C5 Series 1 Won't Run

David S said:
John, for your VIN VF7DERHZE76530266 with RP 10098 CJ this is the tank unit ... with pump.

View attachment 224371
Click to expand...
Wow David, thanks, I don't know where you get that information but rapt that you do.
20230711_142838.jpg

I could very easily confirm operational (and flow rate) with removal of outlet from the filter.
How does that outlet hose come off without damaging it? Is that white collar prised off? I tried a bit but scared of damaging it.
John
PS: What do mean with RP 10098 CJ?
 
The RP number is your ORGA number - build date 2 July 2004! CJ tells you the factory where it was built.

For heavens sake don't try and pry the white band - push it in! The side you can see is not doing the locking - it's done by the concealed parts on the other side. The inlet and outlet from the fuel filter should have the same connectors
 
Check the pump electrical supply at the engine fuse box before you disconnect any of the fuel pipes (which won't help you anyway unless the pump has good power).
 
David S said:
Check the pump electrical supply at the engine fuse box before you disconnect any of the fuel pipes (which won't help you anyway unless the pump has good power).
Click to expand...
I'll be carefully checking all those cables going into the plugs and the pins / terminals on the other side of the plugs.
In the C5 book, there is no reference to a fuse powering (protecting) the pump. Surely it's protected? Which one is it?
John
 
Follow this post, there is an older post as well but this also shows the pink wire and pins to check and test for 12v. You can temp clean and use a toothpick or similar to hold pressure on the burnt pin to get the C5 started to get it home if that's the same issue.

HDI C5 wont start

I have a 2004 HDI Estate it ran perfectly yesterday as I went to family for Christmas. This morning I went to start it would not go it only ran for a few seconds even if i try to rev it it only runs for a few seconds anybody have any ideas. as it gave me no problem at all until this morning it...
www.aussiefrogs.com
 
You can easily tell if there's a pump in the tank by counting the wires on the plug at the top of the tank. The pump requires thicker wires than the gauge, too.
And if it doesn't have one there will be a manual priming pump in the fuel line up front. It looks like the thing in the fuel line to an outboard motor.

I have had awful trouble doing up the big ring 5 in the diagram. Mark Holland at Lion Auto's here in Adelaide pointed out that there's a little arrow that aligns with a mark (or maybe points to the front?) that makes it much easier. As well the Oring 6 i bought new was apparently old stock and had become smaller and would not stay in place. I used the old one and it worked fine.
 
Update, I reckon / think I've tried all suggestions to date and it still does not go.
I've put it aside for a few days in order not to put a match to it.
Status is that there is a pump in the tank and that pump works when provided with direct 12 Vs.
No fuses blown.
The 3 Multi Terminal Plugs (MTP) all checked and all but the green one, show any sign of heat stress on 2 terminals terminals and the cables attached to those terminals, are not the cables feeding the fuel pump.
20230714_121259.jpg

I have determined that power to the pump is via the black MTP (don't remember which one) and all terminals are clean and shiny - no sign of heat stress.
With ignition on (per se) and that MTP removed, there is no 12Vs to the pump cable.
Question, is there a relay somewhere? Has the immobiliser somehow been activated, and has the BSI gone to sleep? If that's the case, how do I restart / reset?
I'm slowly understanding how frustrating it can get and why Shanado(?) dumped his C5.
Any further help greatly appreciated.
 
Reconnect all MTPs, check power at pink wire at MTP. Check power at tank pump. Ignition on but not on start the pump should operate for a few seconds. I think you're already tried and no pump sound. Wire 12v direct to pink wire through top of connector and pump should start. Drive car home. Could be the engine bay fuse box has given up.
 
Demannu said:
I can fix that for you.....
Click to expand...
Scott that would be fantastic - shame I'm so far away (Armidale NSW). The immobiliser symbol stays on regardless of which key I use. I tried to reprogram the keys but couldn't read them (I have a copy of PP2000 (V6 I think) that is quite new enough for a 406).

Also headlights stay on (unplugged them), and wipers? (can't remember if they go all the time or never) - anyway there are issues beyond the immobiliser issue. The 406 HDi is a 2003 (CANBUS) model, while my SV (that has the LCA issues) is pre-CANBUS (2000 model) so not much I can swap around to test components.

I did read a post from another forum which said the problem could be due to water under the drivers carpet - it was wet under there, but I couldn't see any sign of corrosion (& contact cleaner didn't help). I haven't followed the advice to eliminate the plug and solder the wires together...
 
Andrew D said:
Check your fuse box. These are notorious for failing. So much so one of the CCCNSW members repairs them The relays die and one if for the fuel pump.
Click to expand...
I've not ignored your advise but was hoping to come across the fuel pump relay.
Where is it? Is it under the fuse board that houses the fuses and the MTPs?
May I have the CCCNSW member's details (PM me) please.
20230718_152259.jpg
 
Armidillo said:
Scott that would be fantastic - shame I'm so far away (Armidale NSW). The immobiliser symbol stays on regardless of which key I use. I tried to reprogram the keys but couldn't read them (I have a copy of PP2000 (V6 I think) that is quite new enough for a 406).

