HELP! My DS is driving me mad.

[CorneSoutAfrica]

Steve

I just saw this thread now, wow! You've got a way to make anyone understand exactly what to do! I think we have a walking Citroen Manual here

Cheers
Corne

 

[Citroenfan]

Thanks once again Steve. now that the carb is off I find that the throttle spindles ARE somewhat worn (I've seen worse) I'm hoping that I can leave that as is for the moment as I don't think I have time to sort that before Sunday (French Car Day here in Adelaide)
I am having trouble getting the air inlet open but will persevere.

Don

Hi Don,

On most of those carbs one will find a bit of play in the primary throttle spindle - typically not much or none in the secondary - unless it came off one of my cars . The only way to fix is to bush the carb body. The opening does not actually wear, in the normal sense of the word. What happens is that the bore in the casting actually gets stretched into an oval shape, over time, by the spindle. It is a design 'fault' with the carb. On SM's, for example, the 42DCNF's used have a small ball bearing on either side of the casting for the spindle to ride in. Prevents the problem from happening.

Steve

Steve

 

[tresbon]

Hi Don,

On most of those carbs one will find a bit of play in the primary throttle spindle - typically not much or none in the secondary - unless it came off one of my cars . The only way to fix is to bush the carb body. The opening does not actually wear, in the normal sense of the word. What happens is that the bore in the casting actually gets stretched into an oval shape, over time, by the spindle. It is a design 'fault' with the carb. On SM's, for example, the 42DCNF's used have a small ball bearing on either side of the casting for the spindle to ride in. Prevents the problem from happening.

Steve

Steve

Hi Steve. I have now got the carb back on, having made the bottom flange flat (definitely no air leaks there) and have cleaned the hole in the manifold air inlet. I adjusted the primary throttle stop as per your advice.
A quick play with the tuning (engine hot of course) has shown -

Less but still some hunting
less variation in rpm at idle but still some
I cannot get the idle rpm below about 1100rpm regardless of how I turn the secondary stop and mixture screws. Maybe I should have had the throttle spindles rebushed!
with accelerated idle screw firmly closed the RPM still drops when the brakes are applied BUT the engine does not die now (probably because the normal idle is so high?)
I will see what affect adjusting the accelerated idle screw has, in the morning.
I also have to reset the throttle spindle to the clutch re-engagement control link as I overlooked the advice in the W/S manual to "insert the pin A" ,whatever that is.
And I think that I have to adjust the clutch fork before doing the final carb tune.

I am learning all the time - thanks to guys like you!

Don

 

[Citroenfan]

Hi Steve. I have now got the carb back on, having made the bottom flange flat (definitely no air leaks there) and have cleaned the hole in the manifold air inlet. I adjusted the primary throttle stop as per your advice.
A quick play with the tuning (engine hot of course) has shown -

Less but still some hunting
less variation in rpm at idle but still some
I cannot get the idle rpm below about 1100rpm regardless of how I turn the secondary stop and mixture screws. Maybe I should have had the throttle spindles rebushed!
with accelerated idle screw firmly closed the RPM still drops when the brakes are applied BUT the engine does not die now (probably because the normal idle is so high?)
I will see what affect adjusting the accelerated idle screw has, in the morning.
I also have to reset the throttle spindle to the clutch re-engagement control link as I overlooked the advice in the W/S manual to "insert the pin A" ,whatever that is.
And I think that I have to adjust the clutch fork before doing the final carb tune.

I am learning all the time - thanks to guys like you!

Don

Hi Don,

OK -

You need to pre-set the CRC before connecting up the shafts via the nylon "flector" - the best explanation is found in 518 (Op. 314-1).

That you cannot get the idle speed down means that excess air/fuel is getting into the carb from somewhere. Either a throttle plate (primary or secondary) is not closing properly, there is still to much clearance between the primary throttle plate and its venturi, to much air is getting in via the accelerated idle screw, there is gas leakage into the carb via a leaking needle valve/seat or a combination of some or all of the above.

Is it possible that the carb on your car has been replaced by a later unit (post 72)? These have a added air bleed screw mounted on the engine side of the carb that was/is used to control CO/CO2.

At this point there is not much more I can help you with being some 12,000+ miles away

Steve

 

[Roger Wilkinson]

Hey Steve, maybe we could all chip in and bring you over for a masterclass.

Roger

 

[Citroenfan]

Hey Steve, maybe we could all chip in and bring you over for a masterclass.

Roger

Masterclass???? Frankly I really am better at letting you know or explaining how NOT to do things in a lot of cases . The real problem, at least for me, is that US did not get a lot of the various models the rest of the work saw. And for those 'down under' some of what you got were fairly unique, from what I have picked up from Richo. But that said, the underlying design principals were the same all the cars, regardless of market.

Steve

Steve

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Hey Steve, maybe we could all chip in and bring you over for a masterclass.

Roger

You can't have him, he's ours. So there. {stomps foot saucily} :roflmao:

 

[donat]

I'm pledging $100 for Steve's Aussie Masterclass

 

[addo]

Is that to freight him to Cit-In?

 

[donat]

Is that to freight him to Cit-In?

I think that's what we've all decided upon. Maybe Daffy and Hotrodelectric can also fit in the crate so we can have a Frog-in as well.

