Removing bonded roof 74' D Special

Thanks Michael :wink2:

...back to an earlier question, clips #27 in your attached drawing? Mine has several, a few rusted and not useable, what are these supposed to do, and where should they be fitted?

Cheers
Chris
 
Part number 27? You have me stumped.

The car I bought was partly disassembled when I bought it so it has been a bit of a guessing game putting it back together. I actually found a couple of those parts in the boot but did not know where they belonged.. Working from the drawing it looks like they are fastened to the inner face of the roof frame with small spring clips and the bowed end may well be intended to help centralise the roof when it is bonded in place. When I find mine I will try them in that location to test my theory.
 
michaelr said:
Part number 27? You have me stumped.

The car I bought was partly disassembled when I bought it so it has been a bit of a guessing game putting it back together. I actually found a couple of those parts in the boot but did not know where they belonged.. Working from the drawing it looks like they are fastened to the inner face of the roof frame with small spring clips and the bowed end may well be intended to help centralise the roof when it is bonded in place. When I find mine I will try them in that location to test my theory.
Click to expand...

...haha, I've just re-read Tony Jackson's PDF D.825-4 Replacement of bonded roof... :wink2:

Your theory is sound, there should be 8 (roof locating lugs) in total, and they're to centralise the roof when re-fitting.

Thanks again Michael.

Cheers
Chris
 
17 Bolt Roof

Well I finally bit the bullet and took the roof off.
Had to drill the screw out of one of the cones then they come off OK,
next had to drill out the screw over the windscreen, which is a pain as it is tapped into the chassis rail and needs to be drilled right through and retapped.
The front trim comes off easily then the side trims are pigs to get off without damaging them. I finally used the back off some electrical ducting and slid that down the trim and used it to twist the trim off the chassis (first 4 pictures)
then take out all 17 bolts and making sure not to miss the two behind the sun visor clips.
Lay on the back seat, feet on the roof and push up and it pops up fairly easily.

The chassis only has a little rust on the outside rail edge and nothing inside. (7th picture)

My issue now is the 17 bolt fibreglass roof has a metal edge all the way round and on mine this has badly rusted. (the last pictures)


All the staining on the fibreglass is from this metal edge.

Does anyone know how or where to get this metal edge replaced?
it is too far gone to repair.
 

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Techbuy said:
My issue now is the 17 bolt fibreglass roof has a metal edge all the way round and on mine this has badly rusted. (the last pictures)

Does anyone know how or where to get this metal edge replaced?
it is too far gone to repair.
Click to expand...

Nice work Colin (did you have one of those OMG what have I done moments... ) :wink2:

Hey, I can only guess where you go from here, I would think you can't ecomonically repair the fibreglass roof metal frame. You either source one in good condition (good luck) or convert to the bonded roof?

The lip on your roof (once the metal has been removed) looks a little wider than my bonded roof? This may need to be adjusted at least at the points that you would fix the bonded roof type brackets - minimum front, and sides located just behind the B pillar.

As I said just a guess, others will give more informed opinions :wink2:

Cheers
Chris
 
GreenBlood said:
Nice work Colin (did you have one of those OMG what have I done moments... ) :wink2:
Click to expand...

OH YES! i sure did and now with the look of the metal lip on the roof in such a ratty state I am at a bit of a loss on how to fix it.
Most roofs if you could find one will probably be in a similar state.
It looks like the original metal was crimped onto the fibreglass so even getting a metal rim for it how on earth would one crimp it back on.

I am thinking of fibreglassing the metal lugs in place and putting a fibreglass bead all round the edge by lining the roof channel with plastic and laying up a fibreglass mound of the channel, from that I can position the roof on this moulded channel and glass it onto the roof modify the rubber seal and lots of Sikaflex 291 should be water tight and still let me get that bain of the roof removers life "The Trim" back on.

Sounds like I will be a very busy bee for the next few months working this out.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers

Colin:wink2:
 
Colin, if it were me I'd go the bonded roof route. Remove any metal attached to the fibreglass, cut the lip from your roof and use the fixing clips as per bonded roof.

