Mmmm, looks like it's been blowing between the two cylinders there?
I'd probably retorque the head sooner rather than later once you've had a bit of a run.
My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari
- Thread starter bleudanube
- Start date
I'd probably retorque the head sooner rather than later once you've had a bit of a run.
Agree, just not sure whether that started after I re- torqued the head a week ago or it has been there since the start… it looked somewhat’fresh’.Mmmm, looks like it's been blowing between the two cylinders there?
I'd probably retorque the head sooner rather than later once you've had a bit of a run.
I will go for decent drives this weekend and then torque it up again.
I was going to say the same thing, Greenpeace beat me to it.
Too late now, but next time you have the gasket out and the head off, I would suggest you check that area for anything abnormal.
You really need to get a decent straight edge and shine some light behind it to catch the problem, both on the head and the block at that point. Go across the spot at a few different angles with a flashlight behind the straight edge until you make sure there's no gap or find where it is.
That problem looks to me like one or both cylinders were leaking compression somehow around the head gasket. It may be that the head doesn't clamp down tight enough or who knows what else. If nothing seems wrong, I would suggest you start torqueing the head from those two bolts in line with the blow. Same idea as normal procedure, go in a spiral around the head but start with those two bolts, maybe the factory recommended sequence does not serve you that well due to some accumulation of tolerances working against you or something like that.
You can see in the second picture obvious darkening between the pistons, flaring out from #2 towards the hole and then across to #1. I would say #2 was blowing. Which is the head face and which is the block face of the gasket, Sven?
Interesting problem.
Too late now, but next time you have the gasket out and the head off, I would suggest you check that area for anything abnormal.
You really need to get a decent straight edge and shine some light behind it to catch the problem, both on the head and the block at that point. Go across the spot at a few different angles with a flashlight behind the straight edge until you make sure there's no gap or find where it is.
That problem looks to me like one or both cylinders were leaking compression somehow around the head gasket. It may be that the head doesn't clamp down tight enough or who knows what else. If nothing seems wrong, I would suggest you start torqueing the head from those two bolts in line with the blow. Same idea as normal procedure, go in a spiral around the head but start with those two bolts, maybe the factory recommended sequence does not serve you that well due to some accumulation of tolerances working against you or something like that.
You can see in the second picture obvious darkening between the pistons, flaring out from #2 towards the hole and then across to #1. I would say #2 was blowing. Which is the head face and which is the block face of the gasket, Sven?
Interesting problem.
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The block face is the one that shows the raised / squashed part of the gasket. The gasket got pushed between the liners into the small gap that exists between the liners 1 and 2. The blacked flat area is towards the head.
I checked the block as well as I could and nothing looked out of place. The liners were all sitting a little above the block as per manual.
I checked the block as well as I could and nothing looked out of place. The liners were all sitting a little above the block as per manual.
What about the head? Did you check it?
These engines also have wet liners.
Well, that settles it. We know what happened. Would be interesting to see why.
I would suggest the liner top face that squashes the gasket fire ring needs checked.
Frans has a very clever way of dealing with such problems. He raises the liners a bit more than per manual (thicker paper gaskets at the bottom) and machines a little step in the top of the liner (on the inner edge) on his lathe. That gives a very small ridge on top of the liner that bites hard (and not too deep, but deep enough) into the fire ring. From memory I think he's got about two thou? Maybe ask him again, it's somewhere on the forum.
Another possibility is that the liners moved when the head was torqued down. Dunno why they would but it does happen. The liner seats need checked in this case. A grain of dust is probably enough to rock the liners out of true.
FWIW, heathen that I am, I set the liners with aviation gasket sealant on both sides of the liner gasket (which is easy to position on the barrel using a ring compressor). I leave them visibly proud of the deck, then set the (recently machined) head on the block and tighten the head bolts. This makes everything flush. I have never had a head gasket problem or a coolant leakage problem in 30+ years, whether DS19, DS21 or T/A. I have a similar technique for the SM and also have never had a head gasket problem and the CR on the SM is 9:1, which is significantly more than the long stroke DS. My theory is that most modern head gaskets are manufactured with the expectation that the deck will be flat and so following the factory manual creates problems.
I also think old head gaskets compressed more (in other words were a bit more "fluffy"). This is comparing OEM Renault 10 (sixties) gaskets vs modern gaskets. It was not unusual when parting the head from the block to find half the gasket stuck on the block and half on the head.
Does this block/head assembly have some way of retaining the gasket in position while you manoeuvre the head in place? Like dowels or such?
Does this block/head assembly have some way of retaining the gasket in position while you manoeuvre the head in place? Like dowels or such?
Normally there is a small pin near one end and a large open dowel near the middle.
Okay, so the possibility that the gasket might have moved is ruled out.
Geez. You have a Merak?! You need to open a thread about it and show us some drool content, man!
Geez. You have a Merak?! You need to open a thread about it and show us some drool content, man!
Oh, c'mon! Is that it?!!
Tell us, show us around, man!
Open a new thread, a new website if you must.
Tell us, show us around, man!
Open a new thread, a new website if you must.
Well, a bit of weekend show and tell completed for the Safari - the car was accepted into this year’s Motorclassica, a show that usually happens every year, but thanks to Covid it missed the last two years. About 250 cars were on show over three days at the Royal Exhibition building - a marvellous backdrop for the cars.