 

[tresbon]

Hi Don,

OK -

You need to pre-set the CRC before connecting up the shafts via the nylon "flector" - the best explanation is found in 518 (Op. 314-1).

That you cannot get the idle speed down means that excess air/fuel is getting into the carb from somewhere. Either a throttle plate (primary or secondary) is not closing properly, there is still to much clearance between the primary throttle plate and its venturi, to much air is getting in via the accelerated idle screw, there is gas leakage into the carb via a leaking needle valve/seat or a combination of some or all of the above.

Is it possible that the carb on your car has been replaced by a later unit (post 72)? These have a added air bleed screw mounted on the engine side of the carb that was/is used to control CO/CO2.

At this point there is not much more I can help you with being some 12,000+ miles away

Steve

Hi Steve. Everything seemed to come together today. The normal (accelerared) idling is higher than specified but seems OK. and the idle under brakes seems OK, with no stalling. So I am reasonably happy. Have been for a short run and all seems OK. Tomorrow I will do a longer trip, up the hill, to make sure the cooling is still OK.

The chances of getting to the French Car Day on Sunday are improving (it's only about 30kms of flat running!)

Many thanks for your invaluable input. I may need some advice soon on why the lights on the car. especially at idle fluctuate in intensity. I don't remember this happening before but I have never driven this car a tnight so far.

regards, Don

 

[Hotrodelectric]

I think that's what we've all decided upon. Maybe Daffy and Hotrodelectric can also fit in the crate so we can have a Frog-in as well.

Donat, the sentiment is appreciated, and I would love to see a little of Australia, but getting Daffy and I into a crate with Citroenfan would by the end of the journey make a Tasmanian Devil look tame and adorable. :roflmao:

On the plus side, there wouldn't be any of our BS standing in line for hours to be irradiated and groped to get on a plane, so there's that.

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Many thanks for your invaluable input. I may need some advice soon on why the lights on the car. especially at idle fluctuate in intensity. I don't remember this happening before but I have never driven this car a tnight so far.

regards, Don

Of course, check all connections and grounds first, but the most likely cause is the voltage regulator. I take it your alternator is still the original one? You can fit a later Ford electronic one inside the original can, but it takes a couple hours of careful work.

 

[daffyduck]

I think that's what we've all decided upon. Maybe Daffy and Hotrodelectric can also fit in the crate so we can have a Frog-in as well.

Buy the H van from Area 52 and we can all travel down in that.

 

[Citroenfan]

Hi Steve. Everything seemed to come together today. The normal (accelerared) idling is higher than specified but seems OK. and the idle under brakes seems OK, with no stalling. So I am reasonably happy. Have been for a short run and all seems OK. Tomorrow I will do a longer trip, up the hill, to make sure the cooling is still OK.

The chances of getting to the French Car Day on Sunday are improving (it's only about 30kms of flat running!)

Many thanks for your invaluable input. I may need some advice soon on why the lights on the car. especially at idle fluctuate in intensity. I don't remember this happening before but I have never driven this car a tnight so far.

regards, Don

If the 'low idle' (brakes applied) is good you adjust the accelerated idle with the large brass aux air bleed screw on the carb bottom. Normally one turns that screw in until it is seated - adjust the low idle speed/mixture. Once that is done you apply the brakes firmly to ensure that the idle does not drop any further (sometimes that bleed screw will not seat properly). Then you adjust the high idle by turning that air bleed CCW with the brakes off. Once set you then apply the brakes firmly again to make sure that the low idle adjustment holds.

 

[Citroenfan]

I think that's what we've all decided upon. Maybe Daffy and Hotrodelectric can also fit in the crate so we can have a Frog-in as well.

Sort of reminds me of the really old joke from my grade school days (and no I am not saying exactly when) -

"Mommy - why do I have to go to Europe?" _ "Shut up and get back in that Care package"..............

 

[richo]

Of course, check all connections and grounds first, but the most likely cause is the voltage regulator. I take it your alternator is still the original one? You can fit a later Ford electronic one inside the original can, but it takes a couple hours of careful work.

Rod, Those Ford regulators are not readily available in Australia.
The Bosch RE55 (electronic regulator) is considered the cheap arse way out.

A better alternator is the way to go.

r

 

[Greg C]

Pulsating lights at idle is normal for old Citroens. Both my CXs did it, fitting an electronic regulator fixed it. Mechanical regulators can't handle the steep output curve of an alternator around idle speed

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Rod, Those Ford regulators are not readily available in Australia.
The Bosch RE55 (electronic regulator) is considered the cheap arse way out.

A better alternator is the way to go.

r

Sorry 'bout that, Richo. Much like the RE55 is virtually unknown in the US. What little I know of it came from internet searches, and you supplied me with one, which I still have and am grateful for. From what I see here, a Bosch alt is the common swap.

I know the Delcotron is almost as unknown there, but wasn't it you who came up with a way to beautifully machine those Lecee-Neville-to-Delcotron front carrier plates?

 

[tresbon]

Pulsating lights at idle is normal for old Citroens. Both my CXs did it, fitting an electronic regulator fixed it. Mechanical regulators can't handle the steep output curve of an alternator around idle speed

Ah, but my car already has an electronic regulator, which has only 2 connections, not the normal 3. maybe that is why the ignition light on the dash does not work.

Don