1484_item_pltw_dak_klem-0019.jpg

N.B. this is the clip for the front, the side clip has the slotted hole at 90degrees

These are crimped to the side and front of the roof, and fixed with the aid of an epoxy adhesive.

attachment.php

N.B. My roof does not have the side ledge that your bolt on roof has.

I have ordered new replacements with a couple of spares.

Cheers
Chris
 

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Thanks for the idea.
I have had it up on the work bench and despite the rust on the outer edge the inside and front out side are in good condition.
So, the worst outside rust I will clean up use rust converter and then encase these areas in glass, this will keep the water and damp out as well as oxygen so all being well it wont rust again for another 30 years or so, by which time it will be the childrens worry..LOL...

I am pretty sure I can protect and strengthen the badly rusted areas with fibreglass.
I will experiment over the next weeks and see what works or not.

Appreciate the encouragement and helpful ideas.


Colin
 
Techbuy said:
I am thinking of fibreglassing the metal lugs in place and putting a fibreglass bead all round the edge by lining the roof channel with plastic and laying up a fibreglass mound of the channel, from that I can position the roof on this moulded channel and glass it onto the roof modify the rubber seal and lots of Sikaflex 291 should be water tight and still let me get that bain of the roof removers life "The Trim" back on.
Colin:wink2:
Click to expand...

I think you are on to a good idea there and in my opinion likely to be successful. In fact I am surprised that Citroen did not do it originally instead of encasing that silly steel flange in damp rubber.. but as Greenblood suggested the conversion to bonded would be easier.
 
Don't bother with it..... As time went on, neither did Citroen!!
You can make up the two small side and rear clamps, and centre front. These are the only vital securing points. The rest of the metal frame is best dispensed with.

SKP
 
Yet another example of M. Citroen being too clever for his own good and the long term interests of the customer.
The D bodywork would have been better and more rigid it a proper all metal roof was used and welded into the hull to make a unitary centre cabin structure.More durt and rust proof too. Cross bracing from centre pillar to centre pillar could have been used as well as a fore / aft bracing from the centre of the windscreen to the rear window "hoop"..Triumph Stag style. Ds do flex..maybe that was the reason for the glass roof.

I am amazed at how a Safari can get by with just a perimeter frame...but then they do have metal not glass.

Larger sheet pressings were readily achieved after all the entire traction range was unitary and the roof of a Safari is a big steel pressing.
Perhaps they were intent on using new materials or lowering the centre of gravity, but these roofs leaked almost from new...there never was a D saloon without water stains in the headlining back corners..then the foam dies and droops and the brushed nylon sucks off after opening a door..usually on a wet day when the door seal gaskets actually work and a partial vacuum is created by the hurriedly opened door.

Heretical .. that's me !
 
fritzelhund said:
I am amazed at how a Safari can get by with just a perimeter frame...but then they do have metal not glass.

Larger sheet pressings were readily achieved after all the entire traction range was unitary and the roof of a Safari is a big steel pressing.
Perhaps they were intent on using new materials or lowering the centre of gravity, but these roofs leaked almost from new...there never was a D saloon without water stains in the headlining back corners..then the foam dies and droops and the brushed nylon sucks off after opening a door..usually on a wet day when the door seal gaskets actually work and a partial vacuum is created by the hurriedly opened door.

Heretical .. that's me !
Click to expand...

Safari is the heaviest roof, with the roof rack and lining fitted that I have ever tried to fit. Especially with fresh paint. What a job.

Heretic.....no. A reality smack in the gob is more like like it
 
Roger Wilkinson said:
Hey jack, you must have used particularly heavy paint.

Roger
Click to expand...

The wagon roof really hefty..... Maybe he put a few kilgrams of bog in the roof weighing it down even more :p

It's brave thing painting that big heavy roof off the car..... I'd proably have sat it in place (possibly chocked up on some cardboard) and painted it in place. I couldn't imagine lifting that big heavy panel into place with nice soft fresh paint on it.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Techbuy said:
I will experiment over the next weeks and see what works or not.