In March I applied for the Safari to be displayed as well as the concourse d’elegance judging and also best resto in the past 12 months - nothing lost!
. Of course I didn’t win anything… the quality of the cars and the money and time spent on their restoration was outstanding and sometimes baffling. Like new, better than new even!
However, the aim was to be part of the show and display the Safari to the masses. It got a lot of positive comments and looks and was certainly one of the quirkiest cars on show. A Renault and a Lorraine-Dietrich were some other French cars I saw… and the Citroen club displayed on Friday.
The Safari was sitting proudly in between Mercs and Maseratis, Jaguars and Lancias - fantastic cars as part of the British & European 1960-70 category.
And to top it off Rusty from the Bumper to Bumper TV show popped by and started to interview me and film the car… let’s see what comes of it. Might go to air in February 23.
All in all a great show and car display - certainly the best of the best and a great opportunity to see the cars close up and size them up as the next project
!
In March I applied for the Safari to be displayed as well as the concourse d’elegance judging and also best resto in the past 12 months - nothing lost!
. Of course I didn’t win anything… the quality of the cars and the money and time spent on their restoration was outstanding and sometimes baffling. Like new, better than new even! However, the aim was to be part of the show and display the Safari to the masses. It got a lot of positive comments and looks and was certainly one of the quirkiest cars on show. A Renault and a Lorraine-Dietrich were some other French cars I saw… and the Citroen club displayed on Friday.
The Safari was sitting proudly in between Mercs and Maseratis, Jaguars and Lancias - fantastic cars as part of the British & European 1960-70 category.
And to top it off Rusty from the Bumper to Bumper TV show popped by and started to interview me and film the car… let’s see what comes of it. Might go to air in February 23.
All in all a great show and car display - certainly the best of the best and a great opportunity to see the cars close up and size them up as the next project
! 
fantastic..... thanks for posting the picciesWell, a bit of weekend show and tell completed for the Safari - the car was accepted into this year’s Motorclassica, a show that usually happens every year, but thanks to Covid it missed the last two years. About 250 cars were on show over three days at the Royal Exhibition building - a marvellous backdrop for the cars.
In March I applied for the Safari to be displayed as well as the concourse d’elegance judging and also best resto in the past 12 months - nothing lost!
However, the aim was to be part of the show and display the Safari to the masses. It got a lot of positive comments and looks and was certainly one of the quirkiest cars on show. A Renault and a Lorraine-Dietrich were some other French cars I saw… and the Citroen club displayed on Friday.
The Safari was sitting proudly in between Mercs and Maseratis, Jaguars and Lancias - fantastic cars as part of the British & European 1960-70 category.
And to top it off Rusty from the Bumper to Bumper TV show popped by and started to interview me and film the car… let’s see what comes of it. Might go to air in February 23.
All in all a great show and car display - certainly the best of the best and a great opportunity to see the cars close up and size them up as the next project
It was great to see your car so well presented at Motorclassica this year. Congratulations. There were some great examples of 60s and 70s vehicles on display (two HT Monaros were quite spectacular).
I have to say that the event was otherwise quite disappointing. There were no restoration operators displaying their services, and only a very few classic car suppliers or dealers (and these were mostly the polish and wax franchisee). Only a couple of current manufacturers - most notably BMW - were there. Much of the floor space on the second level - contrary to previous years - was vacant, and they obviously had to space things out on the ground level. Outside was dominated by high end car dealers such as Lorbek with modern Lambos and Aston Martins for sale. Boring.
Aside from Sven's Safari, the most honest car there was a '69 Alfa 1750, amongst the few private vehicles in the car club display outside. Completely original and unrestored, with the faintest of patina in a light grey colour. I forgot to take a picture.
The biggest challenge for the organisers was the lack of people. The crowd was sparse on a beautiful Sunday morning. In pre-COVID years it was packed. I suspect the take on tickets will put a lot of pressure on the organisers...let's hope this was an interim step to something bigger next year.
I have to say that the event was otherwise quite disappointing. There were no restoration operators displaying their services, and only a very few classic car suppliers or dealers (and these were mostly the polish and wax franchisee). Only a couple of current manufacturers - most notably BMW - were there. Much of the floor space on the second level - contrary to previous years - was vacant, and they obviously had to space things out on the ground level. Outside was dominated by high end car dealers such as Lorbek with modern Lambos and Aston Martins for sale. Boring.
Aside from Sven's Safari, the most honest car there was a '69 Alfa 1750, amongst the few private vehicles in the car club display outside. Completely original and unrestored, with the faintest of patina in a light grey colour. I forgot to take a picture.
The biggest challenge for the organisers was the lack of people. The crowd was sparse on a beautiful Sunday morning. In pre-COVID years it was packed. I suspect the take on tickets will put a lot of pressure on the organisers...let's hope this was an interim step to something bigger next year.
Your car looks fantastic! Lovely to see it displayed like that, thanks for the photos!
Did you measure the liner protrusion? All you need is a straight edge (metal ruler) and a feeler gauge set!
'Aside from Sven's Safari, the most honest car there was a '69 Alfa 1750, amongst the few private vehicles in the car club display outside. Completely original and unrestored, with the faintest of patina in a light grey colour. I forgot to take a picture.'
'Aside from Sven's Safari, the most honest car there was a '69 Alfa 1750, amongst the few private vehicles in the car club display outside. Completely original and unrestored, with the faintest of patina in a light grey colour. I forgot to take a picture.'
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