1959 4cv Restoration in North Carolina USA
- Thread starter Stan W
- Start date
I haven't tried a vibrating tumbler, but walnut shells work fine in a rotary tumbler for more delicate parts.
Does the cone shaped metal filter come loose from the top housing? I haven't tried to pry it off yet. I was thinking about a K&N filter - I used them on my MGA.
I finally have my axles back on the gearbox. I had to use a clamp to get the cups on the axles. After a few hours, most of the air had escaped. The swing movement is a bit stiff, probably due to a tiny bit of misalignment due to the wear on the axle part of the trunnion. I could try rotating the steel cups and re-torquing, but I don't want to go to the trouble unless it is necessary.
Does the cone shaped metal filter come loose from the top housing? I haven't tried to pry it off yet. I was thinking about a K&N filter - I used them on my MGA.
I finally have my axles back on the gearbox. I had to use a clamp to get the cups on the axles. After a few hours, most of the air had escaped. The swing movement is a bit stiff, probably due to a tiny bit of misalignment due to the wear on the axle part of the trunnion. I could try rotating the steel cups and re-torquing, but I don't want to go to the trouble unless it is necessary.
A few miles should fix that! You'll never known anyway.
Sorry, no idea about the filter question - never seen one of yours in the flesh.Since you aren't worried about the axles, I won't be either . I will put the springs back tomorrow. I was thinking of re-using the crossmember rubber mounts since they appear to be in very good condition. Is this a bad idea? I would use new ones, but I am not ready to place an order with the French suppliers yet. The motor mounts haven't broken in half yet, but they are pretty bad and will be replaced.
The tecalemit air filter appears to be welded together. Removing the cone shaped part does not look easy. I will find a way... It would be relatively easy to install a K&N filter inside the housing once I remove the old metal filter media. I saw a CD with the part book you mentioned - is this the one?
Here are pictures of the air filter:
. I will put the springs back tomorrow. I was thinking of re-using the crossmember rubber mounts since they appear to be in very good condition. Is this a bad idea? I would use new ones, but I am not ready to place an order with the French suppliers yet. The motor mounts haven't broken in half yet, but they are pretty bad and will be replaced.The tecalemit air filter appears to be welded together. Removing the cone shaped part does not look easy. I will find a way... It would be relatively easy to install a K&N filter inside the housing once I remove the old metal filter media. I saw a CD with the part book you mentioned - is this the one?
Here are pictures of the air filter:
A little about the engine - probably the one that came in the car, but it had a rough life and then sat in a shed for 50 years. The crankshaft has not been machined, but will probably need it now. The camshaft is fine, but all the lifters are badly corroded on the underside. The block has a small crack in the web, I have found someone nearby who can weld it properly and may get it done this week. The engine has been rebuild before. There are small dings in the head on cylinders 3 and 4 - indicating broken rings or something similar. The pistons that came out of the engine are undamaged and have four rings instead of three and one is below the piston pin - are they original or replacements? I am guessing replacements. Today I finally got the rocker oil feed orifice out of the block after 6 weeks of trying penetrating oil and heat!
Since the engine was put together with the dings in the head, I would not expect that it has been surfaced. On the other hand, the head measures around 94mm from the valve cover gasket surface to the head gasket surface - which makes me think it was surfaced. It doesn't appear to be uneven more than .003". I will get the head gasket surface skimmed as little as possible. I am planning on using the Dauphine size cylinders and pistons. The various manuals show the combustion chamber volume to be the same for the 4cv and Dauphine. There are a number of head heights and combustion chamber volumes. The only ones I am concerned with are for an 8:1 compression ratio. The water distribution tube in the head is rusted badly on the water pump end, so it needs to be replaced. The engine number is shown below, the oval tag is 865769. Do you think it is the original?
Since the engine was put together with the dings in the head, I would not expect that it has been surfaced. On the other hand, the head measures around 94mm from the valve cover gasket surface to the head gasket surface - which makes me think it was surfaced. It doesn't appear to be uneven more than .003". I will get the head gasket surface skimmed as little as possible. I am planning on using the Dauphine size cylinders and pistons. The various manuals show the combustion chamber volume to be the same for the 4cv and Dauphine. There are a number of head heights and combustion chamber volumes. The only ones I am concerned with are for an 8:1 compression ratio. The water distribution tube in the head is rusted badly on the water pump end, so it needs to be replaced. The engine number is shown below, the oval tag is 865769. Do you think it is the original?
