Pug 308 EB2DTS: rough idle, vibration, loss of power

Doush_504 said:
It's because he doesn't understand the use of this tensioner.
It disengages the water pump to help the engine warm up faster.
In the Peugeot, it's very easy to access. Not their fault that Minis have a micro engine bay.
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I am aware the timing chain tensioners commonly play up with these Prince engines. If you catch the knocking sound early enough (it only occurs on cold start for a few seconds), can you avoid a timing chain + guide change by simply changing the tensioner? I am going to engage an independent specialist mechanic to do this for me. If it needed the whole lot.. well I would have to push Peugeot to contribute as that is unacceptable for a car of this age with full service history, especially as it is a known issue.
 
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Replacing the chain tensioner is a partial solution IMHO.
You'd be better installing the updated kit the using the proper oil spec to make it last.
pugtastic said:
I am aware the timing chain tensioners commonly play up with these Prince engines. If you catch the knocking sound early enough (it only occurs on cold start for a few seconds), can you avoid a timing chain + guide change by simply changing the tensioner? I am going to engage an independent specialist mechanic to do this for me. If it needed the whole lot.. well I would have to push Peugeot to contribute as that is unacceptable for a car of this age with full service history, especially as it is a known issue.
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My understanding is that BMW LL01 meets ACEA A3/B3 and API SJ/CD EC-II,

I have been using Quartz Ineo ECS in my EP6DT (PSA's name), the same as used for my HDI car.
 
I'm on my fourth THP engine (and still own two of them).

I've not experienced any of the issues with this engine, thankfully.
 
Doush_504 said:
Their are quite reliable if you use BMW LL01 oil.
If you're going to use the shitty low SAPS oil recommended by PSA, then expect to hate the car, the engine & PSA after a few years of ownership.
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Ok so why do mini’s and one series have the same issues when they run that oil you sound like peugeot Australia no no we have fixed it this time.
 
That's good to hear SLC206. It was my understanding that these later gen Prince engines were much improved. I have been very happy with the car mechanically, and it is just beautiful to drive, but over the past couple days given myself a headache reading into all the horror stories. To me it sounds like as long as you replace the tensioner quickly you can avoid doing the whole lot. I am going to get this done soon. If it does not fix the problem, then will be pushing Peugeot for a goodwill repair as there should not be timing chain issues on a 6 year old car with full service history and under 80k km. My issue at the moment is only very minor, and infact it is not always there, sometimes I start it up and it runs fine. Other times I get a few seconds of rattle, then its gone. So very strange and only early days. Getting an independent mechanic to take a look and install new tensioner soon.
 
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I can't wait until someone on here pulls the sump off one of these one day and finds half a meter of Oil Pump Control Solenoid wiring harness sitting in the oil in the sump..... Much improved.
 
James504 said:
I can't wait until someone on here pulls the sump off one of these one day and finds half a meter of Oil Pump Control Solenoid wiring harness sitting in the oil in the sump..... Much improved.
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Yeap but at least it’s not leaking out the plug 😂 just the exhaust
 
KrisPat said:
Hello all.

I am at the brink of giving up in despair with my manual 308 (2015 non GTi). The problem started when it died with all lights flashing on the dashboard + limp mode during a long-ish drive on the motorway back in Jan 2021. I towed it to a nearest mechanic who replaced the spark plugs and got me going. But the car wasn't as smooth. I took it to the authorised service centre who identified the spark plugs being wrong and replaced them again. The car still wasn't as smooth - I mean engine vibrated at high speeds. I was told it will take some time to "learn". A few months later I took it to another authorised service centre who advised me that the problem is due to carbon buildup and will need a walnut blasting process that costs upwards of 2000 AUD. I took another opinion from the first service centre (who had replaced the spark plugs) and they too told me the same + VVT solenoid servicing (or replacement) with a total estimate of 3000+ AUD.

Fault code (according to the service centre) is:

PE0091 = super knock and intake VVT solenoid. Vehicle will require carbon clean $2500 supplied and fitted. VVT solenoid for manifold $500 supplied and fitted.

Car has around 60K on the odo (30K under my ownership) and my use is 80% motorway, 20% suburban.

A few more opinions I've received from other service centres were:
- vibration is due to the engine mount.
- vibration is due to the transmission mount.
- vibration is due to the drive shaft/ cv-axle.

