performance enhancements of a peugeot 504 saloon

It seems this "shop" has a modification "formula" so it's possible the non custom parts have been ratted for other projects.

Anyway it's not a project I'd pursue, because it not going to be Pug anymore when it's complete. It's just a 504 donor shell with Toyota, Holden and various parts cobbled up to propel it and keep it off the ground. The project would end up just as well with a Toyota donor shell.

Not to say that i don't appreciate the innovation and custom creativity, and the performance of the project.

However the outcome just doesn't sit well in my mindset of owning Peugeot 504s.
 
The PRV6 conversion seems to be the preferred. Coupled to the original equipment GM automatic box simplifies things. The manual Peugeot boxes are like ostrich teeth!
The PRV6 engine weighs little more than the 2 litre XN engine. Very little handling penalty.
Any alternate engine / gearbox being considered has to take in the mating of the box to the torque tube drive. It has been done I know but not without considerable engineering nouse.

The later PSA E6 engine mentioned, isn't that a transversely mounted front wheel drive? If so swinging it around 90 degrees would require a gearbox to suit.:eek:
 
Perhaps someone could explain why the torque tube is so vital - if considering 'non-genuine' engine & gearbox, why not ditch the torque tube?

Cheers

Alec
 
tankana23 said:
hi john. i am reading your blog and i can surely say it is quite helpful. you are a patient man, and quite insightful. i am curious though. you used the prv v6 from the 505, do you think the psa es engine manufactured from 1997 to 2010 can be fitted as easily? on top of that did you do any further upgrades to the engine or you kept it stock?
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Not the V6, but the 2.2 litre 4 cylinder EFI. In Australia this engine is found in the 505 GTI, or the 505 STI with mechanical fuel injection. It's a relatively straightforward swap. The main parts bolt straight in.

My 504 handles brilliantly and rides just fine with the changes I made. In regards to cutting the front springs which some disapprove of, 504 or 505 springs have more coils than most cars and are relatively soft, so with 1 coil removed they still have plenty left, and are a bit less soft than they were! 😉

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pekay49 said:
Maybe you do not understand what you have in your hands.Your car 'may' be a little different to the 1.8 l 504's that were released in Aus. in 1969....eg. ours had rear discs.

Wheels Australia Magazine 1969.....Two gentlemen from Wheels were sitting at the Intersection of Sydney Rd,& Bell St.Coburg.
5 pm...winter.....radio on at a comfortable level.
They headed Albury /Wodonga...183 MILES....a goat track by todays standards...high volume of trucks heading up that same [Hume] Highway ,to Sydney.

THEY STUCK TO THE 'PRIMA FACIA' SPEEDS THROUGH TOWN--IE. THE SPEED LIMIT.OPEN SPEED LIMIT THE REST OF THE WAY.

WITH THE WIND & THE RAIN----WITHOUT TURNING UP THE RADIO VOLUME AS NOT NECESSARY----THEY PULLED UP IN WODONGA AS THE RADIO PIPPED 7 P.M.

It was ONLY 183 MILES in 2 HOURS......From my memory 22.5 m.p.g.TOP SPEED???? 108 mph.??

If anyone thinks that a G.T. Falcon OR a 327 Monaro would have bettered that they would be sadly mistaken.

I am not saying that you should not do a TRANSPLANT on your car-as far as I know it would be reasonably simple BUT you need to know what you actually have in your hands----one of the most amazing cars ever built.

For mine...find a nice 505 & appreciate both cars....hopefully your rego. costs would not prohibit this---maybe you are fortunate to have 'Club' Rego's as we have here.

If you are thinking of a straight 6 then I assure you that you will mess up a magnificent car as the weight distribution will be messed up---handling will go out the door PLUS a 6cyl will be far less efficient....a 504 had 51% at the front-49% rear.

Many people over the years have informed that 'cars are all the same'.I assure you that is a senseless statement by people who do not understand engineering.

Hope that helps you make a decision that is best for yourself.

P.S. From memory above info is accurate...if not it is certainly not 'over the fence'.Long time since I have re-read the article.
Maybe someone has access to same and could post it.I would call it a history making article.A 1.8 l family sedan top speed 108 mph?averaging 91.5 mph on a traffic ridden 'dodgy brothers' highway ...in the middle of winter at NIGHT.......GIVE ME A BREAK KIT KAT.
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Having grown up in Wangaratta (70 kms - 40 miles south of Wodonga) and then moved to Melbourne in 1970 I can assure you that no one would have been able to drive from Coburg to Wodonga in 2 hours

It would have taken 10 minutes minimum to get to the Craigieburn freeway and at least 20 - 25 minutes to get through all of the towns on the old highway which leaves about 165 miles in 1 hour 25 minutes!!

