1948 Peugeot 202 woody wagon

[Woodieman]

My friend, who is not very active online, just purchased this 1948 Peugeot 202 wagon and is looking for information for its restoration.
It came with the stock 1,133 cc engine and manual 3 speed transmission. Unfortunately the engine is shot and the previous owner was quoted $4500 just in parts to rebuild it! Because it’s such a rare vehicle here in the US there doesn’t seem to be a lot of information available. Any thoughts on where to source technical manuals, parts and possible engine and transmission substitutions would be appreciated. My friend lives in Central California. I will try to get him to register as an aussiefrog.com user. BTW, my granny was born in Queensland!

 

[seasink]

A bit more here-

https://barnfinds.com/two-in-the-country-1948-peugeot-202-woodie-wagon/

 

[Greenpeace]

I see in the comments on seasink's link someone restored one then found out it was so slow they sold it to a museum.

Without being silly I would put a compact more modern engine/gearbox in it. A Nissan A series or maybe a K series Toyota Corolla engine. Wouldn't look too out of place in there, cheap to buy, good parts supply, ultra reliable, double the power of the original engine. Most importantly, should be compact enough to fit without any cutting of the the bodywork.
The little hemi headed Corolla engine would look pretty good in there.

If the owner doesn't go chopping the vehicle up for the conversion, he could enjoy driving it and maybe restore the original running gear at his leisure?

 

[Russell Hall]

A fine 202 wagon. The sedan, decouvrable and utility made their way to Australia but there is no record of the wagon here. The car looks in excellent condition for restoration. The 202 is not fast by modern standards but nor is the 203. Performance was comparable to the British 10hp's but livelier. Sixty miles per hour maximum, 28 seconds to fifty. Assistance in restoration and parts will be found in France. An original engine is the soul of a car, modernizing it with something else destroys its value.

 

[Steven King]

There have been a few 202s restored - not modded - in the US …will see if any info can be found and post again.

 

[pontarriere]

The car looks great! As Russell says, try to keep it as original as possible.

 

[Russell Hall]

There were two notable things about the 202. It had a welded steel body attached to a bloctube chassis. It was exceptionally strong, free from squeaks and rattles and stayed together in a crash. But it was as heavy as a 203. The motor was notably smooth. The Motor test of the 202BH in 1947 noted under the heading "sweet running" that the car provided smooth travel. They had not sampled any post war four cylinder that was more refined in that respect and the car remained quiet and vibrationless up to its maximum.
The 202 privately imported postwar by a wool buyer was driven vigorously all over NSW and from a memoir was rather faster than big American cars on winding roads.

 

[Greenpeace]

Rebuilding the original running gear would be the ideal solution but the OP has already indicated the owner has been taken aback by the $4500 USD (for parts alone) to rebuild the original engine.

The OP did ask for potential engine/gearbox substitutions, hence I suggested the popular pushrod OHV Nissan/ Toyota options of a similar capacity/size to the original power plant.

I guess it depends on what the owner is doing with the car, a preservation or a restoration, and what his budget is?

If it's a full on restoration he is going to have plenty of time to rebuild the original running gear as well, and the cost of such would not be outrageous the grand scheme of things.

If it's a "budget" preservation, (which is what I would do as it looks great the way it is) the cost of rebuilding the original running gear would likely be higher than everything else he "needs" to do?

 

[Steven King]

Patina kept but apparently registered - check DMV ?

maroon restored as original, also west coast if i recall correctly

 

[Steven King]

and of course the rregistered one is a 402

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Engine parts hard to get and not just things like rings and bearings. I was given the job of rebuilding one about 20 years ago. Engine was totally stuffed, nothing usable. Another one was brought from Holland and wasn't much better. In the end the owner bought another complete car from the US so he could use its engine in the Ute he had restored.

 

[Russell Hall]

Carcatalog

 

[Woodieman]

Thanks everyone. Awesome comments! The new owner wants to keep it as original as possible (no small block Chevys or Fords need apply). As a woodie owner and sometime woodworker, I will assist him with bringing the wood back to life. Along the lines of Greenpeace's comments, my friend is considering a 4 cylinder Toyota engine, possibly mated to a 5spd manual then leave the rearend in place and install an open drive line. A hemi motor from a Peugeot 403 series with it's 4spd (from 1955-1966) was suggested by someone in order to keep the Peugeot provenance, but we're not sure of how hard it would be to source a good 403 motor, the availability of parts, or if it would even fit.

Here's some pictures with the PO from last week taken in Grass Valley, CA.

 

[Greenpeace]

I'd venture to say if you could find a 403 engine and trans not in a car it may well need a total rebuild as well?

I think over there a Japanese engine would be the most sensible replacement as you will probably have the same issues sourcing part$ for the 403 one.

A 2T 1600 Celica motor would have some people guessing if you set it up with an oil bath air cleaner etc.
Not sure about over there, but a lot of perfectly good early Jap drive trains over here are getting pulled out to make room for DOHC Turbos and 6 speed boxes from the JDM cars.