Also headlights stay on (unplugged them), and wipers? (can't remember if they go all the time or never) - anyway there are issues beyond the immobiliser issue. The 406 HDi is a 2003 (CANBUS) model, while my SV (that has the LCA issues) is pre-CANBUS (2000 model) so not much I can swap around to test components.

I did read a post from another forum which said the problem could be due to water under the drivers carpet - it was wet under there, but I couldn't see any sign of corrosion (& contact cleaner didn't help). I haven't followed the advice to eliminate the plug and solder the wires together...
Click to expand...
You could always mail me the ECU, I can remove the immobiliser and send it back to you. My method may still leave the car showing an immobiliser issue, but I bypass the part of the code where it checks the immobiliser, so it will start regardless.
 
image000000.jpg

I have a spare BSM with damaged ACond fuse holder, still fully working. Never tried repair on these due to the epoxy coating within, your welcome to it.
same unit from Mk1 C5 diesel.

pm me
 
Gents, this afternoon, after all the checking and prodding of cables, fuses and multi terminal plugs (MTPs) for the last week I've turned the key over just for the hell of it and it burst into life and did not stop.
It ran just like before; why?
To my knowledge, I've undertaken no repairs, changed nothing - what happened?
I should be happy that it's going but I'm not because I don't know why.
Advice from dimistyle and David S in particular to concentrate on the 12V supply pink cable (terminal 8 ?) within the black MTP to the fuel pump Is what I'll be doing to ensure a good solid electrical connection.
Time will tell if it behaves.
By the by, the "reluctant car" may still be sulking despite holding it all together for the trip to Adelaide and back recently.
Once again, thanks for all of your help.
John
 
But you have changed things - you've unwittingly improved one or more bad connections! And it's a Citroen (and the Eye is watching...).

Suggest you read Luthier's latest post on similar issues in Peugeots of similar ages :

Wits End: Cold HDi 2.0 RHR

The Immobilizer design is a bit mysterious, yes. Economy Mode is also obtained through Key voltage issues (I beleive). I key Barrel switch problem(s) frequent on these Barrels ? The central Locking and Indoor/Outdoor settings can trigger Alarm(If not speakered), the Alarm Button/Light should...
www.aussiefrogs.com
 
Armidillo said:
But you have changed things - you've unwittingly improved one or more bad connections! And it's a Citroen (and the Eye is watching...).

Suggest you read Luthier's latest post on similar issues in Peugeots of similar ages :

Wits End: Cold HDi 2.0 RHR

The Immobilizer design is a bit mysterious, yes. Economy Mode is also obtained through Key voltage issues (I beleive). I key Barrel switch problem(s) frequent on these Barrels ? The central Locking and Indoor/Outdoor settings can trigger Alarm(If not speakered), the Alarm Button/Light should...
www.aussiefrogs.com
Click to expand...
Possibly agree Alec but I would have liked to have done / come across something a bit more tangible to feel comfortable with it on its next big outing.
John
 
Update, the Reluctant Car has been mobile now for a while thanks to all of your help.
Repairs however were apparently not perma
20230714_121057.jpg
nent. Pin 8 (pink cable) in this vehicle is the supply line to the pump in the tank. Notwithstanding that pin 8 terminals are not "burnt" or show any sign of heat stress, I obviously need to by pass that connection within that MTP to eliminate that occasional initial non start, it does start on 2nd or 3rd crank if it wants to.
Question, that pink cable is the heaviest within that MTP, will it be OK to connect to any cable (provided that it is active on switching on ignition per se)?
 
JAJEA said:
Update, the Reluctant Car has been mobile now for a while thanks to all of your help.
Repairs however were apparently not permaView attachment 232198nent. Pin 8 (pink cable) in this vehicle is the supply line to the pump in the tank. Notwithstanding that pin 8 terminals are not "burnt" or show any sign of heat stress, I obviously need to by pass that connection within that MTP to eliminate that occasional initial non start, it does start on 2nd or 3rd crank if it wants to.
Question, that pink cable is the heaviest within that MTP, will it be OK to connect to any cable (provided that it is active on switching on ignition per se)?
Click to expand...
You would not believe it! Son dropped off grandson and parked in the driveway behind the Peugeot 508 GT Wagon and b@#$%y Reluctant Car saw that Peugeot in front of it and there it STAYED.
I'll see what's going on tomorrow but I'm convinced that cars are something more than just a hunk of nuts and bolts - they do sulk! Nuts and bolts can't sulk.
John
 
John,

The easyist fix for this problem is probably to replace the BSM module with a known good one. The problem is most likely an intermittant relay in the BSM that connects the battery power to the fuel pump when the engine ECU thinks it is safe to flow fuel and tells the relay to make the contact.

Otherwise if you must keep this BSM, the best fix for is t fit an external relay that triggers fom the lead or CAN signal coming from the engine ECU and connects power from the correct power circuit to the fuel pump power lead. I'm starting to look at electrical diagrams but SEDRE is asking me about the brand of engine ECU the engine has.

Can you tell me what sort of engine ECU this engine has - Siemens, Sagem, Bosch or Magnetti Marelli?

Cheers, Ken
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top