The best time I ever achieved from Bell Street to Wangaratta (in the late 70s with significantly more freeways) was 90 minutes - on a Z1B Kawasaki which was just a bit quicker than a 1.8 litre 504. I can speak with some experience as I have owned an early 504


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Armidillo said:
Perhaps someone could explain why the torque tube is so vital - if considering 'non-genuine' engine & gearbox, why not ditch the torque tube?

Cheers

Alec
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Because it is part of the engine and transmission and diff mounting arrangements.

It is possible to dispense with the TT, but if you use Peugeot Trans and diff, it adds another of complexity to stabilise and mount them satisfactorily.

It's not a problem, obviously, if you are using a 504 shell to create a frankenpug vehicle.
 
omearag said:
Having grown up in Wangaratta (70 kms - 40 miles south of Wodonga) and then moved to Melbourne in 1970 I can assure you that no one would have been able to drive from Coburg to Wodonga in 2 hours

It would have taken 10 minutes minimum to get to the Craigieburn freeway and at least 20 - 25 minutes to get through all of the towns on the old highway which leaves about 165 miles in 1 hour 25 minutes!!

The best time I ever achieved from Bell Street to Wangaratta (in the late 70s with significantly more freeways) was 90 minutes - on a Z1B Kawasaki which was just a bit quicker than a 1.8 litre 504. I can speak with some experience as I have owned an early 504


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I've read that story, not sure if the time or distance but I think they sat on 150-160km/h.

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Original story about that time was a bit fateful for those of us who like driving fast

It was in Wheels and involved Phase 3 GTHO Foulcan. Involved trip from Ford factory on Hume Hwy ( bit outta town, so less time wasted at traffic lights ) to Albury, which was about 200 miles in the old money

They claimed to have done it in two hours, so average about 160k, which presumably involved doing 200 where they could. Wrote up the Foulcan as the pinnacle of modern motoring excellence etc etc etc

It produced mega moral panic about crazed speed demons roaming our streets and frightening the horses, making milk go sour in the cow and disrupting church services. Not long after that we got blanket speed limits and manufacturers came under all sorts of pressure to slow their cars down.

In the case of cars with the brakes and handling of the GTHO this may have been no bad thing, but it did make life rather more difficult for the rest of us.

Would perhaps be possible in a quick 504, but one would need unusual determination and a pretty clear run ( but would probably frighten rather fewer horses )

Andrew


peujohn said:
I've read that story, not sure if the time or distance but I think they sat on 150-160km/h.

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I'm sure there is a Wheels story about a quick trip at high speed in a 504!

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In the 1980s my father had an (ordinary) Falcon, while I had an (ordinary) 504 (it did have slightly better tyres than the standard XZXs). The Falcon naturally had a big, thirsty 6-cylinder engine, & was much quicker off the line, but roll-on acceleration in top gear was about the same. I would say that the 504 was more comfortable at higher cruising speeds - ie it could hold the speed easily, and felt very stable on the road (particularly so on gravel, although I didn't travel as fast on gravel) - but I would say that wouldn't I - I'm biased! Naturally the Pug had better fuel economy :D.

Cruising at 90 (mph - my Pug dated from the early '70s, so speedo was still in mph) you noticed a little more engine noise than at lower speeds. When kangaroos/wallabies jumped out in front of you, and you got the calipers on the 4-wheel disks biting hard, everything on seats (including kids) slid off onto floor.

Cheers

Aec
 
hi peujohn thank you for the clarification. but im still curious about the 505 v6. if you had used that, would the swap be as simple. what would be the challanges to anticipate.
 
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A pic of an ex 4 cylinder 505 complete with 505V6 engine, does not look too complicated (Or does it? :wink2:)
 
tankana23 said:
hi peujohn thank you for the clarification. but im still curious about the 505 v6. if you had used that, would the swap be as simple. what would be the challanges to anticipate.
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No straight answer for that. If it was a carburettor V6 it would probably be easier than the 4 cylinder EFI conversion I did. Manual V6 parts are hard to find in Australia. What parts or donor cars would you have access to there?

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john. i can have access to any part you may suggest. im not sticking local, im thinkimg global. where ever that component may be i will get it. having a v6 with fuel injection or which can be fitted with an after market fuel injection system is a priority on this. i need to power in the 200s hp. what do you have in mind?
 
yes i have the engineering skill. in fact i have a team of technicians at my disporsal. the finance is there but with such projects it is usually never enough. my strategy will involve making a design scheme, then i will group similar problems and solve them one at a time untill it is complete. it will take time. luckily i have the patience, lots of it
 
This thread is to funny.

Pff to the rest, what you really want is 2 x Tesla sets turning it into a 4WD demon
 
tankana23 said:
yes i have the engineering skill. in fact i have a team of technicians at my disporsal. the finance is there but with such projects it is usually never enough. my strategy will involve making a design scheme, then i will group similar problems and solve them one at a time untill it is complete. it will take time. luckily i have the patience, lots of it
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Perhaps you could tell us about some of your past projects? I'm sure we'd all be very interested!

Cheers

Alec
 
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