2T engine.

 

[Russell Hall]

202 Canadienne - French Woody

peugeot

pepopolis.blogspot.com

This piece features the well restored Canadienne sold for 30,000 euros.
What a person does with their car is their business but modifying classic cars destroys their distinctive features and devalues them. Collectors shun them and they rarely survive long beyond the modifier.

 

[Andrew Watkins]

The other pathway is to remember what was done to them in the day - any manufactured item is a compromise between the needs of various users, so if your needs are different you can tweak accordingly

If the issue is needing a little more power for easier cruising at highway speed and to make mixing it in traffic less frustrating this doesn't usually require that you turn it into a fire breathing monster.

People have been making cars go faster since Adam was a boy and the techniques of the 30's and 40's still have validity - attention to ports and compression ( most of these engines ran on 70 octane fuel, which allows some leeway in these days of 91-98 octane), making sure that it is running on all cylinders most of the time(!) and tweaks for liveability, stable tune and starting such as the 123 distributor or other forms of "invisible" electronic ignition can make an appreciable difference. Similarly for brakes - it is ideal if they work on all 4 wheels at once and go off when asked, also if mechanical that the suspension does its bit in applying resistance to the pull of the levers/cables.

With this philosophy you have a more liveable car whithout changing it into something it was never intended to be and it will maintain value - an extra 5-10 mph can make a helluva difference to general liveability, especially if it will stop and steer as well

Good luck

Andrew

 

[Andrew Watkins]

The other 'period' enhancement is low pressure supercharging, which is cheap and can be taken off should purism become importan. There was a recent thread on this which was very informative

A

 

[Greenpeace]

The other 'period' enhancement is low pressure supercharging, which is cheap and can be taken off should purism become importan. There was a recent thread on this which was very informative

A

I've done numerous supercharger kits on all manner of things, and done correctly it's a great way to make a small engine feel like a bigger one.

I boosted a 9/20 1926 Rover to 4psi using an AMR500. They are only a 1100cc 3 speed and it would pull over all the hills around here in top gear, before supercharging it needed 2nd gear.
Mind you I didn't have to spend $6.5K+ on the engine first like this 202 needs.

The standard Rover actually had quite similar performance figures in its day to the Peugeot in question. It was also lauded to perform better than "much larger cars". The reality was it was bloody slow.
I would suggest a Ford Kent engine if the car was over here, but I dare say they would be thin on the ground in the USA.

202 Canadienne - French Woody

peugeot

pepopolis.blogspot.com

This piece features the well restored Canadienne sold for 30,000 euros.
What a person does with their car is their business but modifying classic cars destroys their distinctive features and devalues them. Collectors shun them and they rarely survive long beyond the modifier.

I think it's a matter of economics, do you spend $50,000 on a car that going to sell for $30,000, or $25,000 on one (with sympathetic mods) that may be worth $20,000 when it's sale time?

 

[Woodieman]

202 Canadienne - French Woody

peugeot

pepopolis.blogspot.com

This piece features the well restored Canadienne sold for 30,000 euros.
What a person does with their car is their business but modifying classic cars destroys their distinctive features and devalues them. Collectors shun them and they rarely survive long beyond the modifier.

Thanks Russell. I translated it from Spanish and sent it to my friend. Lots of good info!

 

[Woodieman]

The other pathway is to remember what was done to them in the day - any manufactured item is a compromise between the needs of various users, so if your needs are different you can tweak accordingly

If the issue is needing a little more power for easier cruising at highway speed and to make mixing it in traffic less frustrating this doesn't usually require that you turn it into a fire breathing monster.

People have been making cars go faster since Adam was a boy and the techniques of the 30's and 40's still have validity - attention to ports and compression ( most of these engines ran on 70 octane fuel, which allows some leeway in these days of 91-98 octane), making sure that it is running on all cylinders most of the time(!) and tweaks for liveability, stable tune and starting such as the 123 distributor or other forms of "invisible" electronic ignition can make an appreciable difference. Similarly for brakes - it is ideal if they work on all 4 wheels at once and go off when asked, also if mechanical that the suspension does its bit in applying resistance to the pull of the levers/cables.

With this philosophy you have a more liveable car whithout changing it into something it was never intended to be and it will maintain value - an extra 5-10 mph can make a helluva difference to general liveability, especially if it will stop and steer as well

Good luck

Andrew

I like your viewpoint. It is a "U" model, which means utility and it has 4 wheel hydraulic brakes already, so the main focus will be the drivetrain. He's thinking a Toyota or Nissan 4 banger would work and with electronic ignition, and manual 4 or 5 spd, it would be a fun wagon, and he would be keeping Peugeot history alive, which I know appeals to him. He won't cut the firewall and will keep the stock motor in case someone in the future has an itch to put it back to bone stock.