Appreciate the encouragement and helpful ideas.


Colin
Click to expand...

Well the weeks have slipped by and I finally gave it to a professional fibreglass restorer to fix it up. It came down to space and mess, working with glass can be quite messy and you do need room to work.

While I was over getting the parts back from Vapour blasting I was talking about the roof and fitting it back with Sikaflex 291 and was told "DO NOT" use Sikaflex 291 for your roof.
it seems it reacts with steel and once the roof is refitted you will never get it off again.
The recommendation was to use this 3M product.
"3M Auto Bedding & Glazing Compound 310Ml" it will seal the roof properly and will come apart easily as well as bonding well to the steel and rubber parts without causing any [FONT=&quot]deteriation of the steel.
I found it here.:
http://www.autolac.com.au/Consumable-Products/3M_6
Once the parts arrive from overseas I will get the roof back on and let you know what this stuff is like to work with.
Cheers
Colin:wink2:
[/FONT]
 
Techbuy said:
While I was over getting the parts back from Vapour blasting I was talking about the roof and fitting it back with Sikaflex 291 and was told "DO NOT" use Sikaflex 291 for your roof.
it seems it reacts with steel and once the roof is refitted you will never get it off again.[FONT=&quot]
Colin:wink2:
[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Bugger! Now you tell me :)

Except of course this "reacts with steel" bit seems a bit strange seeing as the Sikaflex is not in contact with the steel. The roof frame on mine was painted first. However, I am certainly open to better suggestions for the next roof I bond.

I did try to ask advice from adhesive manufacturers but the reply from Sika was pretty useless and 3M did not even reply.
 
michaelr said:
Bugger! Now you tell me :)

Except of course this "reacts with steel" bit seems a bit strange seeing as the Sikaflex is not in contact with the steel. The roof frame on mine was painted first. However, I am certainly open to better suggestions for the next roof I bond.

I did try to ask advice from adhesive manufacturers but the reply from Sika was pretty useless and 3M did not even reply.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be too concerned Michael, yours is a bonded roof (Techbuys is a bolted roof), the objective was to bond the roof and waterproof. I'd say you will have achieved your goal. The roof shouldn't need to be removed again for another twenty years or more - I'm still inclined toward using Sika 291 on mine. :wink2:

Cheers
Chris
 
Techbuy said:
I found it here.:
http://www.autolac.com.au/Consumable-Products/3M_6
Once the parts arrive from overseas I will get the roof back on and let you know what this stuff is like to work with.
Cheers
Colin:wink2:
[/FONT]
Click to expand...

I just went to that site and found that it is only a supplementary sealant.
"Non-hardening, pliable, water-resistant, medium-bodied sealer for sealing auto seams and between windshield rubber and car body. Can be used as a supplementary sealer for auto glass installation.
Remains permanently soft. Has non-sag consistency for vertical and overhead applications. Cleans up with dry rag."
I do not think that I would trust it to hold the roof securely!
When I was working for Auto Nursery, I restored a 1972 DS21 Pallas. We used a compound available from 'Wurths' It did the job perfectly and does not react with steel as do compounds that release acetylcylisic acid when curing.
I think this was the product http://www.wurth.com.au/catalogueview.asp?pdf=A03_0019.pdf
I remember that we were able to tool the outer edges of the sealant to a smooth finish so that the plastic dress strip fitted in beautifully and looked just like original.
Cheers Gerry:cheers:
 
Techbuy said:
Sorry Michael,
I only found out Friday Morning when I went to pick up the inlet manifolds for the DS23 from the Vapour blast treatment and got chatting to Dan over there about restoring cars as he has a Jag XK120 he is doing.

Colin
Click to expand...

I was only kidding... no blame intended.

It sounds like the 3M material is perfect for a bolted on roof. It would also be useful for fitting the windscreen it seems as you meed a blob of non hardening goop at each lower corner.

For a bonded roof a more adhesive product is needed and certainly the Sika 291 seems to do the job and was easy to apply and clean up.

Removal? Not my problem :D
 
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