. It's a little bit shiny and a final gentler cut should finish it off. The touch up paint didn't quiiiiite match, naturally, and it's not that subtle a difference. Not a brilliant result, but still a zero cost job! (A dwindling percentage of the jobs these days...).

The sanding and cutting extended around to the rear hatch where the badges needed realigning correctly. A better result, perhaps, though I didn't think to mask the horizontal ridge running through the centre and so went through to primer in a couple of places.

(You'll also notice in these shots that the reprinted number plated have arrived ($88.00) and I lost patience with the tennis ball on the towball so replaced that as well, from Supercheap ($5.00))

(TBC)

 

[BlackC2]

(cont...)

With the polishing finished I could finally put the badges back in the right place! (You better be happy with this Simca!!) I used a photo to scale off the correct placement using MATHS. (Hope the ones in the photo were right...) And we can add $10.00 to the bill for "outside use" clear double sided tape. Though to be fair I now have most of the roll left, to be used for future zero cost jobs...

And, to see how far we've come since I bought it:

It's been a bit frustrating learning about those parts I've need in stages and then the time it takes to get them down here. So I've started in on the next couple of jobs while I'm waiting. Will update as I go.

Thank you to those who've been reading all this!

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Bowie]

Good on ya! Ahhh all those little cosmetic things are so rewarding!

And double, no triple points for taking that dizzy apart.

 

[dacia4x4]

I hope you have noted down the offset drive position in relationship to rotor button relief cut out in upper section of distributor shaft so as it is not reassembled 180deg out...... just a thought.... jim

 

[jaahn]

Hi Tony
Lots of good work, keep going. I have good memories of my R20 which gave good service, taught 3 kids to drive, towed a trailer and car trailer, and was a generally great family car for many years then, and as comfortable as any car we have had for highway travel(except maybee the C5)

Just a comment on doing the valves. The ends of the adjusting screws and the tops of the valves wear so they are not perfectly flat as they were new. So a flat feeler gauge does not give a perfect feel across a now imperfect curved gap. There is a dial gauge tool that can be used but who has that !! One way to get a better outcome is to use the screw thread itself as the gauge. The thread pitch is accurate and turning it a set amount will give a set clearance. So if you see how much the screw is backed off from zero clearance on the quiet ones then set the noisy ones the same amount it will be OK.
This is a quick description and if you want more ask or send a PM. Worn valve gear is a common problem on older motors. Some are easy to get quiet some not. But you do not need to recondition the valve gear probably to get a better outcome for modest use. Indeed I might just set them by "feel" if necessary when I was still working.
Jaahn

 

[Fireblade]

It's been a little while (again) since the last update, and I haven't done all that much, but here we are nonetheless...

Having done some of the basic electricals, I took the opportunity to do an oil and filter change. Before doing so I had a try with Nulon's version of an oil flush to see if it would have any effect on the sludge. Having done a good 20mins driving with the flush in the oil, I drained and changed it along with adding a new filter.

It might be worth a crack at the BG Dynamic stuff. There might be something in their 2 part process, and and 45mins per step at fixed RPM might give you a better outcome than a 20 min spin. I've just stripped down an engine that had obviously suffered years of neglect and it was a nasty sticky mess in there. So I'd love to see you have a crack at the full BGD stuff and see the results - Maybe a few of us could chip in $10ea as long as you post the results!!!

 

[BlackC2]

I hope you have noted down the offset drive position in relationship to rotor button relief cut out in upper section of distributor shaft so as it is not reassembled 180deg out...... just a thought.... jim

Yep, did that - thanks for the tip, though.

(May have lost the correct setting for the vacuum advance dog clip thingy, though....)

T.

 

[BlackC2]

It might be worth a crack at the BG Dynamic stuff. There might be something in their 2 part process, and and 45mins per step at fixed RPM might give you a better outcome than a 20 min spin. I've just stripped down an engine that had obviously suffered years of neglect and it was a nasty sticky mess in there. So I'd love to see you have a crack at the full BGD stuff and see the results - Maybe a few of us could chip in $10ea as long as you post the results!!!

It would be great to see, but I fear the condition of the rest of the car (mostly paint and some rust) make the process non-viable. Alas.

T.

 

[bob]

well done finding a shaft seal for the dizzy, I never did years ago. When you put the dizzy back together create a flexible earthing link between the action plate and the dizzy body, very necessary but removed by the dizzy design accountants.... You can knock it up from a small piece of "solder wick" is probably the easiest.
The absence of this two cent item can create all sorts of engine misbehavior, particularly at the warm up point where the system allows the vac advance line to be connected to the manifold - usually just as you are trying to start off at an intersection....

cheers,
Bob