I know of carbon buildup problems in direct injection engines but that is easily solved with carby cleaners. This car however seems to have been built in a way that is next to impossible to carry out such servicing at home - I couldn't find the intake valve to spray in the cleaner, seems it sits at the back of the engine underneath the windshield.

Fuel additive seems to have helped to some extent. May be I should repeat this additive a few more times? This also reminds me that I must admit I've used the wrong fuel (E10) during first 4 to 5 months of my ownership but that was back in early 2019. I've been using premium 95 since.

Is it safe to plug in my own generic OBD2 scanner to try and figure out myself?
Can someone please also suggest me a service centre who can help me with the throttle body clean without having to go through the walnut blast process- i.e. using Liqui Moly, CRC, etc.? The authorised service centre flatly refused to do this and are pushing me for the expensive walnut blasting process instead.

TIA.
- Kris.
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A customer brought his Peugeot vehicle with THP163 engine and had same symptoms you listed, including the error definitions you mentioned here, some other related faults. I asked and he showed engine oils he put when the issues started and they were 10w-40 & 20w-50 mixed together.

I drained the crap and poured in the recommended Peugeot oil for the engine, cleared the faults and the faults were no more .

People complained a lot about THP engines which most times were not the engine faults. Yes, they are not perfect engines, but not as bad they are portrayed. All my clients and customers THP users that have been using the recommend engine oil have never have all these all THP notorious issues.

Recommended Total oil for Nigerian environment is Total Quartz Ineo HTC 5w-30 and for about 3 years or so now, none of them have had issues with theirs. When not available, I use Mobil oil with PSA oil certification B71 2297.

Lion-King Monk.
 
pugtastic said:
Peugeot have persisted with the Prince engine and it is in all their current models, so guess we can expect these owners to be experiencing the same issues in a few years time. Amazing that they still have not perfected these engines after all these years, and I have learnt the chain, tensioner and guides have all been revised numerous times. I got a tensioner today and will be installing it ASAP and hope it fixes the problem, I have caught it early and it's only minor, doesn't sound as bad as those Mini's in the video above. Getting the cover off the engine to examine the top guide seems a bit tricky and I don't want to have to install a new gasket, so will be crossing my fingers its just the tensioner causing the issue as that is an easy replacement. It's a shame because these engines are great when running properly.
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I have two Prince engines in my THP Pugs. The RCZ THP200 prince has been improved drastically (from 2013) over the first gen Prince motors. I have had no issues what so ever.

Re my THP150 Prince (manuf. 2009), I had issues with carbon build up. Cleaned the intake valves myself with picks, brushes and SA459. Was a 6 hour job. Cost to me was about $100. Following that I run a can of SA459 through the intake at every oil change since. No issues and motor at 145,000 klicks is like new.

Also Change oil every 5,000 klicks with the filter every 10,000. It does not burn any oil what so ever between changes, same with the RCZ. Always use BP Ultimate 98RON. Castrol Edge 5w30. BMW LL-1 certified. And Redline Fuel Cleaner.

Yes, I have had the common issues like timing chain and tensioner (replaced at 100,000), Turbo, (replaced at 120,000), thermostat replaced at 130,000, and all main five pressure sensors over its life. Regular spark plug changes every 30,000, coils once. Other wear and tear items like brakes, clutch, shocks, oxygen sensors.

My Prince engines are on song.

Check this out:
https://www.etuners.gr/peugeot-citroen-thp-engine-maintenance-servicing-101/

Secret to fix carbon build up is SA459.

SA459.jpg
 
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207cc Sport said:
I have two Prince engines in my THP Pugs. The RCZ THP200 prince has been improved drastically (from 2013) over the first gen Prince motors. I have had no issues what so ever.

Re my THP150 Prince (manuf. 2009), I had issues with carbon build up. Cleaned the intake valves myself with picks, brushes and SA459. Was a 6 hour job. Cost to me was about $100. Following that I run a can of SA459 through the intake at every oil change since. No issues and motor at 145,000 klicks is like new.

Also Change oil every 5,000 klicks with the filter every 10,000. It does not burn any oil what so ever between changes, same with the RCZ. Always use BP Ultimate 98RON. Castrol Edge 5w30. BMW LL-1 certified. And Redline Fuel Cleaner.

Yes, I have had the common issues like timing chain and tensioner (replaced at 100,000), Turbo, (replaced at 120,000), thermostat replaced at 130,000, and all main five pressure sensors over its life. Regular spark plug changes every 30,000, coils once. Other wear and tear items like brakes, clutch, shocks, oxygen sensors.