I don't know about the engine to be honest, but original seems more likely than not. Those lifters look as if they weren't rotating. Maybe it was left for a long time and then restarted without a good dismantle and check? Square dings.... Must be rings.... My car has four-ring pistons, a replacement non-Renault kit. You'll get the block refaced or is it suitably flat? The key thing is getting the sleeves proud of the block surface - I don't know whether this is the same for the narrower rings on those later engines, but I've measured a 4 thou squish in those rings on my own engine on dismantling, so I don't trust less than 5-6 thou proud with new copper rings. But, I'm a geologist not a mechanic.......
I don't know about USA, but here the head reconditioners seem to be bronze-sleeving and reaming valve guides in preference to pressing the old ones out.
You're on a roll over there!
I don't know about USA, but here the head reconditioners seem to be bronze-sleeving and reaming valve guides in preference to pressing the old ones out.
You're on a roll over there!
He is John. wow, won't be long now
On the cleaning side, out of interest, what is used to clean the heads old gaskets off?
I am reasonably sure the block is suitably flat. I don't want to surface the block or the sleeves may be too tall. I will make sure the sleeves are proud of the block - thanks for the reminder. I will get the block welded before ordering any more parts - I want to make sure I have a good block before going any further.
The newly made copper rings are all 1.00 mm thick I think. You used to be able to get them from 0,90 to 1.05 in 0.05 mm increments but you have to find NOS kits for them. Some folk shim them (underneath) with stainless steel or brass shim stock and careful work with sharp scissors. My own block is a thou or so warped, irregularly! But the sleeves are pretty evenly proud around their circumferences. They don't have to be identical or perfect, but lower than the block after torquing and running is fatal.
I used a blunt screwdriver that didn't scratch the alloy last time, but I guess a good scraper and maybe a solvent cleaner would be better! Light rub with fine wet and dry paper to finish. I've no doubt there are better approaches by those who do it professionally. Once you get these engines right they don't need touching often. My 4CV head has only been off twice since 1970 and the R8 never since the 1988 rebuild.He is John. wow, won't be long now
On the cleaning side, out of interest, what is used to clean the heads old gaskets off?
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If you weld the block it may warp. Either way, for peace of mind I would take it to a surface plate and see what I have. They may be able to check the tunnel bore for you as well, a must I would say.
Yes, and if only a few thou come off (not ten of them....) you'll likely be OK regarding proudness. I reckon 2 thou would be quite enough to trim mine. Here it is called "decking the block".
Always good to have a spare block.
I wonder why yours cracked?
Frozen maybe? Less of a problem here.
There's better ways to make some pretty darn good shims if you have a lathe or access to someone who does. Even without a lathe a nice circle cutter can do wonders using shim stock.
Now that's lateral thinking.... I can't think of anything else, now you've mentioned it!
Does it get that cold in North Carolina?
It can get well below freezing, but where did the car come from????
The car has always been in North Carolina USA. It could freeze here. I have seen blocks badly cracked by freezing - they not only cracked at the web between cylinders 2 and 3, but also cracked all along the left side of the engine under the manifolds. The crack under the manifolds usually went almost the entire length of the engine. The web between cylinders 2 and 3 had big gap at the crack in these cases. I have heard of people welding up these badly cracked blocks, but I wouldn't do it. I have been told that overheating could crack the web of the block, but who knows. Some of the machine shops that looked at it didn't think it was necessarily abused, and they weren't really concerned about it being a problem. I don't think the block will warp since it is such a small part of it that is being heated and welded. Even if the part being welded is red hot, the bottom of the block will not be very hot. We call it "decking the block" here also. I agree that a couple of thousandths would not be a problem.
We've seen some crack along the block too - overtightened or liquid under the head bolts? I've never heard of such cracks being welded - I guess there have always been enough blocks around to allow them just to be thrown away. Sounds like you are well on top of this!!
I am nearly ready to reinstall the gearbox and rear suspension. How much should I tighten the nuts on the "saddle" that fastens the gearbox to the crossmember? The crossmember appears to be tight against the saddle and the gearbox, but there is a small gap between the saddle and the gearbox on one side.
There are no instructions on installing the head water distribution tube in my 4cv or Dauphine service manuals. I still have my R5 service manual, and it covers the 1221 which had the Ventoux engine. It gives detailed instructions on removing and installing the tube, even giving the orientation of the holes - pointing towards the exhaust valve seats.
There are no instructions on installing the head water distribution tube in my 4cv or Dauphine service manuals. I still have my R5 service manual, and it covers the 1221 which had the Ventoux engine. It gives detailed instructions on removing and installing the tube, even giving the orientation of the holes - pointing towards the exhaust valve seats.