My Prince engines are on song.

Check this out:
https://www.etuners.gr/peugeot-citroen-thp-engine-maintenance-servicing-101/

Secret to fix carbon build up is SA459.

View attachment 138088
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This is great, but for a regular owner that would use a workshop to do the work that's a fairly expensive service schedule that seems over the top considering these engines are in regular boring cars, not exotic sports cars.
 
lowpugV2 said:
This is great, but for a regular owner that would use a workshop to do the work that's a fairly expensive service schedule that seems over the top considering these engines are in regular boring cars, not exotic sports cars.
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The RCZ is NOT Boring:

I just like my Pugs. BTY, the Prince engine in the RCZ-R is the most powerful 1.6 litre from a production line. 270 bhp.

I do most of my servicing. For big stuff I have my own Pug Master Mechanic. I buy the parts and he does the work at half dealership charges. WIN/WIN



and they win races. First in their class here:

 
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Does anyone know where the Prince name for this engine comes from? I have the original 2004 and 2006 announcements from PSA and BMW and neither uses the term. I have never seen a PSA document that didn't always say EP6,

I have some French training documents, from non PSA sources like tech colleges, and again nobody says Prince.

If it's a code name from the design stage, it might be from BMW.
 
seasink said:
Does anyone know where the Prince name for this engine comes from? I have the original 2004 and 2006 announcements from PSA and BMW and neither uses the term. I have never seen a PSA document that didn't always say EP6,

I have some French training documents, from non PSA sources like tech colleges, and again nobody says Prince.

If it's a code name from the design stage, it might be from BMW.
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I don't know. Hope this helps:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_engine#1.6_litre_turbocharged_(PSA)

https://motor-car.net/bmw-engine/item/16082-prince-engine
 
The word's origin isn't mentioned in those articles, and it isn't used in the original references. I am starting to wonder if it is a press invention. If it was a designers' code I cannot find a source.
 
seasink said:
Does anyone know where the Prince name for this engine comes from? I have the original 2004 and 2006 announcements from PSA and BMW and neither uses the term. I have never seen a PSA document that didn't always say EP6,

I have some French training documents, from non PSA sources like tech colleges, and again nobody says Prince.

If it's a code name from the design stage, it might be from BMW.
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I recall reading the phrase 'Project Prince', probably in Engine Technology International (magazine targeted for OEM's) when the 1.6 Turbo engine won the 2007 1.4 to 1.8 Engine of the Year award.
www.ukimediaevents.com/engineoftheyear/archive.php
www.enginetechnologyinternational.com

Googling comes up with a few PSA resumes using the term 'Prince Project'.

cv1a.jpg


cv2.jpg
 
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Those articles post-date the engine's introduction (the EP6CDTX is a late incarnation). Searching the linked websites came up empty too. A site search of Engine Technology International only yields Prince George and a Dr Prince.

When M. Malmaison used the word, years after, is he adopting a usage that does not come from PSA? Is Prince Project a BMW expression? "Prince Project - EP6DT" in the CV suggests that.
 
seasink said:
Those articles post-date the engine's introduction (the EP6CDTX is a late incarnation). Searching the linked websites came up empty too. A site search of Engine Technology International only yields Prince George and a Dr Prince.

When M. Malmaison used the word, years after, is he adopting a usage that does not come from PSA? Is Prince Project a BMW expression? "Prince Project - EP6DT" in the CV suggests that.
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Alas, appears the ETI online archive only goes back to 2014, and I've turfed my paper copies from the naughties so am unable to confirm where/when I read the moniker.
 
207cc Sport said:
The RCZ is NOT Boring:

I just like my Pugs. BTY, the Prince engine in the RCZ-R is the most powerful 1.6 litre from a production line. 270 bhp.

I do most of my servicing. For big stuff I have my own Pug Master Mechanic. I buy the parts and he does the work at half dealership charges. WIN/WIN



and they win races. First in their class
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Yep but the point is the normal 1.6 turbos are fitted to appliance cars and in non dual vvt turbo form they are unreliable for every day cars thp 200 and 270s are much better but still have soft heads and rings and as the original poster has a 2015 "fixed" ep6 it proves the point of myself and James on here they are not long term motors you yourself have said you've done chains turbo and all the sensors and coils
 
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